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daemonoid
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Joined: 27 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: 17:36 - 31 Mar 2010    Post subject: Petition approved... Reply with quote
My petition has been approved!

https://petitions.number10.gov.uk/carweight/

sign up or moan about how much you disagree with me at your leisure...
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Visitor Q
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PostPosted: 17:40 - 31 Mar 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
A resounding 'meh' from me pal.
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Finglonga
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PostPosted: 17:42 - 31 Mar 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'll stick with my solid, heavy big engined car thanks. Wink
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Faldo
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PostPosted: 17:42 - 31 Mar 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
You would also reduce impact energy in crashes thus reducing the likelihood of injury to all road users


Are there any official reports that you could point me to that would back that up?
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mad4it028
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PostPosted: 17:43 - 31 Mar 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
i likes my heavey car Middle Finger
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Hex
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PostPosted: 17:44 - 31 Mar 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Laughing Im so glad I took 30 seconds out of my life to look at this.
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Bubbs
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PostPosted: 19:08 - 31 Mar 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
surely they are trying to make cars lighter?? Compared to cars of the 80's - 90's car's are much lighter (I have no proof).

In order for us to have lighter cars, we need lighter materials, which means more money..... Ain't going to happen really.
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Robby
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PostPosted: 19:18 - 31 Mar 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Bubbs wrote:
surely they are trying to make cars lighter?? Compared to cars of the 80's - 90's car's are much lighter (I have no proof).

In order for us to have lighter cars, we need lighter materials, which means more money..... Ain't going to happen really.


Wrong. They're generally bigger and heavier. Safety is heavy, additional electrics are heavy, cat converters, EGR valves, Fuel injection, additional fuel pumps are all heavy. Wider wheels and tyres are heavy.

Everything modern adds weight.
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Wafer_Thin_Ham
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PostPosted: 19:59 - 31 Mar 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Robby wrote:
Bubbs wrote:
surely they are trying to make cars lighter?? Compared to cars of the 80's - 90's car's are much lighter (I have no proof).

In order for us to have lighter cars, we need lighter materials, which means more money..... Ain't going to happen really.


Wrong. They're generally bigger and heavier. Safety is heavy, additional electrics are heavy, cat converters, EGR valves, Fuel injection, additional fuel pumps are all heavy. Wider wheels and tyres are heavy.

Everything modern adds weight.


Spot on Robby.

Thumbs Up

Surely it would be more productive to introduce maximum weights on freight on the roads?
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Al
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PostPosted: 20:03 - 31 Mar 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'll sign it if you change it to all cars must have a 25% reduction in weight and a 50% increase in power.
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 20:30 - 31 Mar 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Big_Ham wrote:

Surely it would be more productive to introduce maximum weights on freight on the roads?


There are already limits. Plenty of lorries on the road could happily carry far more.

Cars are getting far heavier. 80s and 90s ones were bad enough and current ones are even worse (one reason why engines have had to get more powerful).

However not sure that the added weight is anything to do with anyone other than the person who chooses to buy a lumbering lump. No more so than the power of a bike is anything to do with anyone other than the buyer.

All the best

Keith
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Flip
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PostPosted: 20:32 - 31 Mar 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Who gives a fuck how heavy your car is as long as the engine is powerful enough to make it quick? You've got too much time on your hands, man. Confused

Quote:
OMG I've ran over a kitten! If only I'd bought the lite model, it may have lived.


Last edited by Flip on 20:36 - 31 Mar 2010; edited 1 time in total
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Wafer_Thin_Ham
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PostPosted: 20:32 - 31 Mar 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kickstart wrote:

There are already limits. Plenty of lorries on the road could happily carry far more.


Fair.

Is it not worth making these limits prohibitively low in order to force freight off of the roads and onto other means?

Say rail. Although I'm sure the infrastructure is now too poor to cope, and we went the opposite way in Thatcher's time.
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 20:36 - 31 Mar 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Big_Ham wrote:

Is it not worth making these limits prohibitively low in order to force freight off of the roads and onto other means?


How much more are you prepared to pay for anything you buy? Rail means 2 extra loading / unloading operation, is slow, inflexible and expensive.

All the best

Keith
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Wafer_Thin_Ham
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PostPosted: 20:59 - 31 Mar 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kickstart wrote:

How much more are you prepared to pay for anything you buy? Rail means 2 extra loading / unloading operation, is slow, inflexible and expensive.


Hmm, I see your point. However there must be a more cost effective way of doing things?
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 21:18 - 31 Mar 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hi

Maybe, but how do you define efficiency?

Basic fuel consumption railways are good. Trouble is that they very rarely go from and to where you want (how many supermarkets or car dealerships have a railway siding around the back Wink ) so you need to get things to and from the railway. Which takes ages and adds a large extra cost. Plus means a likely far greater distance traveled by the goods which probably removes the fuel consumption saving.

Added to which maintaining the railway lines is expensive.

The old branch line network did give a reasonable coverage. But plenty were virtually unused. The contents of a couple of trains a day isn't much to share the costs of running a line between.

All the best

Keith
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Wafer_Thin_Ham
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PostPosted: 21:22 - 31 Mar 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kickstart wrote:
Hi

Maybe, but how do you define efficiency?


Surely it's getting something from one place to another with minimal cost to all parties.

Perhaps this is asking too much given that by road is comfortably cheapest the retailer, but it kills the roads with lorries clogging up the roads, and the damage they cause (Although that's negated by the tax).


If only air freight was cheaper.

Someone needs to invent an air powered superhelicopter than can land in a small area.
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 21:35 - 31 Mar 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hi

Air freight has high fuel costs (just with negligible tax on the fuel to make it cheaper).

Roads are cheap, and the fuel and VED easily outweighs the damage. Trouble is that the motorway network is fairly pathetic so gets clogged up easily (you can see how bad we are in comparison to other countries here)

All the best

Keith
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MarJay
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Joined: 15 Sep 2003
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PostPosted: 21:52 - 31 Mar 2010    Post subject: Re: Petition approved... Reply with quote
daemonoid wrote:
My petition has been approved!

https://petitions.number10.gov.uk/carweight/

sign up or moan about how much you disagree with me at your leisure...


So, daemonoid. You must own either a Caterfield, a SMART or SMART Roadster or a Lotus of some description then?
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Carl_steveo
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PostPosted: 22:49 - 31 Mar 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
I never really saw the point in the government approving petitions. Do they use the paper they are written on to fuel the fires of 10 downing street or something because nothing is ever done about the things being petitioned about.
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Faldo
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PostPosted: 23:01 - 31 Mar 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Carl_steveo wrote:
I never really saw the point in the government approving petitions. Do they use the paper they are written on to fuel the fires of 10 downing street or something because nothing is ever done about the things being petitioned about.


That's because 99% of them are ill thought out bollocks Shifty .
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daemonoid
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PostPosted: 00:41 - 01 Apr 2010    Post subject: Re: Petition approved... Reply with quote
MarJay wrote:
So, daemonoid. You must own either a Caterfield, a SMART or SMART Roadster or a Lotus of some description then?


You've probably even seen my smart roadster...

Yeah, I practice what I preach. Next car will be a lotus, but I really love the smart so it won't be too soon.

The reason I added the petition was that there are so many complaints about the damage cars do to the environment etc yet there's a really simple solution - don't move 2 tons with you every time you go to the shops. As bikers that's something we can all appreciate. The improved acceleration, deceleration and cornering is a bonus too.
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daemonoid
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PostPosted: 00:42 - 01 Apr 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Faldo wrote:
Quote:
You would also reduce impact energy in crashes thus reducing the likelihood of injury to all road users


Are there any official reports that you could point me to that would back that up?


F=ma

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton's_laws_of_motion
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Faldo
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PostPosted: 00:52 - 01 Apr 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
daemonoid wrote:


F=ma

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton's_laws_of_motion


WTF does that prove? There are thousands more variables to take into consideration, mostly concerning crumple zones, safety cells, how different materials cope in a collision etc.

Surely there's some solid research backing up your statement?
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daemonoid
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PostPosted: 01:23 - 01 Apr 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Faldo wrote:
WTF does that prove? There are thousands more variables to take into consideration, mostly concerning crumple zones, safety cells, how different materials cope in a collision etc.

Surely there's some solid research backing up your statement?


First up I am relying on fundamental laws of physics to back up my argument rather than studies in an area that is fraught with conflicts of interest...

So, a couple of hypothetical scenarios all based on the assumptions that crumple zones etc are equal (for now)...

1. heavy car hits heavy car high mass means high force.
2. light car hits light car, lower mass == lower force.
3. heavy car hits light car, medium force mainly directed against the smaller car (F=ma again... a is higher for the smaller car in an impact)

Meaning (still assuming crumple zones etc) that we want to head for '2'. Unfortunately, because everyone is scared of everyone else we have an arms race where essentially larger and larger is better. It's a classic problem of what's best for everyone isn't the same as what's best for the individual, hence the need to legislate for it.

And to the assumptions:
Materials/safety cells - the tridion safety cell of a smart car is lighter and stronger than a traditional steel cell. F1 (and other car racing) safety cells are incredibly strong and light. This is how I expect manufacturers to be able to achieve weight reductions.
Crumple zones - two points here, if average collision force could be reduced crumple zones wouldn't need to be as large and again look to the crumple zones in racing - F1 cars are incredibly light yet still* have adequate crumple zones for incredibly high speed accidents.

*maybe the 'yet still' should be replaced with 'thus'.

Of course all this talk of using better/lighter materials creates 2 compromises - price and luxury. Price will be improved by economies of scale and I would argue that people ought to realise that they shouldn't take their living room with them on every trip to see their nan.
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