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a bit sunk/stuck ... hydraulic locked ... all alone!! :(

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Blue_SV650S
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PostPosted: 16:46 - 15 Nov 2009    Post subject: a bit sunk/stuck ... hydraulic locked ... all alone!! :( Reply with quote
Although the weather today was great, yesterday and a few days prior it was hideous ... I had struggled to get someone to want to do a green lane ride with me. In the end I thought feck-it, I'll go on my todd!! Razz

I realised at the time that solo green lane is perhaps not the smartest thing to do (getting stuck, hurt or broken down, best to have others to help, you are kinda rogered without!) but especially silly after a storm!! Embarassed

Meh - more of a challenge right?!!? Very Happy

So I set off on my 100 mile route ... about 70 miles? into it and I got to a big puddle - renowned on the route for being a b-atch - I have got stuck here before now and needed a 5 man get-out ... but hell, I bit the bullet and went for it! It was DEEP ... but the WR was doing well ... until the it started misfiring .. and eventually cut!! right in the middle Shocked

Water line was just below the airbox, so I didn't really panic ... actually got off and took some pics (see below) whilst I gave it a moment to dry off.

I then tried hitting the starter ... whurr wherrr ... it was still soggy ... perhaps some more throttle?!!? ... na didn't help .. left it a few seconds and tried again ... and it hydraulic locked!!! Shocked ....

I was in the sh1te now ... in a the middle of a deep puddle, engine locked (potentially fecked) no mobile reception and miles from civilisation ... Neutral

Thankfully I could push the bike out of the puddle (all be it up to my thighs in water slip sliding everywhere) - ok first problem resolved ...

I had enough tools to get the plug out but was panicking that I might have damaged the engine!!

I couldn't get that plug out fast enough!! ...

I whirled it over and LOADS of - amazingly - PETROL came gushing out ... Thinking ...

I cleaned the plug and let the cylinder air for a bit as I dried the the plug cap/coil.

Put the plug half ways back in, and after a bit - thank god it started and the bike ran OK!! PHEW!!! ... so put the plug all the way in and bolted everything back together ...

To be honest, it shook me up a bit ... I realised just how fecked you are when soloing ... it made it hard for me to totally enjoy the rest of the route ... especially where there were DEEP puddles ...

Still I evidently got back ok, so alls well that ends well! Smile ... glad I went out even if no other fecker wanted to!! Mr. Green

Will I be so keen to solo again??? ... probably not!!


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MaybeGuy
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PostPosted: 16:50 - 15 Nov 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote
i've been through deeper on the KTM without bother Shocked
maybe WR's drown a little easier.
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Blue_SV650S wrote: it was a sh1te wheelie, but it proves that he can get it up in 3rd and can do angles. In summery, mattsprattuk is a gobby little sh1tebag, dopehead tw4t, but sadly for all of us, he probably isn't THAT full of sh1te!! Mr. Green
Kickstart wrote: Hi I tend to agree with Matt. All the best Keith
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Sparks!
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PostPosted: 16:51 - 15 Nov 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote
I want that bike.
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Blue_SV650S
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PostPosted: 16:59 - 15 Nov 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote
mattsprattuk wrote:
i've been through deeper on the KTM without bother Shocked
maybe WR's drown a little easier.


I was surprised it conked out myself as I got it prety wet the other week and it didn't miss a beat ...

Oh and you have to remember that is just sitting there ... when going forward, the bow-wave was over the bars ... that said, I too was still surprised it cut bearing in mind what it had gone through before ... I suppose it knew I was on my todd and that is why it packed up!! Twisted Evil Laughing
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Blue_SV650S
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PostPosted: 17:03 - 15 Nov 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote
Sparks! wrote:
I want that bike.


At one point, I thought I was going to have to leave it there!!! Shocked
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Imonster
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PostPosted: 17:36 - 15 Nov 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote
Perhaps paranoia on my part, but when a mate hydro locked his bike last week, I had the fuel tank off and bike upside down too.

Only cos a mate has whirled it over with the plug upright, saw there was hardly anything coming out and turned it upside down at the last moment just to be sure - about half a pint of water came out Shocked

Would suggest flushing with cheap oil a coupla times just to be sure....

Having said that, I've never professed to be an expert, so I'm happy to be corrected Very Happy
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Blue_SV650S
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PostPosted: 17:56 - 15 Nov 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote
Imonster wrote:
Perhaps paranoia on my part, but when a mate hydro locked his bike last week, I had the fuel tank off and bike upside down too.

Only cos a mate has whirled it over with the plug upright, saw there was hardly anything coming out and turned it upside down at the last moment just to be sure - about half a pint of water came out Shocked

Would suggest flushing with cheap oil a coupla times just to be sure....

Having said that, I've never professed to be an expert, so I'm happy to be corrected Very Happy


The plug/cap/coil just conked out, I didn't drop it in the water, therefore the actual airbox, tank etc stayed above water (i.e. splashed, but not submerged) ... when I took the airbox cover off, it wasn't full (sure it had water in there, but not filled up) ... and when I took the plug out it was 100% FUEL ... odd ...

I can only think that it was either me twisting the throttle when trying to start or more logically that the carb breather being blocked/filled with water where it stood there meant the carb p1ssed fuel into the engine ... hence the PETROL hydraulic ....

I think your mate went submarine right?? ... wasn't the case for me!! Smile

I first ASSUMED it was water and to be honest, I was sh1tting it I had wrecked my engine ... but as I said, it was fuel in the end, it DID re-start and it appears ok (long-term effects obviously unknown, but it got me the rest of the way round!! Thumbs Up)
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silky666
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PostPosted: 18:04 - 15 Nov 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote
Probably worth draining the oil ... filling with cheap oil .. draining and fitting new filter and good oil.

If in any doubt - ask Philo the 'cost' of NOT doing this after drowning a bike !
It will only cost the price of cheap oil and a filter (£6) extra to a normal change, which it is probably due anyway !
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silky666
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PostPosted: 18:07 - 15 Nov 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote
Sparks! wrote:
I want that bike.

Can have my one if you want ... same bike, more power.
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Blue_SV650S
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PostPosted: 18:20 - 15 Nov 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote
silky666 wrote:
Probably worth draining the oil ... filling with cheap oil .. draining and fitting new filter and good oil.

If in any doubt - ask Philo the 'cost' of NOT doing this after drowning a bike !
It will only cost the price of cheap oil and a filter (£6) extra to a normal change, which it is probably due anyway !


I checked the oil after, it was perfectly clean, no water contamination.

I reiterate, the excess of water put the plug out, that is why the bike initially stopped, it didn't suck water in. Straight after stopping, it turned over fine - just didn't fire as plug wet - The hydraulic only came on after it had been sat for a bit ... after a strip, turns out it was caused by fuel/the carb overflowing, I think the most logical reason for this was water pressure on the overflows/breathers where I let the bike sit in the puddle for a few mins to try and dry the spark out, this had made the carb overflow into the engine.

So it hasn't taken water in ... well excess of water in, through the airbox and the bike remained upright at all times, so it didn't have a lay-down in the puddle at any point.

If I was in any doubt the oil was contaminated, I'd change it, but I really can't see where water would have got into the oil TBH ...
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Ste
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PostPosted: 18:25 - 15 Nov 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote
Blue_SV650S wrote:
If I was in any doubt the oil was contaminated, I'd change it, but I really can't see where water would have got into the oil TBH ...

Breather pipes?

For the cost of changing the oil I'd say it's worth doing. Thumbs Up

I don't see where water got into this oil after I got the bike stuck in deep water...

https://www.stedotcom.com/stuff/oil500.jpg
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Sparks!
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PostPosted: 18:25 - 15 Nov 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote
silky666 wrote:
Sparks! wrote:
I want that bike.

Can have my one if you want ... same bike, more power.


Completely different bike Confused I used to have one, very good bikes but I want a button and something newer that rides a bit lighter and turns quicker, and as good as the older WR's are, they aren't as good as the newer WR's...
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Blue_SV650S
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PostPosted: 19:06 - 15 Nov 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ste wrote:
Blue_SV650S wrote:
If I was in any doubt the oil was contaminated, I'd change it, but I really can't see where water would have got into the oil TBH ...

Breather pipes?

For the cost of changing the oil I'd say it's worth doing. Thumbs Up

I don't see where water got into this oil after I got the bike stuck in deep water...


But the breather is right ontop of the cam/rocker cover (unless anyone knows any different?)... sure the water came a fair ways up, but the head and therefore the breather (well the uppermost point of the breather) was not submerged ...

Also I checked the oil dipstick shortly after the re-start and again at the end of the ride and it was still a nice yellow colour, no milky yuckyness to make me think water had made its way in!! Thumbs Up
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ben_wheely
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PostPosted: 11:41 - 16 Nov 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote
Blue_SV650S wrote:

But the breather is right ontop of the cam/rocker cover (unless anyone knows any different?)... sure the water came a fair ways up, but the head and therefore the breather (well the uppermost point of the breather) was not submerged ...


This is what we do ... A guy from our TRF actually proved that re-routing 1 breather pipe from the carb up some where higher, helps it run better in/through water.

Seems you had a worrying time. I wouldn't be brave enough to go out alone, as i've been in a few situations before where ive been stuck or stuck under the bike ect.

Then again, down this way theres always people willing to go out. I went out saturday with 4 others even though there was ~70-80mph gusts and down pours ... all part of the fun Razz

and yes it was very wet too ...

https://img689.imageshack.us/img689/373/dsc01445s.jpg

ps. was you cold, them pictures are very blurry Laughing
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The Shaggy D.A.
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PostPosted: 11:52 - 16 Nov 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote
Is the bike coated with PTFE? It looks amazingly clean for a 70 mile mudplug.
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Blue_SV650S
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PostPosted: 12:45 - 16 Nov 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote
wheely wrote:

This is what we do ... A guy from our TRF actually proved that re-routing 1 breather pipe from the carb up some where higher, helps it run better in/through water.


That is a great idea ... might get a few meters of overflow pipe and do that!! Smile

As for the pics, it was only done on my mobile ... and I was teetering on the edge of a muddy bank!! Razz

The Shaggy D.A. wrote:
Is the bike coated with PTFE? It looks amazingly clean for a 70 mile mudplug.


Yes it was shiny to start with, but I think you underestimate just how much it was getting washed as it/I was going along!!! Wink ... most of the lanes with gradients were rivers and there were LOTS of deeply sploshy puddles. Cool
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ben_wheely
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PostPosted: 13:39 - 16 Nov 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote
This is from my trf site :

Quote:
My 400EXC did the same when I went into water. I Re-routed my carb breathers ( NOT THE ONE FROM BOTTOM OF CARB FLOAT BOWL) into the top of the air box. I drilled a small hole , fed them in and put a small cable tie around them. Then siliconed the whole to seal off the air box. Make sure the bend on the tubes from carb around and up to air box is smooth so as not to kink them and restrict the breather'ness of them.


Some people put them into the airbox, some people say not too. As long as they/some are up to let the carb breath if you ever stop or cut out in water. My bike has only 1 pipe moved, which is just tucked up near the seat, and I have never had a problem in water. Ever. Except the time i dropped the bike under Rolling Eyes Even after that, it was running again shortly Razz

Did you drain the carb when the bike cut out ?
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Last edited by ben_wheely on 13:46 - 16 Nov 2009; edited 1 time in total
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G
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PostPosted: 13:45 - 16 Nov 2009    Post subject: Re: a bit sunk/stuck ... hydraulic locked ... all alone!! :( Reply with quote
Tut Tut - wrong technique, innit, try this instead.
(Though, of course, you do have to do it right Smile.)
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silky666
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PostPosted: 14:09 - 16 Nov 2009    Post subject: Re: a bit sunk/stuck ... hydraulic locked ... all alone!! :( Reply with quote
G wrote:
Tut Tut - wrong technique, innit, try this instead.
(Though, of course, you do have to do it right Smile.)

Or use the tried and tested SE Technique ! - as displayed by MikeJ.

https://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t69/silky666/Bike%20Stuff/mike_pond_deep.jpg

on no! silly me, ignore that - it ended up with tears before bedtime! Laughing

https://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t69/silky666/Bike%20Stuff/tip_bike.jpg
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Ste
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PostPosted: 14:34 - 16 Nov 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote
The correct technique for crossing deep water is to use a 4x4. Razz
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Blue_SV650S
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PostPosted: 15:54 - 16 Nov 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote
wheely wrote:
This is from my trf site :

Quote:
My 400EXC did the same when I went into water. I Re-routed my carb breathers ( NOT THE ONE FROM BOTTOM OF CARB FLOAT BOWL) into the top of the air box. I drilled a small hole , fed them in and put a small cable tie around them. Then siliconed the whole to seal off the air box. Make sure the bend on the tubes from carb around and up to air box is smooth so as not to kink them and restrict the breather'ness of them.


Some people put them into the airbox, some people say not too. As long as they/some are up to let the carb breath if you ever stop or cut out in water. My bike has only 1 pipe moved, which is just tucked up near the seat, and I have never had a problem in water. Ever. Except the time i dropped the bike under Rolling Eyes Even after that, it was running again shortly Razz

Did you drain the carb when the bike cut out ?


So it seems my guess of the flooding (petrol) was correct then as others have experienced it after being stood in water too?? - how kool am I?!!? Mr. Green

I am not convinced with putting the pipes in the airbox as I am not sure how the airflow/pressures in there will effect the carb ... but I DO like the idea of putting them so the exit is near the top of the bike. I think as long as they have a 'U' near the top all is well, I obviously need to ensure they don't point at anything where if they do their job 9breath and /overflow) it is not on something that is likely to ignite the fuel/vapour ...

I am also going to get some of this:- https://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?moduleno=29006 (the tube/gel version RE90X, not the spray) and put it on the HT/Coil connector etc to help prevent the spark/plug from going out again (which was the start of all this nonsense Sad).
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.....
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PostPosted: 16:01 - 16 Nov 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote
My XR used to cut out when it was very wet. I thought it was a plug/cap issue but eventually found out it was a carb breather issue.
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silky666
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PostPosted: 16:12 - 16 Nov 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote
Blue_SV650S wrote:
I am also going to get some of this:- https://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?moduleno=29006 (the tube/gel version RE90X, not the spray) and put it on the HT/Coil connector etc to help prevent the spark/plug from going out again (which was the start of all this nonsense Sad).

Being an ex XR owner .. I am well versed in the ways of 'bike cutting out when going through puddles'. Rolling Eyes
I used silicone tape ... and it worked a treat ... sticks to itself and makes a perfect seal ... and stretches for 'miles' (ie: goes a long way).
I will bring it out with me on this weekends ride and we can wrap a load around your leads etc.

https://www.illumitronic.com/images/Self_Fusing_Silicone_Tape350x416.jpg
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Blue_SV650S
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PostPosted: 16:24 - 16 Nov 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote
silky666 wrote:

Being an ex XR owner .. I am well versed in the ways of 'bike cutting out when going through puddles'. Rolling Eyes
I used silicone tape ... and it worked a treat ... sticks to itself and makes a perfect seal ... and stretches for 'miles' (ie: goes a long way).
I will bring it out with me on this weekends ride and we can wrap a load around your leads etc.



Cool, thanks for the tip, not seen that stuff before Cool

But you have to take half the bike apart* to get to my plug-coil-cap/lead, so not really a 30s job Sad

So better off doing it at home in the dry and where I am not time restricted Thumbs Up

I've used that silocone grease before on my SV front plug (they are notorious for playing up in the wet and that is a popular resolve).

It worked well and this being a gel, I can just put it on my chubby fingers and 'prod' it where needed and build up quite a protective thickness!! Smile







*ok, ok, perhaps a little bit of an exaggeration Laughing
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eddclarke
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PostPosted: 18:09 - 16 Nov 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote
silky666 wrote:
Sparks! wrote:
I want that bike.

Can have my one if you want ... same bike, more power.


How much?
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