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Artur
Nitrous Nuisance



Joined: 30 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: 15:29 - 13 Apr 2010    Post subject: Documents Reply with quote
Hi guys, what documents we have to carry with us when riding, or otherwise you get fined?
I've been riding for 5 months now and all I carry with me is my driving license.

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Alexio
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Joined: 27 Aug 2009
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PostPosted: 15:43 - 13 Apr 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
It's a good idea to carry your drivers licence but you aren't required to carry anything at all as far as I'm aware. Once the police find out who you are they can find out very quickly what licence you have and if you are taxed and insured.

I was told when I very first started riding that I was supposed to carry my CBT certificate around with me but I don't think that's correct and I've never ever even been pulled over before to be honest.
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will never give up his CG. I look at my fuel gauge more as a progress bar than a fuel gauge.
G: With my GSXR I do often effectively use it as a scooter with a clutch in town.
ms51ves3: why does it need 500 miles? Are you teaching it how to be a piston?
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t121anf
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Joined: 23 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: 15:53 - 13 Apr 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
i carry none and have no intention of starting to carry any
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P.addy
Red Rocket



Joined: 14 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: 16:01 - 13 Apr 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Carry nothing, lose nothing Thumbs Up
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DrDonnyBrago
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Joined: 03 Jan 2010
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PostPosted: 16:18 - 13 Apr 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Technically you must carry everything by law

Police do however understand this is a bit unreasonable so they issue producers, i.e. give you some time to get it all together and bring it down the station - minimises the risk of ID theft, vehicle cloning etc.

You dont NEED to carry anything, but carrying your licence helps Thumbs Up
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Carl_steveo
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Joined: 23 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: 16:18 - 13 Apr 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
I carry nothing but my mobile. I don't even wear boxer shorts sometimes. Rolling Eyes
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yuri2085
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Joined: 05 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: 16:23 - 13 Apr 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
DonnyBrago wrote:
Technically you must carry everything by law



Well that's just not true.
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DrDonnyBrago
World Chat Champion



Joined: 03 Jan 2010
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PostPosted: 16:32 - 13 Apr 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
yuri2085 wrote:
DonnyBrago wrote:
Technically you must carry everything by law



Well that's just not true.


Section 137 of the road traffic act 1998

Production of certificates and licences to constables and authorised persons (1) A person to whom a certificate prescribed under section 135 of this Act is issued, or to whom a licence under this Part of this Act is granted, must, on being so required by a constable or any person authorised in writing by the Secretary of State in that behalf, produce the certificate or licence for examination.
(2) Where—
(a) the name of a person is removed from the register, or
(b) a licence granted under this Part of this Act to a person expires or is revoked,
then, if that person fails to satisfy an obligation imposed on him by section 136 of this Act, a constable or a person authorised in writing by the Secretary of State in that behalf may require him to produce any such certificate issued to him or the licence, and upon its being produced may seize it and deliver it to the Registrar.
(3) A person who is required under subsection (1) or (2) above to produce a document and fails to do so is, subject to subsection (4) below, guilty of an offence.
(4) In proceedings against any person for an offence under subsection (3) above, it shall be a defence for him to show that—
(a) within seven days beginning with the day following that on which the production of the document was so required, it was produced—
(i) where the requirement was made by a constable, at a police station specified at the time the production was required by the person required to produce the document,
(ii) where the requirement was made by a person other than a constable, at a place specified at that time by that person, or
(b) the document was produced at that police station or, as the case may be, place as soon as was reasonably practicable, or
(c) it was not reasonably practicable for it to be produced at that police station or, as the case may be, place before the day on which the proceedings were commenced,
and for the purposes of this subsection the laying of the information or, in Scotland, the service of the complaint on the accused shall be treated as the commencement of the proceedings.


In summary, you must carry your documents; however it is a defence under this same act to produce them at a police station at a later date.

Middle Finger
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DrDonnyBrago
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Joined: 03 Jan 2010
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PostPosted: 16:33 - 13 Apr 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
wqdweqdw

Last edited by DrDonnyBrago on 16:38 - 13 Apr 2010; edited 1 time in total
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DrDonnyBrago
World Chat Champion



Joined: 03 Jan 2010
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PostPosted: 16:33 - 13 Apr 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
My bad, page froze ended up submitting it 3 times Thumbs Up

Last edited by DrDonnyBrago on 16:37 - 13 Apr 2010; edited 1 time in total
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Alexio
World Chat Champion



Joined: 27 Aug 2009
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PostPosted: 16:45 - 13 Apr 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
DonnyBrago wrote:
My bad, page froze ended up submitting it 3 times Thumbs Up


Next time click on the little x button next to the edit button which is displayed on the most current post of the thread only to delete the extra post Thumbs Up
____________________
will never give up his CG. I look at my fuel gauge more as a progress bar than a fuel gauge.
G: With my GSXR I do often effectively use it as a scooter with a clutch in town.
ms51ves3: why does it need 500 miles? Are you teaching it how to be a piston?
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Artur
Nitrous Nuisance



Joined: 30 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: 16:45 - 13 Apr 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thanks for the quick replys Smile
I'm more relaxed now if they stop me. But I will still carry my license with me, just like to have some ID with me.

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yuri2085
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Joined: 05 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: 16:57 - 13 Apr 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
DonnyBrago wrote:



In summary, you must carry your documents; however it is a defence under this same act to produce them at a police station at a later date.

Middle Finger


So what you mean to say is 'technically you don't need to carry your documents'?

Maybe we are arguing about the use of the word technically here, I see your point that 'producing it later' seems to be a defense rather than 'normal'.

Using the word technically (in the way I think you mean it). Technically, you don't need to carry your documents because the law has technicalities which allow you not to.


I am not just being petty, my main objection to your comment was how misleading it is, you implied 'most police' will let you produce it. But 'technically' you need to have it with you. Meaning if a policeman doesn't 'let you off' then you are in trouble.

Clearly you understand the law and know this not to be so, but it was misleading to say you must carry your documents.

Last edited by yuri2085 on 17:29 - 13 Apr 2010; edited 1 time in total
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27cows
World Chat Champion



Joined: 01 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: 17:10 - 13 Apr 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
I carry all my docs, bar the V5. Main reason being that RAC (and probably other breakdown companies) require two pieces of ID or they'll not help you. Insurance and license count as acceptable ID. Not that I've yet had to call the buggers, but even so.
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kitty kat
World Chat Champion



Joined: 20 Jun 2007
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PostPosted: 17:16 - 13 Apr 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
I have never needed id to be helped by AA. I have cover now by virtue of my bank account and have never needed to prove I am the account holder, in the past I purchased AA cover and even then never had to prove who I was.
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Alexio
World Chat Champion



Joined: 27 Aug 2009
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PostPosted: 17:52 - 13 Apr 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yeah, all the AA wanted from me was my AA membership card and even then only for my membership number.
____________________
will never give up his CG. I look at my fuel gauge more as a progress bar than a fuel gauge.
G: With my GSXR I do often effectively use it as a scooter with a clutch in town.
ms51ves3: why does it need 500 miles? Are you teaching it how to be a piston?
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Paulington
World Chat Champion



Joined: 11 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: 18:17 - 13 Apr 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
I carry my driving licence, my counterpart and my restriction certificate.

Less because I feel I have to, but because it's a force of habit and I know they are in my wallet.
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"Four wheels move the body, two wheels move the soul."
Current Vehicles: '89 Kawasaki KDX200, '99 Yamaha XV535, '00 Honda ST1100 Pan-European, '08 Suzuki GSX-R1000, '08 Mitsubishi Lancer GS4 2.0 TDCi, '15 BMW 1 Series 116d Sport Turbo.
CBT: 27/08/08. Theory: 04/09/09. Module 1: 16/09/09. Module 2: 01/10/09.
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DrDonnyBrago
World Chat Champion



Joined: 03 Jan 2010
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PostPosted: 18:30 - 13 Apr 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
yuri2085 wrote:
So what you mean to say is 'technically you don't need to carry your documents'?


No, I mean technically you do need to:

technically /t'eknɪkli/
1.If something is technically the case, it is the case according to a strict interpretation of facts, laws, or rules, but may not be important or relevant in a particular situation

The law is that you must carry your documents, however it is a reasonable defence to produce them at a later date.


yuri2085 wrote:
Maybe we are arguing about the use of the word technically here, I see your point that 'producing it later' seems to be a defense rather than 'normal'.

Using the word technically (in the way I think you mean it). Technically, you don't need to carry your documents because the law has technicalities which allow you not to.


Technically, you need to carry the documents however realistically you will be spared prosecution if you can produce them within a few days.


yuri2085 wrote:
I am not just being petty, my main objection to your comment was how misleading it is, you implied 'most police' will let you produce it. But 'technically' you need to have it with you. Meaning if a policeman doesn't 'let you off' then you are in trouble.

Clearly you understand the law and know this not to be so, but it was misleading to say you must carry your documents.



I did not imply most police would let you produce it, I stated that technically you must carry everything however in reality you do not need to. You have misinterpreted my comments, my final comment was that you need not carry anything, however carrying your licence helps - see below.

Quote:
Technically you must carry everything by law

Police do however understand this is a bit unreasonable so they issue producers, i.e. give you some time to get it all together and bring it down the station - minimises the risk of ID theft, vehicle cloning etc.

You dont NEED to carry anything, but carrying your licence helps
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Ichy
World Chat Champion



Joined: 15 Jul 2005
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PostPosted: 18:40 - 13 Apr 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
27cows wrote:
Main reason being that RAC (and probably other breakdown companies) require two pieces of ID or they'll not help you.


Never had this happen, is it down to the type of cover? I just phone them up, they ask for the registration and that's it.
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yuri2085
World Chat Champion



Joined: 05 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: 18:46 - 13 Apr 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
DonnyBrago wrote:


I did not imply most police would let you produce it, I stated that technically you must carry everything however in reality you do not need to.



'Police do however understand this is a bit unreasonable so they issue producers'

To me, that is implying that most police only issue producers if they are 'reasonable'.

Like I said, we are apparently arguing about the application of the definition of 'technically'. There are no extraneous or real life circumstances involved. You do not have to carry your documents 'technically' because 'technically' you would not be guilty of any offence under the law once you had produced them. You obviously dislike my interpretation but no quoting random definitions will change my mind.

I do believe your comment was misleading as it implied there was a chance you could get in trouble if you do not carry your documents. (I...at least... inferred it). Clarity of the law is what was being asked in this thread. The law is quite clear that you don't need to carry them.


If your final comment is read taking into account your petty use of the word 'technically' then one might suggest you dont 'need' to carry...or even have any documents. Unless of course you wish to reach some end (which as you suggest may be achieved my carrying your licence for convenience).

My reading of your comment is also influenced by this (seemingly forgotten) line 'i.e. give you some time to get it all together and bring it down the station - minimises the risk of ID theft, vehicle cloning etc. ' but I don't really feel like explaining how. =]

Perhaps my reading of your post was not very charitable but my reply was lazy and only intended to bring clarity for the needs of the original poster.
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JP7
World Chat Champion



Joined: 22 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: 19:48 - 13 Apr 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Leaving out the word "technically"...

If you fail to produce your documents at the roadside when requested by a constable, you are there and then committing an offence of failing to produce.

However, in the real world it isn't practical or safe to carry everything with you, so you are given 7 days grace in the form of a producer, to produce at a police station.

Producers aren't used so much any more, as the police can check licence, MOT and insurance at the roadside.
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c-m
World Chat Champion



Joined: 12 May 2006
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PostPosted: 19:54 - 13 Apr 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
27cows wrote:
I carry all my docs, bar the V5. Main reason being that RAC (and probably other breakdown companies) require two pieces of ID or they'll not help you. Insurance and license count as acceptable ID. Not that I've yet had to call the buggers, but even so.


Not sure that is the case. Had the AA (via ADAC) out 5 times over the last two years and didn't need to show them anything other than my membership card after they'd already taken me home.
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yuri2085
World Chat Champion



Joined: 05 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: 00:31 - 14 Apr 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
JP7 wrote:


However, in the real world it isn't practical or safe to carry everything with you, so you are given 7 days grace in the form of a producer, to produce at a police station.

.


It can't be entirely impracticable, as in the US (most states at least) you are required to carry license and registration with you at all times.

We in britain so far don't like the idea of documents which we must by law carry around with us in our daily business and that was always my interpretation of the reason for the difference between ours and the US law.
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JP7
World Chat Champion



Joined: 22 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: 07:10 - 14 Apr 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
yuri2085 wrote:
JP7 wrote:


However, in the real world it isn't practical or safe to carry everything with you, so you are given 7 days grace in the form of a producer, to produce at a police station.

.


It can't be entirely impracticable, as in the US (most states at least) you are required to carry license and registration with you at all times.

We in britain so far don't like the idea of documents which we must by law carry around with us in our daily business and that was always my interpretation of the reason for the difference between ours and the US law.

Yes, it's a fair point, but they don't have an equivalent to a producer in the US as far as I'm aware, they're tougher with it. In this country there's the perception that if you leave documents in your car it'll be broken into and your identity stolen! Plus we have the photocards which many think is their licence, when in fact the paper half is equally if not more important. One small document would be much easier.
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27cows
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Joined: 01 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: 07:53 - 14 Apr 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
The RAC small print says they require two pieces of ID, so I thought it was better to be safe than sorry.

It's pretty rare to get a producer these days. They know straight away if your bike is taxed/MOTed/insured and such. You only get pulled if you're doing something silly.
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