Reasonable force?

[Itchy]

https://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article6956044.ece

[ms51ves3]

Beat them to a pulp. The justice system won't do anything about it.

[map]

I do believe the line was crossed when it was a chase down the street and a prolonged beating by more than one other.

IMO chase and some physical damage (he fell m'lud) would have been ok if just stopped the guy from running off again.

Also IMO beating ok if still inside house and fearing for own and families life.

Also I'm surprised why none of them 'accidentally' fell down a flight of stairs when on remand.

As implied above, the legal system bears little or no resemblance to a justice system.

From the names of the criminals I'm taking a leap here and saying they're possibly of the Muslim faith? (the victims were) If so, if this occurred in a Muslim majority county, say Dubai, would the 'justice' be the same as here in the UK? It's legend that a criminal's hands were severed. Is this still the case in the 21st century?*

Just my thoughts.

<edit>
FWIW I think I'm in the Harry Palmer Brown camp.
</edit>

* for the record I do not support having any Muslim influenced laws/punishment in the UK. IMO their attitude towards woman and rape/adultery stinks. I only mention this to compare and contrast.
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[daemonoid]

[Itchy]

[Hetzer]

What might be going through my mind...

"If I let these people escape/survive, and the police are unable to find and apprehend them, what's to say they won't come back, with the original motive plus a desire for vengeance, and kill me, my wife and my children?"

Self defence, in the face of people who have already proved an extraordinary willingness to transgress every notion of decent civilised behaviour, goes beyond the immediate. And any judge who cannot understand that is a fool.
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[ms51ves3]

[Skudd]

Reasonable force is the act to stop what is happening or immediately about to happen.

[D O G]

[Hetzer]

[Raffles]

[GhostRider]

I caught this on Radio 2 today, at first I couldn't believe it, but then reminded myself what country I live in.

Serves the cunts right, I would have done exactly the same had I been in the same situation.

Fuck anyone that says "Well, they were no threat anymore" So fucking what? Let that be a lesson to them thats what happens when you put a blade to someones sons/daughters throat and in this day and age I wouldn;t hesitate to think that they might well useit .

Lets face it, if they had done nothing the criminals would have got away with it scot free.

[Hetzer]

[Skudd]

'Heat of the moment' has to be defined, given a time scale and a mind set.
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[Hetzer]

[Skudd]

[Hetzer]

If you break into my home and threaten the lives of my children with a knife you are beyond the law and deserve to die. Not for vengeance but because you now pose an ongoing threat to me and my family, one that I am naturally entitled to protect myself against.

There cannot be a victim on both sides of an offence of this nature. In this case the perps forfeited any right to be considered as such, no matter what was done to them in the heat of the moment.
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"There's the horizon! Ride hard, ride fast and cut down all who stand in your way!"

[colin1]

The key thing for me, is not whether the victim got carried away, but the fact that he is in jail, and one of his attackers wasnt even given a jail sentence.

If the law was correctly applied, it's time to change the law.

If someone threatens to hit you, you are legally allowed to hit them first as a pre-emptive strike.

If someone threatens to kill you, and they arent joking, I think you are being overly lenient, in not attempting to kill them first, if you believe that they intend to kill you.

Obviously the law cant sanction pre-emptively killing folk, but I think it should allow a bit of leeway on reasonable force.
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[Hetzer]

[Harold_Shand]

I've got nothing new to add but if someone comes into your house like that, they deserve everything that's coming, that includes brain damage and death. Maybe if we were allowed to defend ourselves in this way and take the law into our own hands occasionally, the scum of the earth might go back to working instead of thieving.
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Harold_Shand's theory might be the best explanation.

[bazza]

I can't believe some of the stuff you lot are coming out with. I don't care if it was in the "heat of the moment" - chasing 3 people down the street and simply battering one of them into insensibility as the other 2 escape is utterly indefensible.

30 months is an example to others that this sort of thing is not to be tolerated. Why, for instance, didn't Mr Hussein extract the names and addresses of the other two before cutting Mr Salem's throat with his own knife in self-defence? Why were the other two not then tracked down, headbagged and transited to a quiet location to spend their few remaining hours on Earth in excruciating pain and abject fear in the company of grim-faced men, some simple woodworking tools and a jumbo pack of assorted cable ties?
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[AngelGrinder]

It's easy to say from an outsiders opinion that it's over the top to chase someone down like that, but we don't know the circumstances, and you can't say anything until you've been through it.

Let's say...

You are awoken in the middle of the night by a few blokes wearing balaclavas. They tie you and your family up, slap them about a bit, tell you they are going to do horrible stuff to your family, all while smashing their way through all your worldly possesions and destroying your home.

You're not going to be very calm are you?

Now let's say you manage to break free and get your hands on something big and heavy or sharp....are you seriously going to watch them run down the road and escape? Or are you going to see red, after some cvnts just told you he's going to rape and kill your daughter, and chase them and unleash your fury?

I'm pretty sure if I was in the same situation, I very much doubt I could hold myself back. See 'Law Abiding Citizen' for the scene where he captures his family's murderer.
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[Harold_Shand]

Justice is political and financial, not moral.

The police can't do fuck all... we can't do fuck all... judges can't do fuck all...

what could possibly be the outcome of this?
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BCF's 6th favourite poster 2009-2010

Harold_Shand's theory might be the best explanation.

[daemonoid]

The bit of the story that is not clear is the length of time between escape of Hussein and then the subsequent beating of Salem. Hussein managed to get his brother 'from a nearby house' I assume he would've untied at least his wife, then picked up a cricket bat and also got a further two men (give him the benefit of the doubt and we'll say they were at his brother's house).

So, the 4 of them then went and chased down Salem, at which point they had him ready for the cops, but instead decided to beat the crap out of him. Surely 3 of the 4 were not in fear of their lives? Even Hussein should've realised after the first few whacks with a bat that the guy was caught and subdued? They even had time to tell neighbours to mind their own business when they were urged to stop the beating.

I suppose though I'm defending the indefensible to some extent. Salem clearly deserved punishment, just not permanent brain damage at the hands of a vigilante mob.
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[GhostRider]