Braided Brake Lines

[Chriss]

Hey all,

I can't find any of the hundreds of threads about braided brake lines, the fittings, and which ones are a really bad idea?

I've got a Goodridge brake line here, ready to swap over, but not sure if I should or not, because I remember something about dissimilar metal corrosion.

Thanks in advance.
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TheShaggyDA: I've got 3 or 4 pairs that predate my wife, so at least 11.5 years old.

[The Tot]

Chances are somebody will answer in the time i come up with this.

You're looking to have stainless steel fittings, banjos and connections with the hoses and NOT alloy or plated.

It's called galvanic corrosion or bi-metallic corrosion. It occurs between two eletrochemically dissimilar materials (metals specifically) with a relatively large potential difference between two (potential measured against Standard Hydrogen Electrode). Either way, you have aluminium alloy and more noble steel. In this case, the alloy reacts in the galvanic cell and eventually fails. Failure occurs where there is a conductive electrolyte completing the circuit between the two metals... electrolyte being water which is especially excacerbated during winter when the water has dissolved chloride ions from the road salts.

Suffice to say, best to get braided hoses with stainless steel fittings since the shrouds themselves are stainless. I forgot the potential difference between stainless and zinc, but you're much better off with Stainless for road jobbies. The alloys are "race use only" since for disclaimer purposes. They're rarely subjected to road salts and most race teams replace their lines frequently... well way before the onset of corrosion. Hope this helps. (I'm kinda a qualified metallurgist/materials engineer now so it may sound a bit geeky).

At the end of the day, the braking performace improvement will come from the fact that you've got new lines which are thoroughly bled. My blade's nissins felt like hitting a brick wall once I fitted some HELs.
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The Tot 2019 Z1000SX - 2007 R1
Never argue with autism

[stinkwheel]

Yes. Avoid alloy. Otherwise ok.

I personally preferr mild steel (either cadmium or chrome plated) because it is stronger and less brittle than stainless.
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[The Tot]

Wouldn't a badly controlled chromium plating process result in hydrogen embrittlement anyways? I remember looking through very badly embrittled chrome plated samples through the Scanning Electron Microscope.

Chrome bling might not be too smart an idea. Engineering chrome is a different matter. It's all a case of pre-treatment methods and stuff.

Please feel free to shut me up since I'm all academia (need to be put to place by a guy who's got industrial experience)
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The Tot 2019 Z1000SX - 2007 R1
Never argue with autism

[stinkwheel]

[The Tot]

Yeah, engineering chrome has a conversion coating, usually chromate, applied to effectively "key" they surface.

Anyhoo, there was some website who said that they approve the use of billet aluminium alloy fittings with their stainless steel lines. I believe it's this video link below.

Note my comment which just got sniffed at.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdAmdtpOjo0&feature=channel_page

Missed the point completely. I was referring the point where the braid joins the banjo - the eyelet or watever it's appropriately called. THAT's what you DON'T want to unknowingly sell to your customers.
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The Tot 2019 Z1000SX - 2007 R1
Never argue with autism

[stinkwheel]

Well, take a look at the following pictures which keith usually posts and make up your own mind.
https://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/TempPicture/mikesBrakes.jpg
https://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/TempPicture/HelensBrakes.jpg

The banjo doesn't make contact with the alloy calliper or the banjo bolt in any case, there are two copper washers in the way. As you say, the danger point is where the steel brake line meets the alloy fitting.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[jay12329]

Goodridge and hel good
Most others i've seen bad

HTH
J

[Chriss]

Is there a way to tell what connectors mine use, or because it's Goodridge, it's safe to use?
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TheShaggyDA: I've got 3 or 4 pairs that predate my wife, so at least 11.5 years old.

[WildGoose]

I think one of those pics may have been my old CBR250.

I remember it had tarty hoses and a similar problem was noted (after I sold it to mike judging by the name of the file).

So yeh, those tarty hoses arent so good for long term use on British roads.
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So in other words, he stopped you for being flagrantly in posession of a motorcycle in direct contravention of the Hippies, Darkies and People Whose Face I Don't Like The Look of (Police Powers) Act. 1976

[Kickstart]

Hi

Yep, those are alloy fittings and both Goodridge ones I think. Top one is Mikes CBR250, which was Gooses before. Think they were about 2.5 years old when they failed like that (about 3 days before Mike was about to go touring round Europe).

Problem appears to be that when assembled the braiding scratches off some of the protective anodising and allows corrosion to start. As they seem to crack I am not sure if the build up of corrosion pushes out on the olive eventually causing the crack.

All the best

Keith
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Traxpics, track day and racing photographs - Bimota Forum - Bike performance / thrust graphs for choosing gearing

[Chriss]

So I'm best ditching these in case they're the wrong fitting?
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TheShaggyDA: I've got 3 or 4 pairs that predate my wife, so at least 11.5 years old.

[Kickstart]

Hi

Try a magnet on it. If it sticks then you know it is steel. If not it could still be stainless steel (or titanium). First check is the finish. Most of the time alloy fittings are dodgy red or blue coloured.

All the best

Keith
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Traxpics, track day and racing photographs - Bimota Forum - Bike performance / thrust graphs for choosing gearing

[Chriss]

Silver in finish, and magnetic, so that means it's safe, since it's steel on steel?
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TheShaggyDA: I've got 3 or 4 pairs that predate my wife, so at least 11.5 years old.

[Kickstart]

Hi

Sounds likely to be cadmium plated fittings (possibly chrome finished ones). Should be fine.

All the best

Keith
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Traxpics, track day and racing photographs - Bimota Forum - Bike performance / thrust graphs for choosing gearing

[swiftb]

Sorry to bump a thread thats kind of finished but rather this than start a new one on a similar topic.
Im looking at upgrading my front lines to goodridge whilst I have my bike stripped down.
Im a bit confused however as the original lines are one complete unit from the master cylinder, down to a seperation union then down to each individual caliper.
Reading up on the Goodridge (and other brands) there are two seperate lines to the m/c.
Is it simply a case of 'piggybacking' the two banjos next to each other with a longer bolt into the m/c or am i missing something here?
Pics would be great if anyone has upgraded a similar setup

cheers

[Kickstart]

Hi

The cheap kits do use 2 lines from the master cylinder, one directly to each caliper. Marketing wise they call this race style. The kits should come with replacement banjo bolts anyway, with a double length one for the top.

Suspect the only real benefit of these kits over a full 3 line set is cost (the lines themselves are cheap, it is the ends that are the expensive bits). For race use there are some odd ACU rules I think that do not allow joins in the line below the bottom yoke, hence seperate lines for race use.

All the best

Keith
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Traxpics, track day and racing photographs - Bimota Forum - Bike performance / thrust graphs for choosing gearing

[swiftb]

Cheers Keith that helps a lot. Guess il get some ordered then