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chillpill
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PostPosted: 13:59 - 08 Nov 2009    Post subject: battery problems Reply with quote

ive got a new battery and its reading 18volts on the multimeter wich is very wierd and theres no power to the bike , lights ignition etc etc , im just wondering if my multimeters fucked or its the battery , i cant make any sense of it myself

cheers
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chillpill
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PostPosted: 17:44 - 08 Nov 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

anybody have any ideas ????
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Bat
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PostPosted: 18:00 - 08 Nov 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi mate,

Does it give the same reading when connected to the bike and when disconnected?
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Blue_SV650S
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PostPosted: 18:24 - 08 Nov 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Try the multimeter on a 1.5v AA cell ...

But it sounds like you have bought a dud battery to me!!

Presuming it is a sealed battery, how long did you leave the acid to soak into the matting before charging or using it?
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chillpill
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PostPosted: 23:43 - 08 Nov 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah it gives the same reading both on and off the bike

thats a brilliantly simple idea blue ill give it a go tomorrow Thumbs Up, after filling the battery with acid i let it stand for half an hour before testing it
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Blue_SV650S
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PostPosted: 12:00 - 09 Nov 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

chillpill wrote:
yeah it gives the same reading both on and off the bike

thats a brilliantly simple idea blue ill give it a go tomorrow Thumbs Up, after filling the battery with acid i let it stand for half an hour before testing it


Was it a chepo battery?

Sounds like you have been unlucky and got a pup!! Sad
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Gareth
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PostPosted: 12:46 - 09 Nov 2009    Post subject: Battery Faulty Reply with quote

I would take the battery back if you can. Explain whats wrong. I bought a new battery for my bike and filled it with acid water. Soon after i left it on charge for 3 hours or so have you tried that. try a new battery, like others have said you could have had a dud battery. cheers hope you can sort it. Gareth
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Finglonga
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PostPosted: 13:45 - 09 Nov 2009    Post subject: Re: battery problems Reply with quote

chillpill wrote:
i've got a new battery and its reading 18volts on the multimeter which is very weird and there's no power to the bike , lights ignition etc etc , im just wondering if my multimeter's fucked or its the battery , i cant make any sense of it myself

cheers


That is not right at all or your multimeter is reading wrong, as said sounds like a duff battery.
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Raffles
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PostPosted: 13:47 - 09 Nov 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wet-cell batteries normally knock out 2 volts per cell. How many cells does this battery have?
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finpos
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PostPosted: 15:47 - 09 Nov 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

meter out of calibration, user error or you have a battery full of magic and inadvertently solved the world's power problems and beaten some of the best scientists in the field! I can not recommend you take it back to the shop with the 18V story until you have determined which of the above is true. Unless you like being mocked.
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Blue_SV650S
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PostPosted: 17:08 - 09 Nov 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

finpos wrote:
meter out of calibration, user error or you have a battery full of magic and inadvertently solved the world's power problems and beaten some of the best scientists in the field! I can not recommend you take it back to the shop with the 18V story until you have determined which of the above is true. Unless you like being mocked.


No need to be a c0ck about it!!! Rolling Eyes

He does need to check his meter, but its probably just a short between some of the plates in one (or more) cells. My guess is the separator material is broken inside and therefore it is running some of the plates in series, not parallel. Hence it having good/high voltage but it has no 'punch'.

It is perfectly feasible for a faulty battery to be producing good/excessive voltage.
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chillpill
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PostPosted: 18:05 - 09 Nov 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

yo cheers for the replies all

i checked the reading against a meter i borrowed from work and it gave a healthy 12.7volts Mr. Green , checked the fuse on the bike after that and it was blown so replaced it with a new one wich the previous owner had smartly stashed in the fuse case , happy days

next question , do i tink about why that fuse was blown or do i go by the .. if it aint broke dont fix it rule lol , ive got to be honest im swayin towards number two Thinking
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finpos
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PostPosted: 18:12 - 09 Nov 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

12.75V? Thank goodness to laws governing conversion of energy have not been rent asunder.

Not much to be done about the fuse until it blows again, always worth checking all the electrical gubbins, honking the horn etc. Often it's a seized radiator fan that's makes it go.

f.
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Blue_SV650S
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PostPosted: 21:08 - 09 Nov 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

finpos wrote:
12.75V? Thank goodness to laws governing conversion of energy have not been rent asunder.
f.


Turns out it was a dodgy reading, but go on then ... how would this have been the case even at 18v? Thinking
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finpos
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PostPosted: 00:43 - 10 Nov 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

He'd simply never have got 18V out of the battery. Each lead/acid cell working at an optimum will give ~2.1V, the battery puts 6 of these in series (you've got that series/parallel mixed up, btw) giving slightly more than 12V (2.1+2.1+2.1+2.1+2.1+2.1). Shorting a cell looses you 2.1V - it doesn't add it. That's the way it's manufactured and is the very definition of the word "battery". It is conceivable that the royal mail dropped the thing in such a way that it created an additional 3 cells carefully linked in series with the existing 6, you never know.

f.
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Blue_SV650S
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PostPosted: 13:28 - 10 Nov 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

finpos wrote:
He'd simply never have got 18V out of the battery. Each lead/acid cell working at an optimum will give ~2.1V, the battery puts 6 of these in series (you've got that series/parallel mixed up, btw) giving slightly more than 12V (2.1+2.1+2.1+2.1+2.1+2.1). Shorting a cell looses you 2.1V - it doesn't add it. That's the way it's manufactured and is the very definition of the word "battery". It is conceivable that the royal mail dropped the thing in such a way that it created an additional 3 cells carefully linked in series with the existing 6, you never know.

f.


You are missing the point, what is in each 'cell' .. i.e. how is each cell constructed?

It is a number of plates. To be able to get the transfer of energy required to give a good current, you need lots of surface area, so each cell has a number of plates. Now I presume these plates (which are numerous in each CELL) produce the 2.1v each? and are connected in parallel to provide the same 2.1v, but with more 'punch' as it is from say 5 plates, not one. These cells are then connected in series to make the overall 12v ish.

However, my rationale is that if some of these plates are shorted such that they are acting in series WITHIN A CELL, then you could get >2.1v. Clearly the more that are done in this way, the higher the nominal voltage.

So although it wasn't the case this time, if my rationale is correct, I could see how you possibly have a faulty 12v battery that is showing 18v. (Its going to fall flat on its face under load mind you).
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finpos
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PostPosted: 15:06 - 10 Nov 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, each cell, regardless of the number of plates it contains, gives you 2.1V and there are 6 of those. The idea that you can give it a good shake and re-arrange the connections between the plates to produce more, smaller cells is ludicrous enough, for me at least, to dismiss it.
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Blue_SV650S
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PostPosted: 16:16 - 10 Nov 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

finpos wrote:
No, each cell, regardless of the number of plates it contains, gives you 2.1V and there are 6 of those.


er .... I don't think you are listening (reading) properly are you?! Rolling Eyes

finpos wrote:
The idea that you can give it a good shake and re-arrange the connections between the plates to produce more, smaller cells is ludicrous enough, for me at least, to dismiss it.



And that too ... who said anything about 'a good shake' causing the problem*??? Confused

I think it is far from inconceivable a manufacturing error - inc some foreign body made its way in there at the factory - could cause this sort of behaviour. Have you never had a dud from new??? ... I've had a couple of NEW batteries that simply don't work/were faulty from manufacture (admittedly never one showing as much as 18v!! Laughing)




*I'd never dismiss this totally either - can't believe you would!
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finpos
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PostPosted: 01:16 - 11 Nov 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, I don't think you get it. If I have read you correctly, you seem to believe that an internal short between plates in the cell will cause a 6 cell lead acid battery to output 18V. It won't. There is no actual mechanism which can account for this happening, so I call it magic.

There are several mechanisms by which an internal short in a cell may be caused (manufacturing fault, chemical deposits, the royal mail...), and manufacturers have to go to great lengths to prevent this from happening (see, for example, the rather splendid AGM battery). The end result of an internal short is as consistent as it is explained by simple physics - you loose some or all of the potential from that cell. No magic required.

f.
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unitybiker
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PostPosted: 23:01 - 04 Dec 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

maybe the voltmeter was set on ac? or supplied dry?
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