Shitter or Shiner

[smegballs]

If you take a look at my sig bike history you will see a fair few 80's wrecks as well as a GS400 and ZZR more recently.

I think I actually like the old shitters more than the ZZR (which is by all means a very average specimen). Theres no denying it is nice to have a bike I know will start and can be trusted to get me somewhere. At the same time though the ZZR and to an extent the GS just seemed pretty soulless machines. The ZZR will make me smile if it gets opened up and theres no denying its the most powerful, planted bike I've yet to own and its a pleasure to ride.

It just seems to be lacking a bit of character or something special to make it stand out.

On the other hand, my MZ I love. Despite not running for the last year, I can't trust it hardly to go anywhere without leaving me stranded, slow etc etc I still love that machine to bits and don't intend to ever sell it. I really don't know why I like a machine that most people I know hate with a passion (this particular bike). Its just got some magical quality that makes it all worthwhile somehow.

I'm sure some other people will know what I mean most likely certain cow man......

[27cows]

I was looking at a Ducati Streetfighter before Xmas. Beautiful piece of engineering. Magnesium here, titanium there, trickery pokery everywhere. Ohlins suspension, Brembo brakes and 167Kg dry weight. Phenomenal power and it looks the bollocks. But there's something missing.

For me, most newish bikes do things a bit too well. If I raced, I'd want the best in all departments. But I don't race. I ride on congested roads through all weathers. I don't want to be worrying about my hugely expensive cans getting ruined if I go for a slide down the road. I certainly don't want to be throwing vast amounts of money at tyres that last a few weeks.

Shitters you can tinker with. Bodge. Fix by the side of the road. I like riding to be a challenge. I like bikes that you have to make an effort with to make them go fast, round corners, stop. I like bikes with a bit of character about them.

These days it just seems to be about lining the pockets of aftermarket manufacturers. People spend more time bolting new bits to their power ranger bikes than riding them.

Soulless is the right word. A lot of modern bikes seem to be designed to go extremely fast, stop superbly well, handle brilliantly and weigh next to nothing...but some essential ingredient of what makes a bike a bike appears to be lacking.

So...shitters, not shiners

[Devils Advocate]

[Devils Advocate]

[27cows]

[Devils Advocate]

[27cows]

[Devils Advocate]

[Skudd]

[temeluchus]

[MaybeGuy]

[G]

Ridden an early R6?
They were always a bike I felt had a bit of 'sparkle' - a very capable bike that willed you to turn the throttle that bit more, lean that bit further - though if really provoked they would bite back with a bit of a waggle.

I prefer my 'character' in bikes to be mostly positives rather than negatives .

[T0MMY]

[Devils Advocate]

I`m not one to defend people who are grown up enough to fend for themselves but in all fairness to 27cows...i dont think he was being serious this time.
We were having back-and-forth sarcastic digs at each other but only in a freindly-banter-style way.
Not for one second does he really believe that he could keep up with, or outride, most "seasoned" pocket rocket riders such as myself, and you, and whoever.

[T0MMY]

Fair enough, it's just a cumulative effect really of reading his posts in various threads.

So you like the old time bikes huh? Fine...we get it
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ZX6R + CBR600RR

[Aka Matt]

For me it has to be a combination of both, I don't think I could face riding a rat type shitter but I don't think I'd enjoy refined brand new sports bikes which do everything amazingly well. I quite enjoy the spongy suspension of the corroding bandit and the crappy 2 pot calipers which take 1000 years to stop you (though the lack in power compared to the thundercat is a bit depressing). I sold my cat because it in my opinion done everything too easily and unless I was really hammering it down country roads, didn't really enjoy it which was becoming a bit risky on my licence.

I like a bike which still looks clean but also gives me plenty of stuff to do and has its faults as they give a bike character imo. A decent amount of mid range torque would also be nice though
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Current bike(s): 2016 Tuono 1100 Factory, 1998 Hornet 600
Previous: 1998 YZF600R Thundercat, 2001 Bandit 600, 2002 GSX-R 600 K2, 2011 Tuono R, 2013 Z1000SX

[virus]

I like my shitters and filthy rat bikes. Partly because of the character, partly because of the stupidly cheap parts, and partly because you can get away with a lot more stupid stuff on an old bike and still get it through an MOT.

Modern bikes to me do seem a bit soulless, modern brakes work too well, I'm used to front brakes you pull back to the bars straight away, then go back to piloting the front wheel to avoid carnage whilst leaving pinch marks in the seat and hoping the brakes wake up and do the job sometime soon. Modern suspension is actually firm! on most 80s hacks the only way to get suspension that doesn't wallow through corners and make you feel like your hips seem to be doing some latin dance is to replace the shocks with struts and hardtail it, then you have to deal with your testicles being slowly turned into mush.

Most of the reason I don't ride modern bikes is because I cant afford to, I cant afford to service a modern bike and I sure as hell cant afford to fix it when I inevitably throw it down the road in a moment of daftness (usually every 2 months or so).



Cheers
John
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own: 81 xs1100g...
owned: 85 rat CG (sold), 91 GS500e (stolen), 84 gsx400f (scrapped), 81 z250 (siezed, siezed, scrapped), 83 cb250rs (sold), 84 gpz750r ratfighter (killed) 84gpz400 (sold), '80 cb650 ratfighter (wrote off) 95gsx6/12f ratfighter (killed) 91 xj900 (sold)
stinkwheel Well I just had my hands up a pigs fanny. Which makes your concerns pale into insignificance.

[27cows]

[G]

I suspect even 'back in the day', people's sense of humour wore thin after hearing the same thing for the hundredth time .

[27cows]

[Kickstart]

Hi

While I think wrecks have their place, deliberatly ratting a bike seems pointless. Like starting with something decent and wrecking it just so you can claim to have a wreck. Bodging up something damaged to work seems fine, but taking something that is fine and wrecking it to make it look like a bodged fix just seems like the worst ideals of the fashion industry.

As to character, some bikes have it and some don't. We have a ZZR600 and I would agree that it has no character. It is a decent bike at most things, but not outstanding at anything. While an MZ might be slow and not that reliable, it is cheap and easily fixed at the side of the road.

To an extend I think it is the single mindedness in some areas at the expense of others that gives vehicles their character, if the plus points match what you like.

Take the Bimota. Complete git to work on for some jobs and lots of high frequency vibration for your fingers / toes. But goes well, handles OK (would handle well if I either put a lot of weight on or get the forks / shock rebuild for my weight), feels solid and special.

Possibly the same situation with the early R6 for G and the old large 2 squeak triples for 27Cows. At some point someone ignored the committee and said "stuff the effects on X, lets give it more Y". And possibly why the products of smaller companies seem to have more character, as they are more related to one engineers likes and less likely to be the product of a committee and a load of focus groups.

The same applies to cars as well, just that with cars the investment is far bigger and even less are prepared to put something on the market that hasn't been made as inoffensive as possible to 1001 focus groups.

All the best

Keith
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Traxpics, track day and racing photographs - Bimota Forum - Bike performance / thrust graphs for choosing gearing

[bunglehaze]

My current bike is 8 years old and showing its age - not that its a shitter yet but it has a hard life and I still love it. I wanted to replace it early last year with what I considered to be a new bike - still a 2005 model though.

Unless I am given a brand new bike I dont think I would be prepared to spend that kind of cash just in case anything happened to it, as an example I have to park behind my house which means riding down a tight alleyway and negotiating a tight bend. On my current bike I have scraped the fairing and exhaust a few times so I know it is likely to happen.

Not sure about the old vs new soul vs soulless debate but for me an older and less valuable bike is just more practical.

leigh
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https://bikechatter.net
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[Tarmacsurfer]

Keith makes a good point (as usual), the ZZR600 was Kwak's best ever attempt to make a Honda imnsho.

As to shitters, I ride what I ride. My main vehicle is a tatty as hell ZZR1100C, I'd have to clean it for it to look decent enough to be called a rat but it goes like stink and does what I want it to (although needing some work currently). Once the rebuild on the ZL1000 is finished it'll probably be somewhat shiny.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that appearances aren't that important to me, as long as I find it aesthetically acceptable and it goes well, all is good. I do very much prefer a machine with character of some sort though.
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I'm immortal. Well, so far.

[Hairy Ben]

Personally I favour the term 'shonker' rather than 'shitter'.

And oddly enough all my bikes end up as shonkers. Even if they started out brand spanking new.

I'm just lucky that way.
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...and thus true enlightenment is achieved.

I think, therefore I am... I ride a BMW, therefore I smell of wee...

[G]