F***ing DVLA W***ers!! Do I have a leg to stand on? - UPDATE

[the grim reaper]

Back in September 2008 I sold my trusty Peugeot 406 to a bloke from Bournemouth. I took his details at the time and sent off the V5, as per the DVLA's instructions and thought that was that. I didn't remember receiving a letter of acknowledgement but I gave it little thought. In March 2009 I received a speeding ticket, so I filled in the form with the new owners details and explained that I had sold the car back in 2008. I then rang the DVLA and explained that I had sent the V5, they accepted that and took the new owners details over the phone. I thought that was that.

Then today I received a bloody tax fine for £80 as the car tax ran out in March of last year. The letter said that I had ignored loads of letter, which is crap, this is the first letter I have had. I spoke to the credit agency and they said that, as I was still the registered owner, I would have to pay the fine.

This is such a pile of crap, DVLA are, as per usual, incompetent and they are using their incompetence to fine me! Is there anything I can do about this? I want to fight it but not if it will cost me more in the long run. What a bunch of complete and utter c***s.

Cheers

Grim
____________________
Adverts don't always work: Remember that advert, where the army are running across the desert and they have a wounded man on a stretcher. They get to a ravine, the bridge is down and a caption pops up that says, 'What are you thinking?'. I don't know about you but I was thinking, 'Christ, I'm glad I'm not in the f***ing army'.

[Kickstart]

Hi

Hopefully Sickpup will see this.

As I understand it you must tell the DVLA you are no longer the keeper. Having done this you have discharged your liability. It is up to the DVLA to prove that you never informed them (which is pretty much impossible for them to do as they admit to losing so much post).

However they hide behind threats and intimidation to try and con you into giving them the money they demand.

Good luck

All the best

Keith
____________________
Traxpics, track day and racing photographs - Bimota Forum - Bike performance / thrust graphs for choosing gearing

[and]

...

[Itchy]

As an addition to this post where do I stand on the XT being stolen?,

In that they know its been stolen as presumably the police told them, and the fact that I got a tax refund on the XT a week after I sent the tax disc back.

In that IIRC the XT will MOT expire in 3 weeks time too.
____________________
Spain 2008France 2007Big one 2009 We all die. The goal isn't to live forever, the goal is to create something that will. In the end, your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.

[Rockhopper]

I had a similar thing happen, after i sent them five or six polite but firm letters they appear to have given up. It was over three years ago now as well.

[Kickstart]

Hi

Good question Itchy as that appears to be a big hole in the system.

I suspect the DVLA want you to return the log book to them and give up any hope of ever having it returned to you (although no doubt if it was returned you would only find out after it had been stored by the police long enough to build up a bill for about 10 times its value).

All the best

Keith
____________________
Traxpics, track day and racing photographs - Bimota Forum - Bike performance / thrust graphs for choosing gearing

[Paulington]

Yeah like Kickstart said, your liability is now gone as you have sent the letter.

Although, under postal law wouldn't the fact that you sent THEM the V5 be considered an 'offer' and would require the DVLA to mail an 'acceptance' letter which is when the contract would be formed and then it's their problem, not yours?

I am new to this legal stuff, hopefully Sickpup will roll along!
____________________
"Four wheels move the body, two wheels move the soul."
Current Vehicles: '89 Kawasaki KDX200, '99 Yamaha XV535, '00 Honda ST1100 Pan-European, '08 Suzuki GSX-R1000, '08 Mitsubishi Lancer GS4 2.0 TDCi, '15 BMW 1 Series 116d Sport Turbo.
CBT: 27/08/08. Theory: 04/09/09. Module 1: 16/09/09. Module 2: 01/10/09.

[the grim reaper]

Going back through my records, I have found that I did send the V5 but then received a speeding ticket in early 2009. I then wrote to them and gave the new owners details and I did receive the acknowledgement letter. Unfortunately, as I assumed all was sorted, I disposed off it late last year when tidying my filing.

DVLA have given me an address to write to in order to sort out the issue and hopefully that will be the last I hear of it, although I no longer have the new owners details to send off.

Cheers

Grim
____________________
Adverts don't always work: Remember that advert, where the army are running across the desert and they have a wounded man on a stretcher. They get to a ravine, the bridge is down and a caption pops up that says, 'What are you thinking?'. I don't know about you but I was thinking, 'Christ, I'm glad I'm not in the f***ing army'.

[The Artist]

I got a £40 fine for not taxing or sorning a bike I sold ages ago and as I din't receive an acknowledgement letter I was still liable so I paid, the hassle wasn't worth it and yes I know they do it to loads of people but I can't afford to have more fines my way if I didn't pay on time. I did write them a letter but they said pay or else court so I thought fvck it.

[pa_broon74]

[Marcg868]

Challenge them and send them a letter stating what you've wrote here. From experience even if they do send court summons they don't bother turning up anyway. Ignore the threatogram letters they'll soon get bored.
____________________
JACK, MISS YOU LOADS YOU LEGEND.

[JonB]

I sent my V5 for my old car which was written off to the insurance company a couple of months ago and still haven't heard anything from the DVLA? When will I be likely to hear something?
____________________
Be careful whose advice you buy, but, be patient with those who supply it. Advice is a form of nostalgia, dispensing it is a way of fishing the past from the disposal, wiping it off, painting over the ugly parts and recycling it for more than it?s worth.

[WildGoose]

Grim, write a clear and concise letter back, polite but strongly worded, to the address on the top of the letter (not the generic DVLA department you are told to).

Include the details of the owner you sold it to.

Make it clear you informed them, tell them you can prove it.

Make it clear that you won't be paying any fine, and are fully prepared to take legal action.

Tell them you will not tolerate your correspondence being ignored.

Tell them you find their conduct unacceptable.

They make a mint from fines from people who can't be arsed to argue it, and pay it for an easy life. I used to, but i'm past the the point where I can spare £80 for no good reason. I am taxed enough.

I got the major arse after I had about 3 concurrent issues related to them claiming I hadn't informed them of something or rather, or not taxed something, or not SORN'd something.

Don't ring them, it's a waste of time, you will reach the monkey department, and anything they promise you will be lost in the sands of time when it comes to recalling it.

I can send you over a sample letter I have sent if you feel it might help to put something together.

I would take the bastards to court if I have to, fortunately it has never come up.

They go after the lame ducks because it's easier.
____________________
So in other words, he stopped you for being flagrantly in posession of a motorcycle in direct contravention of the Hippies, Darkies and People Whose Face I Don't Like The Look of (Police Powers) Act. 1976

[WildGoose]

Sorry, didn't read the whole thread (about you not having the owners details). Thought it doesn't matter.

[WildGoose]

[Robby]

Have a hunt for Sickpup's thread and being taken to court over SORN by the DVLA, and winning. He references the law that they're in breach of there (Postal act I think)

Write to them as Goose said, and do not, under any circumstances, give in to the bullying and pay up. You can only be made to pay when ordered to by a judge, anything up to that is a pre-court settlement. Seeing as they have no proof, they won't win. Their legal representatives are also shockingly bad and poorly prepared, generally taking the view that they must be right because they're DVLA.

[Fortuna]

Postal act, deemed delivered once posted.

[smegbrains]

How does this apply when they come back with the argument about sending you an acknowledgement letter within 3 weeks?
____________________
Current Bike: Honda CBR 600F
Ex Bikes: Suzuki GX 125

[map]

[smegbrains]

Do the same postal rules not apply to the DVLA?

I am asking these questions as I am in the same situation. I reported my car scrapped a while back and left it at that until I got a fine for not taxing it.
____________________
Current Bike: Honda CBR 600F
Ex Bikes: Suzuki GX 125

[the grim reaper]

I've just sent a letter back stating the details that I did receive a confirmation letter back in 2008 (November) and that, as far as I'm concerned, I had fulfilled their requirements. It's annoying that I don't have the owners previous details or the letter but, after over a year, I chucked them just before christmas.

I do have the details of the Ebay sale though and the buyer is still active, if an auction appears then I'm buying it and getting their address, then I'll send the item back as not as advertised I've also let the DVLA know that it was an Ebay sale and that I have requested the buyers details, not that I think they'll reply. I also happened to mention that I'm out of work at the moment, hopefully they'll realise that there's no point in chasing me for money

Cheers

Grim
____________________
Adverts don't always work: Remember that advert, where the army are running across the desert and they have a wounded man on a stretcher. They get to a ravine, the bridge is down and a caption pops up that says, 'What are you thinking?'. I don't know about you but I was thinking, 'Christ, I'm glad I'm not in the f***ing army'.

[the grim reaper]

Right, here's how it now stands, DVLA are still holding me liable for the £80 fine but they are happy to remove my details from the vehicle AFTER I have paid the fine. This is basically blackmail, trying to make me pay £80 in order to save me getting more fines in future. This is all because they were incapable of updating their records and I will never throw another acknowledgement letter away again.

I would love to fight this in court but I really can't afford to lose, which is what they are relying on, I guess. If a dog died and a hyena then ate the dog and shit it out and a fly landed on the shit and ate some of it, then puked, then you would be getting near to the sub-human level of scum that the DVLA are. I am so bloody angry at being ripped off by a bunch of inept, conniving, black-mailing liars.

I'm off to play some COD and kill some American 12 year olds. Grrrr

Cheers

Grim
____________________
Adverts don't always work: Remember that advert, where the army are running across the desert and they have a wounded man on a stretcher. They get to a ravine, the bridge is down and a caption pops up that says, 'What are you thinking?'. I don't know about you but I was thinking, 'Christ, I'm glad I'm not in the f***ing army'.

[pa_broon74]

Mmm.

You should look in to how many people have actually been taken to court by the DVLA. Usually they send a debt collection agency but they can do nothing without a court order so are great fun to goad. (Its bailliffs that have the draconian powers, but they only get involved after court proceedings.)

Ask them to write to you giving the terms under which they'd be prepared to remove your interest in the vehicle (that you no longer have it in your possession.) If you get it, you have proof the DVLA are trying to obtain money by menace.

Also, remember, (if they even bother which is moot, because the vast majority of people cave in before court proceedings) it'll be in a magistrates court where you can represent yourself. Also, under prorugation of jurisdiction, it would need to be one local to you, not to the debt collection agency. That puts 99% of them off straight away.

As I said, I know it's a pain in the arse, but these things are always worth fighting. I always fight these things, it's good entertainment, especially getting the debt collection call centre staff to lose their tempers; terribly unprofessional...

In future, do everything on line. You get an acknowledgement email which is far easier to manage.


____________________
Didn't catch anything.

[the grim reaper]

Woohoo, they have given it up. The DVLA have just written to me telling me that they are happy that I no longer own the car and that I don't need to pay the fine - result! I'll be very bloody careful in future when I sell vehicles though.

Cheers

Grim
____________________
Adverts don't always work: Remember that advert, where the army are running across the desert and they have a wounded man on a stretcher. They get to a ravine, the bridge is down and a caption pops up that says, 'What are you thinking?'. I don't know about you but I was thinking, 'Christ, I'm glad I'm not in the f***ing army'.

[Wafer_Thin_Ham]

Glad to hear this is all nicely squared away for you.
____________________
My Flickr