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MaybeGuy
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PostPosted: 14:55 - 29 Dec 2009    Post subject: faux claims bonus Reply with quote

if i was to get a 50cc scooter frame and insure myself on it, could i then use this as a backup no claims if i was to lose my current one?

I know you 'cant', but is there anything actually stopping you?
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Kickstart wrote: Hi I tend to agree with Matt. All the best Keith
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chris-red
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PostPosted: 14:58 - 29 Dec 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can there is nothing stopping you, providing you start the policy with 0 ncb.
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ms51ves3
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PostPosted: 14:59 - 29 Dec 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you mean start building up a separate no claims? If so you could do that, but the cost of insuring the 50cc over many years would probably outweigh the discount.
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MaybeGuy
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PostPosted: 15:18 - 29 Dec 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

well, on a c50 it costs me just under £50 a year to insure, so i guess thats the way to go.

Considering with 0ncb my gsxr was £500 to insure, and when my 2 years ncb came through, it was £180, im thinking its worthwhile having a backup. Especially with my points and claim possibly incoming.

Got a quote if i got 6 points and 1 claim and my insurance goes from £241 on the R6 to over a grand Sad
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Blue_SV650S wrote: it was a sh1te wheelie, but it proves that he can get it up in 3rd and can do angles. In summery, mattsprattuk is a gobby little sh1tebag, dopehead tw4t, but sadly for all of us, he probably isn't THAT full of sh1te!! Mr. Green
Kickstart wrote: Hi I tend to agree with Matt. All the best Keith
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 15:26 - 29 Dec 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

mattsprattuk wrote:
well, on a c50 it costs me just under £50 a year to insure, so i guess thats the way to go.

Considering with 0ncb my gsxr was £500 to insure, and when my 2 years ncb came through, it was £180, im thinking its worthwhile having a backup. Especially with my points and claim possibly incoming.

Got a quote if i got 6 points and 1 claim and my insurance goes from £241 on the R6 to over a grand Sad


It wouldn't make any difference because you'd still have to declare the claim. The 'no claims bonus' isn't worth that much to you. They do take some money off of the premium for having a 'no claims bonus' but it is more worthwhile that you have actually got no declared claims. The reason the cost goes up on your R6 insurance is because you've got a declared claim and some points, NOT because you lost your no claims bonus, although that would have probably added a few quid to it.

If you don't declare the claim then you are committing insurance fraud.
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MaybeGuy
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PostPosted: 15:31 - 29 Dec 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

it does in fact make a fair bit of difference as said above. My insurance halved from 500 in the first year and got to 180 on the second on the gsxr.
Main purpose being to lessen the blow of the possible points and claim
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Blue_SV650S wrote: it was a sh1te wheelie, but it proves that he can get it up in 3rd and can do angles. In summery, mattsprattuk is a gobby little sh1tebag, dopehead tw4t, but sadly for all of us, he probably isn't THAT full of sh1te!! Mr. Green
Kickstart wrote: Hi I tend to agree with Matt. All the best Keith
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 15:41 - 29 Dec 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

mattsprattuk wrote:
it does in fact make a fair bit of difference as said above. My insurance halved from 500 in the first year and got to 180 on the second on the gsxr.
Main purpose being to lessen the blow of the possible points and claim


Doesn't work like that. A years no claims is worth 10% and the second years is worth 15-20%. The reason you got an insurance discount was because you had two years without accidents or claims, and thats two years of documented experience. The actual no claims bonus itself is pretty meaningless.

They also add a loading if you declare a claim which is MUCH greater than any discount you might recieve from a spare no claims bonus.

In short, you'll probably end up paying out more than you would save.
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prawny1
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PostPosted: 16:03 - 29 Dec 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any claim you make will have to be declared, so building a "back up" set of ncb isn't possible.

What you can do is insure as many bikes as you want in one year and then use all of those ncb on a single bike the next year, what you can't do is use your ncb on more than one bike at a time (a shop won't let you use a discount voucher more than once will they).

The benefit is that you can build up to protected ncb status alot quicker, If you can afford it and plan on riding a moped for a year the passing your test getting a theft only policy on the cheapest possible bike and building up a ncb may well make your first years premium on the bigger machine more managable.
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chris-red
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PostPosted: 16:24 - 29 Dec 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

MarJay wrote:
mattsprattuk wrote:
it does in fact make a fair bit of difference as said above. My insurance halved from 500 in the first year and got to 180 on the second on the gsxr.
Main purpose being to lessen the blow of the possible points and claim


Doesn't work like that. A years no claims is worth 10% and the second years is worth 15-20%. The reason you got an insurance discount was because you had two years without accidents or claims, and thats two years of documented experience. The actual no claims bonus itself is pretty meaningless.

They also add a loading if you declare a claim which is MUCH greater than any discount you might recieve from a spare no claims bonus.

In short, you'll probably end up paying out more than you would save.


Not true, I had an accident and had 2 year ncb wiped because I had another 1 ncb my insurance was nearly halfed.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 16:28 - 29 Dec 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

MarJay wrote:


Doesn't work like that. A years no claims is worth 10% and the second years is worth 15-20%. The reason you got an insurance discount was because you had two years without accidents or claims, and thats two years of documented experience. The actual no claims bonus itself is pretty meaningless.


Although to some companies, doesn't work like that either. As one guy informed me while refusing to do me anything acknowledging the fact that I'd been insured with their company for the last five years without making a claim.

If I'd been taking out another policy with THEM they'd have given me a full NCB but if it was with anyone else then I'm back to zero.

It's nothing to do with the asessment of how likely I am to make a claim apparently. It's more like a kind loyalty scheme "And the directors do like to have champagne at their xmas party etc. etc.".

I haven't made a claim in the last 10 years, have been continually insured for that period and officially have NO NCB.

In short, insurance companies are, without exception, a bunch of robbing cunts who will fuck you over at each and every oppertunity that presents itself. And that's just if you don't have a claim.
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yuri2085
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PostPosted: 16:30 - 29 Dec 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

MarJay wrote:

Doesn't work like that. A years no claims is worth 10% and the second years is worth 15-20%. The reason you got an insurance discount was because you had two years without accidents or claims, and thats two years of documented experience. The actual no claims bonus itself is pretty meaningless.


I believe you are talking about how it works on a car, on a bike the first year is worth more like 40%.
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c-m
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PostPosted: 16:30 - 29 Dec 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

prawny1 wrote:
Any claim you make will have to be declared, so building a "back up" set of ncb isn't possible.

What you can do is insure as many bikes as you want in one year and then use all of those ncb on a single bike the next year, what you can't do is use your ncb on more than one bike at a time (a shop won't let you use a discount voucher more than once will they).

The benefit is that you can build up to protected ncb status alot quicker, If you can afford it and plan on riding a moped for a year the passing your test getting a theft only policy on the cheapest possible bike and building up a ncb may well make your first years premium on the bigger machine more managable.


I've just taken out a policy with 2 years no claims. If i'm understanding you correctly. I could take out a policy on a seperate bike for a year and then next year I would have 4 years no claims to use on whatever i wanted?
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prawny1
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PostPosted: 16:35 - 29 Dec 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes exactly Thumbs Up
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Ingah
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PostPosted: 18:59 - 29 Dec 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

c-m wrote:

I've just taken out a policy with 2 years no claims. If i'm understanding you correctly. I could take out a policy on a seperate bike for a year and then next year I would have 4 years no claims to use on whatever i wanted?


In a word, yes.

However, one insurance company, after having a word with the underwriter (to get the best quote out of 10 hours of insurance companies i'd called) asked if the NCB i'd accrued had been earned consectutively or concurrently. Apparently they wouldn't have been able to go so low if i'd got my 2 years NCB within a single year using 2 bikes. Note: I was asking for a multi-bike quote, and it was the only company that asked - obviously it mattered in terms of my "risk".

Other thing to note is that yuri is correct. According to "the money saving expert" - Martin Lewis, unlike on a car, 2 years NCB on a motorbike will give you a much larger - 40% - discount (quite alot more than one year if you pick up the gist from his article on the Money Saving Expert website). This is cemented in my head because my best quote with no NCB and wanting business use was £500 (15/16 months ago), and on the same bike it's now £240 with 2 years NCB and not wanting business use and being a year older. Everything else about my quote is essentially the same, and it's about right if i take it into account my extra year and lower risk usage.
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ms51ves3
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PostPosted: 23:01 - 29 Dec 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

c-m wrote:
prawny1 wrote:
Any claim you make will have to be declared, so building a "back up" set of ncb isn't possible.

What you can do is insure as many bikes as you want in one year and then use all of those ncb on a single bike the next year, what you can't do is use your ncb on more than one bike at a time (a shop won't let you use a discount voucher more than once will they).

The benefit is that you can build up to protected ncb status alot quicker, If you can afford it and plan on riding a moped for a year the passing your test getting a theft only policy on the cheapest possible bike and building up a ncb may well make your first years premium on the bigger machine more managable.


I've just taken out a policy with 2 years no claims. If i'm understanding you correctly. I could take out a policy on a seperate bike for a year and then next year I would have 4 years no claims to use on whatever i wanted?


No, you would have one set of no claims with 3 years and one set with 1 year.

That's like saying at 16, you could buy 10 scooters, insure them all on separate policies and then at 17 having 10 years NCB. It doesn't work like that.
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prawny1
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PostPosted: 01:38 - 30 Dec 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
No, you would have one set of no claims with 3 years and one set with 1 year.

That's like saying at 16, you could buy 10 scooters, insure them all on separate policies and then at 17 having 10 years NCB. It doesn't work like that.


yes it does, no claims bonus does not have to be earned consecutivly for it to count, As ingah found some companies will ask if the ncb you are claiming was earned consectutively or concurrently,

but most don't and those that do ask will still accept them as they have been earned by not making a claim and are valid.

By your reasoning anyone changing brokers would have to start collection another set of ncb,

If you go for a period (not sure exactly how long) without having any insurance on anything at all you will lose your entitlement to a ncb, thats why even if you don't intend to ride anything its good to keep a basic policy going just so you don't lose any ncb that has been earned over the years.
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chris-red
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PostPosted: 09:04 - 30 Dec 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

prawny1 wrote:
Quote:
No, you would have one set of no claims with 3 years and one set with 1 year.

That's like saying at 16, you could buy 10 scooters, insure them all on separate policies and then at 17 having 10 years NCB. It doesn't work like that.


yes it does, no claims bonus does not have to be earned consecutivly for it to count, As ingah found some companies will ask if the ncb you are claiming was earned consectutively or concurrently,

but most don't and those that do ask will still accept them as they have been earned by not making a claim and are valid.

By your reasoning anyone changing brokers would have to start collection another set of ncb,

If you go for a period (not sure exactly how long) without having any insurance on anything at all you will lose your entitlement to a ncb, thats why even if you don't intend to ride anything its good to keep a basic policy going just so you don't lose any ncb that has been earned over the years.


Every company I have spoke to says it has to be connected, I have never heard of companies letting you join separate policies together.
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Well, you know what they say. If you want to save the world, you have to push a few old ladies down the stairs.
Skudd:- Perhaps she just thinks you are a window licker and is being nice just in case she becomes another Jill Dando.
WANTED:- Fujinon (Fuji) M42 (Screw on) lenses, let me know if you have anything.


Last edited by chris-red on 10:21 - 31 Dec 2009; edited 1 time in total
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 11:32 - 30 Dec 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

Never before heard of a company allowing you to add up and count no claims from seperate policies.

All the best

Keith
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ms51ves3
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PostPosted: 11:35 - 30 Dec 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

prawny1 wrote:
By your reasoning anyone changing brokers would have to start collection another set of ncb,


Where the hell did you read that Confused

Like Chris said, I also have never found a company that allows you to join up two sets of no claims to make one larger set.

Links to the companies that allow you to do this would be appreciated.
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prawny1
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PostPosted: 01:09 - 31 Dec 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

So if you belive you can't add together ncb from seperate policies then how on earth do people go about changing brokers? Surely that means changing your policy.

If you had say 10 years ncb on a policy that you renewed every year and then found someone cheaper/ better you wouldn't lose your ncb.

Like i said before you can't use your ncb on more than one bike at a time, but that doesn't mean that if you bought a shitter and insured it for a year that you can't use that ncb on another bike the following year, Also whether the otherbike had its own insurance or not the previous year doesn't matter,

ncb are not allocated to a bike or a policy they are allocated to a rider, some companies send you a proof of ncb thru the post with a referance number but all record them so other companies can check if they are valid,

I had one company ask who I had earned my ncb' with before they would protect my ncb and checked with I belive four different brokers to confirm thier validity (I had four different bikes during that time too),


Last edited by prawny1 on 01:33 - 31 Dec 2009; edited 1 time in total
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Ste
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PostPosted: 01:32 - 31 Dec 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

prawny1 wrote:
So if you belive you can't add together ncb from seperate policies then how on earth do people go about changing brokers? Surely that means changing your policy.

If you had say 10 years ncb on a policy that you renewed every year and then found someone cheaper/ better you wouldn't lose your ncb.

You send proof of your NCB to your new insurance company/broker. Proof can be your renewal letter as that will have your NCB on it or you can phone your your previous insurance company and ask them to send you a letter as proof of your NCB.
prawny1 wrote:
O.k lets say you have two bikes one that has been insured for 4 years and one that has been insured for 5years,

Then you sell your bike that you have eaned 5 years ncb on would you then just forget about those 5 years worth of bonus'? No you wouldn't you would count them against your remaining bike insurance come renewel time.

You can only do that if you can find an insurance company that will allow you to add the NCB together.

Does anyone know an insurance company that allows you to combine NCB?
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Kal
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PostPosted: 10:11 - 31 Dec 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

prawny1 wrote:
So if you belive you can't add together ncb from seperate policies then how on earth do people go about changing brokers? Surely that means changing your policy.


There is a critical difference between adding consecutively earned NCBs and concurrently earned NCBs. very, very few places will accept concurrently earned bonus's, even if they only ran together for a month.
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chris-red
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PostPosted: 10:21 - 31 Dec 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

prawny1 wrote:
load of crap




You are talking out of your arse, the no claims has to be in a line as such I.e.


If you had 1 bike insured for 1 year you would have 1 years NCB.

Then you buy another bike so you have 2 and get them insured on different policys you could only use that 1 years NCB on 1 policy so at the end of that year you would have 2 years ncb and 1 years ncb. You cannot combine them.

Next year you sell one of the bikes, you only have 2years ncb for that policy then at the end of that year you would have 3years NCB and 1 Years NCB

You could not combine this to make 4

Changing brokers is irrelevant, changing bikes is irrelevant
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Well, you know what they say. If you want to save the world, you have to push a few old ladies down the stairs.
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ms51ves3
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PostPosted: 11:21 - 31 Dec 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

chris-red wrote:
prawny1 wrote:
load of crap


The facts.


If I had some karma, you would be getting some 'agree'.
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G
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PostPosted: 11:28 - 31 Dec 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have just done a 'the bike insurer'* quote for a mid-twenties person insuring an R6 with two claims - one a couple of months ago and the other a couple of years ago.

Between the two quotes I did, I only changed one variable - the first quote has no no claims bonus, the second one has one year.
As you can see, even the cheapest gets a decent discount, however there's also now a lot wider variety of places offering it at that level too.
https://www.bikechatforums.com/files/compareinsurance.jpg
Note that the first twelve quotes are now cheaper than the previous second quote.

If you could 'add up' no claims, you could get five really cheap policies on a scooter, keep it for a year and have five years no claims.
I have never heard of any insurer that will do this.
Some insurers will take account of other no claims bonus you have on other vehicles which you can't use, but it doesn't get 'added' or anything.
Some will even give you some kind of introductory 'bonus' no claims bonus, but it doesn't use up any others and is just pulled from the air.

* Remember to use false details kids, they'll hassle you anyway they can and spam you even if you ask not to be. I used details from the information comissioner's office, not that it'll make any difference.
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