VW LT35 van won't start - any ideas?

[G]

Van battery was getting low after doing some work on it for a MOT retest. The battery is a bit too low spec battery so usually takes a few goes to start. I did turn it over a load of times then.
Stuck on to charge over night and this morning just get a 'click'.

Had a better look this evening and I can feel the starter motor moving with the 'click'. There's two clicks, one nearish the battery which I presume is the relay it's self, then the starter.

Any ideas on the problem?

Further tried bump starting towed by a car and it just seemed to be juddering even in fifth.
I was thinking it could be hydraulic lock if I dumped a load of fuel in while trying to start it the night before.

[stinkwheel]

You could always try whipping out the glow plugs/injector nozzles and seeing if you spray diesel all over the inside of the bonnet when you turn the key.

EDIT: Thinking out loud. What about pushing it backwards while in gear?
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[G]

Meant to ask that - will taking the injector pipes off sort hydraulic lock?
I presumed there would be some sort of valve.
Taking the glow plugs out is hassle needing a special tool I believe, but the injector pipes are easy to take out.

Towing backwards might be possible - pushing is pretty unlikely in gear I suspect.

[Raffles]

If it is hydraulically locked then the simplist way to remedy the situation is to tow it backwards in top gear.
Removing the injector pipes will not relieve a hydraulic lock.
____________________
A good loser will always be a loser.

[G]

I suspected that might be the case.

Any other ideas apart from hydraulic lock? That was just my guess.
Wondered if I could have knackered something in the starter system too, maybe from continued attemtps to start with the low battery.

Any tips on what I should do for the towing backwards thing? Ie, is it only a few turns of the wheels? Low or high gear?

[Raffles]

[finpos]

If it's a pre-engaged starter - one with a solenoid attached to the motor itself (at it's 99% certain that it is) you can burn out the contacts if it's being buzzing because of a low battery. You'll feel/hear the solenoid itself thump into place, but might not get any power onto the actual starter motor. There should be a short strap between the solenoid and the starter, check it's got 12V on it when the starter is activated.

f.

[G]

That would make sense - unfortunately it's pretty buried or I would have got a multimeter on to it, but was a bit cautious about poking around blind with high currents.

[reggie]

once you get itr to turn over if you do when you try to start it use a heat gun or a blotorch infront of the air intake this usaly starts the most stubben of diesels

[stinkwheel]

[G]

Cheers reggie, don't thin it'll be a problem getting it to start when it does actually turn over unless there's more serious damage in the engine.

Unfortunately we didn't have that big an area to tow it in (smallish car park), but it was the feeling that it wasn't turning over at all in fifth that I was worried about.

[Blue_SV650S]

Er, isn't it just the battery is fecked (some collapse (knacker completely) when you try and recharge after being sulfated)???

Have you tried jump starting it off another car/van?
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The purpose of life is to fight maturity.

[G]

[Danny]

(G Posting)
Got a multimeter around the relay.
12v going into the relay.
None coming out with the starter off.

With the starter held on:
Going in to the starter: 0.8v
Out of the relay: fluctuated between 4.5v and 6v

So, presume this would suggest a dodgy relay or strap?

[Blue_SV650S]

[finpos]

Almost certainly burnt contacts in the solenoid then, caused by it arcing. Take starter off engine (watch out for any "funny looking" bolts, one is often different from the others), cover hands in elastoplasts, take solenoid off starter motor, dis-assemble solenoid, find blackened contact surfaces on end of plunger, clean, re-assemble in proper order

May want to put 12V directly on the starter with a jump lead to check first, it's a pain to do.

f.

[WildGoose]

Take it to the scrappy, and get a better van. I hate LT's there is no room to do bugger all under the bonnet.


Back on topic..

Random and un-ordered thoughts....

Is it common rail? (Just curious)

Is there a good battery on there now then?

It should bump start regardless of battery condition or starter.. when was the last time it was running? Did it start ok then?

Have you ever bumped it before succesfully? I don't often bump anything in 5th.

Is it possible to crack the nut on the fuel line at the injector to see if fuel is getting through, or are they all a bitch to get at?

The starter isn't going to do a damn thing with 0.8v.

As for the electrical issue, it sounds like earth or just generally connectivity issue. Checked the engine to chassis earth straps?

But it should go with a bump regardless of all this (as long as you have a bit of juice for the glow plugs, injectors (if they are electronic) etc, so that is more concerning.

What time do you finish work? I could pop round on way home, to hit things and offer swear words. I have jump leads and two reasonable batteries in the back of the van
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[G]

[Stelmer]

RE the battery, My Astravan wouldn't start 60 mins after being run during the cold spell.

AA bloke put his jumper on it and it just clicked. Jumped it off his van and went ''click''.

Put a multimeter across the battery and it read 11.6v when plugged into the AA van. The battery had an internal short.

I'd just make sure the battery hasn't developed an internal short first.

[G]

Getting a moderately healthy voltage (well, was between 12 and 13v) going into the starter relay, so hopefully not that. Might try and unplug it and just use my car, but you'd think it'd be dead again by now - the lights etc still seem pretty good after a couple of days post-charge.

[G]

Tried the jump lead from the battery to the starter.
It turned the engine over a bit the first time, but it wasn?t held on for long. After that it span the starter motor up pretty fast, but no engine turning.

I?m wondering if I somehow got the negative terminal and was spinning it backwards, which quickly disengaged the clutch?
However, I was fairly sure I had the right bit ? this terminal had a rubber disc around where the terminal went in to the starter motor housing.

So, looking like I?ll have to get the starter off at the least whatever, I presume.

[Stelmer]

Startermotors are earthed through the engine.

Sounds like the 2 copper contacts inside the solenoid are worn. They are replaceable if you want a cheap fix, or you can replace the whole unit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxjPpytfnv0

Startermotors explained.

[finpos]

You need to put 12V onto the solenoid itself as well - it first engages the pinion and then activates the starter motor (thus pre-engaged!).

i.e. it's not like most bike starters which spin the motor and that throws the pinion into the flywheel.

Definitely burnt contacts then, I would have thought.

f.

[G]

Excellent - that nicely explains what I'm seeing.

Would make sense if low current caused the plunger to maybe not move as fast, causing some sparking and thus eating away at the contacts a bit. Presumably the worse it gets, the quicker it gets worse if that's the case.

Any idea where to look for replacement contacts?

[finpos]

That's nearly what happens - solenoid plunger goes in, contact made, motor activated which draws all the current from the battery, solenoid drops out again and disconnects the motor. Now there's spare current! Back goes the solenoid etc. etc. That's what makes the buzzing noise and builds up carbon on the contacts with all the arcing every time it goes in/out.

I usually just file the old contacts down to clean metal again, easy to do.

f.