IS THE LAW TO LENIENT?

[lostboy]

We now live in a society where kids run around with knives and guns and mob rule runs areas, is this a natural progression of society? or do you think that a tougher stance on those who break the law would discourage others from committing offences?

The sentence that can now be handed to people carrying a knife is now up to 4 years however how often do you hear of anyone sentenced to this for carrying the said weapon without causing injury?

Mobs of teens now roam the streets with a lack of total disrespect in certain areas and the police seem either unable or unwilling to act.

It is a fact that in todays society that no matter how much you juggle the figures drug use is on the rise and the threat of violence seems more present than ever. Yes the prisons are overcrowded but the law is now considered a joke and everyone cries breach of human rights far too quickly. The police seem powerless to make any sort of real impact on the criminal fraternity and as a figure of authority seem to be less respected than ever.

The law should be representative of the people but more and more these days people feel let down by an outdated system that no longer is willing to use the power it is given.

On the flipside of this we also now live in a society of kids having kids, people wanting what they can get with the least possible effort and life being cheaper than a crossed word.

I'd appreciate your vote and your opinion if you'd like to leave either.
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Never invite a vampire into your house you silly boy!

[Kickstart]

Hi

Not sure that their is a direct yes / no answer.

The law has come into disrepute. To a large extent I think this is down to things like 4 years sentences for carrying a knife, clamping down on something easy get a conviction rather than limiting it to those who are missusing a knife. Doesn't only apply to knives, but to driving offences, drugs, etc.

Add in the perception that those who defend themselves will be the ones hauled up while those who attacked will get let off, and the way laws are misused and we have a pretty confused message.

My feeling is that the laws should be fairly rigid, but also fairly small in scope. What we have now is flexible laws and so many of them it would be a full time job to try and keep up with new ones coming out.

All the best

Keith
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[lostboy]

my stance would be for paedos and thugs who kick people to death to meet the victims families in a room for 10 minutes with no comebacks to the family, hope this gives you a rough idea of my stance.

I just didn't want to influence anyones answer with my original statement.
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Never invite a vampire into your house you silly boy!

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[GhostRider]

Firstly I think that a lot of the problems with the youth of today are due to degenerate parenting, kids have no respect for anything or anyone. My personal view is that at the point where a kid leaves school, they have, say, 8 weeks to either be enrolled in college, working a job or in an apprenticeship.

Failing that they are automatically put into national service for 2 years where they will learn a trade and retake any qualifications they lack and/or require. If this means 2 years of a drill Sargent sticking their boot up their arse then so be it, with a bit of luck they will come out of it with some fucking respect for the world around them and an atttude to do something productive with their lives instead of smoking weed and collecting dole cheques all day.

As for policing, I think it's up to a given community to help themselves and each other. The police largely protect the criminals these days, whether they mean to or not. Sentences are to lenient and whatever sentence is given divide it by 5 and you might be closer to the real time that will be served.

To that end I'm fond of the idea of the community policing themselves, unbeknowest to the police. I have a vision of a group of select individuals who don balaclavas and deal out appropriate punishments to perpetrators of other peoples misery. Everyone keeps it secret, provides alibis for each other when necessary, I imagine it wouldn't take long before people thought twice about getting up to any scallywag behaviour.

Oh I know it's a long shot and far too ' in a perfect world' - esque, but everyones allowed to have a vision.

GhostRider
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I have all the characteristics of a human being: blood, flesh, skin, hair; but not a single, clear, identifiable emotion, except for greed and disgust. Something horrible is happening inside of me and I don't know why. My nightly bloodlust has overflown into my days. I feel lethal, on the verge of frenzy. I think my mask of sanity is about to slip.

[rhone81]

Don't know if the law is too harsh or too lenient. Will 4 years or 7 years in jail for assaulting someone really matter to an 18 year old who feels that he has been disrespected? In the heat of the moment when he lashes out with a blade is he considering the consequences bothe to himself and his victim?

The problem stems from a lack of moral leadership from parents, politicians and society.

I'm not abdicating personal responsibility but kids are influenced by a variety of factors and I don't agree with continuing the circle of violence as a solution.

Millions of people who are otherwise upstanding, law-abiding people have been abused by the system that routinely targets those with the ability to pay rather than those deserving of punishment. This can only contribute to a continued lack of respect for the law.

[rhone81]

[Didge]

[Skudd]

[Didge]

[Hetzer]

[Dom]

BCF - Speak Your Brains.
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Photos and that

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[pa_broon74]

Not sure it can be distilled into a simple yes or no.

It's a vicious circle though, if the police were to crack down they'd face criticism from two angles, the bleeding heart liberals from the left and the civil rights crowd, they can't win. Also, there is so much paper work involved and time needed to ensure a case even gets to court never mind a conviction being obtained. But you need all that paper work and due process to ensure your working within civil rights law and not offending anyones delicate sensibilities.

I'll admit to being a bit of a lefty (not a massive one mind...) I think in terms of the feral minority of kids; they think they're untouchable. But I also think it's a bit of a false image portrayed by the press to sell papers, it is still a small minority of youths who behave this way. (Theres a somewhat bourgious thing on youtube done by the RNLI about decent youths in society, it's a bit middle class and whiffs slightly of public school, but it illustrates the point nicely. No link though, I'm at work.)

I've had a long standing theory about this and it starts at the very top of the pile. Never mind what thatcher did, that was so long ago it no longer really counts, look at what the new labour experiment has done, it was built entirely on smoke and mirrors, everything got spun out to the best light and eventually all the chickens came home to roost (well before the so-called financial crash.)

Because of it, we all became horribly cynical about everything, we all started thinking "Yeah right then!" when ever the government came out with a new sloganised policy. That inevitably filtered down the generations and now we have kids who are hard nosed little Napoleons who think they have a right to everything with out having first earned it, same with a lot of adults.

We've all become jaded so we've pulled up the draw bridge and in some cases, left the kids outside.

The justice system is actually quite robust in terms of fairness in sentencing, its the guidance on sentencing sent down by the politico's that mess' it all up, it's not really based on need but more on what can be afforded or what will get votes. (On knee jerk law-making for example: I'd break my foot before tiring of kicking the arse of those types of knee jerk do-gooders.)

A judge could put a person in jail for 4 years for carrying a knife, but the appeal would be quick smart for it to be lowered as it didn't follow sentencing guidelines.

I agree with hetzer up to a point. I wouldn't carry a knife for self-defence though, I'm not sure it's a good idea. Hard to explain, except to say it would escalate an already precarious situation, if you're going to get stabbed, your having a knife (I don't think) would make any difference. I think a knife if being used as a weapon is purely an offensive item, it can't be used in self-defence.

Where I do agree though is in carrying a knife for general use, it used to be that if you had a knife about your person the police had to prove you were up to no good. Now you have to prove you weren't, how the hell would you do that. I'm off this weekend on an overnight hike for example and I'll probably have a machete with me. Even although we'll be in the middle of no where in a forest, if the police were to stop me I could be prosecuted. I know a person who was prosecuted for having a wall paper stripper in his pocket from work, in his works clothes, covered in paint and wall paper paste but the police still went for the prosecution, (he was eventually admonished.)

I do tend to think sentencing should be harsher though in general terms, but it needs to be prescribed with a bit of common sense and wisdom.


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Didn't catch anything.

[GhostRider]

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[The Shaggy D.A.]

[pa_broon74]

I think you need to make the distinction between what is a defensive weapon and what is just offensive.

A knife at best is a deterrant, it's not a defensive weapon because, literally, you can't use it to defend yourself. The whole point about self defence is that it's reasonable and done with little or no fore-thought or malice.

So you're ok on the malice but the preplanning is definitely there unless, and this is the caveat; you can prove you had the knife about your person for peaceful purposes. That takes me back to what I was saying before, if you had been away camping or fishing and had a swiss army knife and found yourself in a situation; where do you stand with the law?

I wouldn't carry a knife normally, but I still do if I'm off walking or camping etc. The have been times when I'd have felt more comfortable with an extendable baton though, atleast it can be used to keep potential attackers at a distance.


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Didn't catch anything.

[Tarmacsurfer]

A knife isn't a particularly defensive weapon. Whilst it can be used to intimidate (butterfly knives are particularly good for this, plus they give the option of being used as a yawara if striking with them closed) it's not really a tool to hold a physical confrontation at bay.

[Mister James]

[pa_broon74]

It is an issue for sure.

But I still think it's played up for the purposes of selling newspapers, the exageration of a problem for the government to generate sloganised policies about so they appear to be 'doing something' and the fuelling of a general prejudice against a section of society

If the press talked about any other section of society in the same terms it talk about youth, there'd be complaints aplenty.


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Didn't catch anything.

[Kickstart]

[Hetzer]

All I'm going to say is when I've pulled knives in the past it's stopped the other fvckers from using theirs. And stopped them from anything else they were after.

But I guess I should have pulled a copper instead.

I don't give a flying fvck what the 'law' says, that contemptible load of old bollocks that it is. My body, my person, my property, my fvcking business, I'll carry whatever the fvck I please, and if the 'law' doesn't like it it'll have to catch me first. And then whatever penalty I have to pay will be taken out of state-property at least ten-fold.

No CUNT is going to dictate to me what I can and cannot have in MY fucking pockets.
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"There's the horizon! Ride hard, ride fast and cut down all who stand in your way!"

[Mister James]