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calyx
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PostPosted: 20:26 - 12 Oct 2009    Post subject: Is this BS? Reply with quote

Found this today;

https://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130335638737

Anyone has experience with alternator tuning?

Cheers.
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Flip
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PostPosted: 20:31 - 12 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't trust it.
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 20:32 - 12 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ask yourself this question: If there was some magic way to make engines more efficient, don't you think that Motorcycle and car manufacturers would have done it already?

The thing is... Engine tuning is hard. Car and motorcycle manufacturers know what they are doing. This means that any performance gain is likely to be expensive, involve making the car or motorcycle illegal in some way (IE loud exhaust) or have reliability implications.

If there was an easy way to make any car or bike faster by doing something to the alternator, I'm certain that engineers in Hammatsu or Okinawa or Munich or Bologna would have done something about it by now.

Snake oil. If you can't see that then you're either stupid or need to learn more about engines.
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 20:34 - 12 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

Yes, BS.

The spark plugs are fed current from the coils, probably at at least 40000 volts.

All the best

Keith
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Wafer_Thin_Ham
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PostPosted: 20:35 - 12 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Certainly looks like BS to me. Thumbs Up

Could always do a back to back dyno run if you fancy it. It's only £20 afterall.

If it works you'd see a power increase. More complete combustion would mean more power produced, so you can measure it.
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Noxious89123
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PostPosted: 20:59 - 12 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is at the bottom of that ad...

https://www013.upp.so-net.ne.jp/ebay/pic/board.jpg

Nuff said I think, pretty much sums up that entire page....
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The Shaggy D.A.
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PostPosted: 21:00 - 12 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Probably just a capacitor. You can eliminate the battery with one, and it will give better running if you've got an old bike with a knackered battery, but if your setup is already running the bike ok it won't make a difference.

[edit] with the caveat that you have a kick start and none of that new fangled computermabob or fuel injection jiggery pokery nonsense.
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Last edited by The Shaggy D.A. on 21:14 - 12 Oct 2009; edited 1 time in total
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The Artist
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PostPosted: 21:06 - 12 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

As well as that piece of shite, they also sell this

Another Ebay Link


Laughing Laughing
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MattHirst
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PostPosted: 21:18 - 12 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's a flux capacitor Shocked
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Flip
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PostPosted: 21:19 - 12 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Noxious89123 wrote:
This is at the bottom of that ad...

https://www013.upp.so-net.ne.jp/ebay/pic/board.jpg


I'm ordering two for my bike as we speak. Cool Very Happy Shocked Cool Razz
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Paulington
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PostPosted: 23:09 - 12 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Noxious89123 wrote:
This is at the bottom of that ad...

https://www013.upp.so-net.ne.jp/ebay/pic/board.jpg

Nuff said I think, pretty much sums up that entire page....

+20mph top speed from the extra thrust the propellers generate.

Also makes your car amphibious! Mr. Green.
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baldy
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PostPosted: 23:35 - 12 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doesn't the coils get power from a separate part of the stator windings that is separate to the battery? Also, how can something that couples to the battery only make any difference to the ignition system?

It's like that thing that was on ebay that plugged into a lighter socket and made your car faster. Every one knows that one of those computer fan super chargers work the best. Laughing

Someone should buy one, fit it and get their bike dyno'd. I can bet that it will do absolutely nothing apart from drain the battery when not in use.

Quote:
Hi

Yes, BS.

The spark plugs are fed current from the coils, probably at at least 40000 volts.

All the best

Keith


Doesn't the stator make something like 40 odd volts which is then limited to 12 and the fed to the battery? And doesn't the feed to the coils come directly from the stator which is boosted to silly amounts? (on most bikes) As long as the engine is turning there will be silly voltages at the HT end.

I wonder if they sell one for a bike with no battery? If i fit one i might gain 10bhp.

I think they are going to need that money back guarantee when people realise that it is utter tosh.
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baldy
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PostPosted: 23:37 - 12 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Plus the coils are fed with ac voltage i think, which would probably fry that little plastic tube.
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calyx
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PostPosted: 00:11 - 13 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flux capacitor is fluxing Shocked
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 00:40 - 13 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

baldy wrote:
Plus the coils are fed with ac voltage i think, which would probably fry that little plastic tube.


Most bikes the coils are just fed normal DC from the battery.

The stator does generate a large AC voltage (40~50v ac wouldn't be unusual), which the rectifier turns to DC and the regulator turns down towards 12v.

All the best

Keith
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baldy
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PostPosted: 02:22 - 13 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

But a lot of smaller bikes can run without a battery or a charging system, like my xr400.

I can't understand the logic behind this gadget, wouldn't it just be shorting the battery out?

How can it do anything when it is only connected to the battery and the only possible thing it can do is short it?
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Alexio
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PostPosted: 04:00 - 13 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

What I'm the most confused about is this "unstable ignition spark" business. Surely if a spark plug sparks... it sparks. If it causes just a few atoms to combust it has started what is a runaway exothermic chain reaction until all fuel has been burned? So how the hell would a spark with possibly slightly less energy (but remember, still a spark) affect compression? I think what they mean by this is that the explosion will start off and happen more slowly with a smaller spark........


That... doesn't sound right?

And no, it wouldn't short the battery... it would only do that if this device was the path of least resistance. It isn't, so while some electrons will flow through it, normal function is maintained. However, I would imagine that when it comes to needing to draw more power, it would be there to provide it.
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Fortuna
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PostPosted: 04:21 - 13 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

baldy wrote:
But a lot of smaller bikes can run without a battery or a charging system, like my xr400.

I can't understand the logic behind this gadget, wouldn't it just be shorting the battery out?

How can it do anything when it is only connected to the battery and the only possible thing it can do is short it?

Alot of off roaders run a total loss system. An important point is that they are designed that way.
Some people also seem to be confusing a stator coil with a pickup coil.
The stator is a generator that (usually) supplies AC voltage to the regulator/rectifier and from there to the rest of the bike at the charging DC usually about 13.4 volts. This is across the whole bike not just the battery, so when the bike is running your lights, horn and ignition system etc actually run at 13.4v and not 12v.

The pickup is a small winding that passes a magnet that induces current every time it passes it, usually connected somewhere that spins the same as the crank (or the end of it).
This current then transfers to the coil causing the secondary windings to spark. It's actually the on-off action that induces the secondary windings into firing.
Fundamentally it's similar to contacts but without moving parts or wear.

Conclusion. Those things are no more than a voltage balancer and you could probably do the same with a capacitor.
Would it make a noticable difference? No. I don't think so.
I do know what does though. Smile
You can have a pickup made that throws out more voltage, but it can burn it out.
The best way is high output coils. You will be replacing spark plugs often though as again they burn out.
This is done by altering the primary to secondary winding ratio. Say it's a ratio of 30/3000, that means that if 12v is put on the primary then 1200 is output to the plug (crude example and not supposed to be accurate).
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iooi
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PostPosted: 08:22 - 13 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alexio wrote:
What I'm the most confused about is this "unstable ignition spark" business. Surely if a spark plug sparks... it sparks. .


Yes, but a stronger spark gives better combustion.

Think why won't a bike start with a knackered old plug that still sparks, but will when you put a new one in.

Still a waste of money anyway.
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 09:08 - 13 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fortuna wrote:
The pickup is a small winding that passes a magnet that induces current every time it passes it, usually connected somewhere that spins the same as the crank (or the end of it).
This current then transfers to the coil causing the secondary windings to spark. It's actually the on-off action that induces the secondary windings into firing.


Very few larger bikes will use a setup like that. Certainly not the ones mentioned in the advert.

Fortuna wrote:
Conclusion. Those things are no more than a voltage balancer and you could probably do the same with a capacitor.


I suspect that it all it really is.

All the best

Keith
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Fortuna
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PostPosted: 02:10 - 14 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Didn't want to confuse him by throwing CDi's into the equation. My main point was about the pickup which nearly all big bikes do have.
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 11:32 - 14 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's a large capacitor.

More commonly seen on RC car batteries. The idea behind it is actually sound as I understand it but virtually useless in practice on an IC vehicle.

Basically the capacitor is there for high power surges. In theory if you throttle on really hard especially with a fuel injected vehicle the battery 'may' not be able to supply power quick enough reducing initial thrust. In this instance the capacitor (if charged) will give the extra power needed to power everything. In practice this doesn't really affect anything and definitely wouldn't give any more peak BHP.
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 19:37 - 14 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fortuna wrote:
Didn't want to confuse him by throwing CDi's into the equation. My main point was about the pickup which nearly all big bikes do have.


Fair enough although could say the same unncessary confusion applies to the pickup coil. The small voltage change to the pickup coil would make no difference to the coil voltage.

All the best

Keith
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