Resend my activation email : Register : Log in 
BCF: Bike Chat Forums


how to get competitive

Reply to topic
Bike Chat Forums Index -> Racing & Trackdays
View previous topic : View next topic  
Author Message

Ben.
World Chat Champion



Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Karma :

PostPosted: 21:42 - 22 Apr 2010    Post subject: how to get competitive Reply with quote

Done my first track day and loved it, already booked up my second day. I thought I would be crap, but my instructor said I was quick for my first day, got a lot to work on to get quicker though, mainly lines and body position.

My point of this post is, say after doing another 10 or so track days and getting quick enough to enter competitions, what would be a good series to enter? and how quick are these people in the competitions?
Don't have any money really so would like to get a realistic idea of how much it costs a season as well.
Bike prep costs are enough to start with, but are you using new tyres every day? how often do you go through pads etc. [/img]
____________________
follow my racing season
Race bike - R6
Road bike - sv650
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

G
The Voice of Reason



Joined: 02 Feb 2002
Karma :

PostPosted: 21:59 - 22 Apr 2010    Post subject: Re: how to get competitive Reply with quote

Have a look at lap times on the various british club racing sites and mylaps.com.

Once you can hold your own in an average fast group, it's reasonable to consider racing.
I'd suggest it's only worth shelling out for it if you're getting to the point you don't find many people to 'play' with on trackdays and you're confident you'll be mixing it up with others on track in a race - doesn't seem any point to pay your money and end up circulating on your own at the back (or even on your own at the front, might as well be in a faster class etc.)

Season can cost from £5k for the very cheapest (ie yamaha past masters on a not so competitive bike) to £10k maybe for minitwins and much more for trying to be competitive in supersport 600s (know of people easily spending £40-£50k a year.)

Generally new tyres every weekend, can sell the part worn ones for a bit. New pads once or twice a year, lots of oil changes. Then fairings etc are consumables and will have to eventually be replaced when they can no longer be patched up.

Anyway, I'd say keep doing trackdays until you find yourself in the fast group (which may not be too long, but remember to only get a little faster at a time Smile ) and go from there Smile.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Fawbish
World Chat Champion



Joined: 27 Jan 2006
Karma :

PostPosted: 10:52 - 23 Apr 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

For reference - I've just done my fourth trackday - my fifth is next month.

The bike (for the last one I did) was possibly the best its ever been (completely stock but most things freshened up - only thing I could do with is better brakes really) - but still, its an 11 year old heavy 600.

Off a 'rough' timing (ie a stopwatch) one of my fastest laps (top of inters) was 3 seconds off last place in EMRA F600's (33 riders) and 15 seconds off first. (F600's are all almost new 600's with tuning)

I reckon on a completely standard bike, I could keep improving to mix it up in fast group within 2/3 more trackdays. Then the bikes gonna have to have some more money thrown at it - (just spent 600 quid getting it back to good standard...still with road fairings and tape Laughing )


All this before I've even considered my ACU licence. Doh!
____________________
"Oh....it looks like Average Joe's is forfeiting the match!" - "Yeah, its a risky strategy but lets see if it pays off for 'em Cotton."
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

chris-red
Have you considered a TDM?



Joined: 21 Sep 2005
Karma :

PostPosted: 14:08 - 23 Apr 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

The cheapest is the MZ cup Somthing like the Hornet cup may be worth doing.
____________________
Well, you know what they say. If you want to save the world, you have to push a few old ladies down the stairs.
Skudd:- Perhaps she just thinks you are a window licker and is being nice just in case she becomes another Jill Dando.
WANTED:- Fujinon (Fuji) M42 (Screw on) lenses, let me know if you have anything.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

G
The Voice of Reason



Joined: 02 Feb 2002
Karma :

PostPosted: 14:22 - 23 Apr 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

MZs are actually a bit expensive if you want to be moderately competitive as the engines need a reasonable amount of work. Yamaha past masters is a bit cheaper, but still got to spend a bit to be at the front.
Minitwins at Bemsee at least you need a new set of tyres every weekend or to be very talented to be competitive (and if you are very talented, you'll probably get frustrated on the tired rubber anyway). I rode with a Hornet cup racer at Brands a few years ago and was surprised to see I was doing pretty similarly to him on the trackday - as he was leading the 'club' level competition - I finished that year 10th in the BMCRC clubman minitwins as a comparison.
The ducati thingy class may be worth considering as I think that's relatively a bit less competitive and the lower power means tyre changes aren't such an issue.
Similarly, the 500cc twin racing, not sure what's available right now, I'd hope is pretty cheap, if not a bit scary with the limits on suspension!
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Deano
World Chat Champion



Joined: 17 Feb 2003
Karma :

PostPosted: 15:11 - 23 Apr 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi mate,
if budget and laptimes are a worry then I would consider EMRA and NGRCC.

There are others if the logisitics is a bit too far as they mostly based round mallory (emar) and Pembrey (NGRCC)
They both offer a roadstock series which really limits the how much money can be spent on the bikes and the pace is slower than the full on series like F600 and powerbike/open championships.

im doing my first rookie year and bought a shed load of tyres for £400 and they have lasted me 6 months so far, you can live with 2nd hand scrubs until you get to 3-4 seconds off the front with no problems and im on a 1000cc.

Pads aren't soo pad as they will last from 2 meetings or trackdays depending on weather and track.. all depends on how you like the amount of bite and feel.


To increase your pace nothing beats tracktime just pick a local track that you know you woulld like to race at and keep going round and round then seek advice as to what you are doing wrong, work out what times you need to be doing and invest in a camera to see what you are doing and improve on it.

costs can range from £200 for an EMRA meet to £450 for a full weekend with NGRCC or Michelin Power Cup is £220 for entry fees.

you'll then need to add travelling costs, tyres and fuel.
Find sponsorship, someone who is willing to put stuff through there books as marketing as this will help considerably.

for ideas of laptimes to win a rookie race you are looking at:
57 seconds at EMRA, mallory
52 seconds at MRO, brands indy
1:12 MRO, Snetterton

You should be able to get close to that with fast group pace at trackdays but aim for faster end of the group, make an effort to speak to racers on the day to compare where you are at, just dont try and race them.
____________________
Dean Stone #777
EMRA 2012 final standings, Formula 600s 3rd, Superstock 600s 3rd.
www.triplesevenracing.co.uk: www.ljmotorcyclerepairs.co.uk www.gettaylored.co.uk BN RaceScience, Now officially run out of money to carry on racing Sad
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Wafer_Thin_Ham
Super Spammer



Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Karma :

PostPosted: 18:28 - 23 Apr 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deano wrote:

52 seconds at MRO, brands indy


MRO times from Brands Indy were 48-49 seconds on the stocks IIRC.

52s BMCRC rookie race.

MRO and BMCRC run side by side, but MRO is a fair bit quicker usually.
____________________
My Flickr
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

garth
World Chat Champion



Joined: 15 Dec 2004
Karma :

PostPosted: 18:37 - 23 Apr 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Desmodue is one of the cheapest out there.

No wets, no warmers, can get a well specced bike for £1500 or so. Race on Diablos.

Nowhere near as quick as an IL4 600 though.

I'd reccomend not starting, it's addictive and then it'll be all you want to do. You'll get very frustrated when you go quicker on a TD than a race, and are still 2 or 3 seconds off the leaders pace. Then you'll lose your well paid job and not be able to afford it anymore. This will make you bitter.*

Racing costs ALOT.

* Definately not what has happened to me Rolling Eyes
____________________
You ain't a has been if you never was
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Gazdaman
I did a trackday!!!



Joined: 12 Aug 2004
Karma :

PostPosted: 20:12 - 23 Apr 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you've only done 1 trackday, it's still VERY early days. Do a shitload more trackdays and reevaluate your situation then.

Gaz
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website You must be logged in to rate posts

Deano
World Chat Champion



Joined: 17 Feb 2003
Karma :

PostPosted: 22:13 - 23 Apr 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Big_Ham wrote:
Deano wrote:

52 seconds at MRO, brands indy


MRO times from Brands Indy were 48-49 seconds on the stocks IIRC.

52s BMCRC rookie race.

MRO and BMCRC run side by side, but MRO is a fair bit quicker usually.

I was referring to ROOKIE times not f600 or open as they are 3-4 seconds quicker at all tracks and pretty much any club
____________________
Dean Stone #777
EMRA 2012 final standings, Formula 600s 3rd, Superstock 600s 3rd.
www.triplesevenracing.co.uk: www.ljmotorcyclerepairs.co.uk www.gettaylored.co.uk BN RaceScience, Now officially run out of money to carry on racing Sad
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Wafer_Thin_Ham
Super Spammer



Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Karma :

PostPosted: 09:21 - 24 Apr 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deano wrote:

I was referring to ROOKIE times not f600 or open as they are 3-4 seconds quicker at all tracks and pretty much any club


Aye, but I didn't think MRO had a rookie class for 600s??
____________________
My Flickr
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Ben.
World Chat Champion



Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Karma :

PostPosted: 15:55 - 24 Apr 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

can someone give me a link to all the different race classes and where the events are, and if possible lap times.

for example:
mini twins - what are the rules and regs for this class?
what other classes are there?

thanks for all the help. Really appreciated.
____________________
follow my racing season
Race bike - R6
Road bike - sv650
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Old Git Racing
World Chat Champion



Joined: 08 Aug 2009
Karma :

PostPosted: 17:06 - 24 Apr 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do a search for your local club, where are you? You can then see what classes they do and buy or prep your bike to suit. Go to one of their meetings and chat to a few people. You need to join a club to get a licence and being a novice you will need to go on a training day, look on the ACU website for details.

Trackdays and racing are completely different. I race and have occasionally instructed on trackdays and maybe the fastest 2 or 3 on one could cut it in a club race. If you want to race just do it and save the money from the trackdays.

Cost depends on how far you want to go. Talent can overcome lack of money to a degree but you can;t do it on nothing. For a typical clubbie budget 3-£400 per meeting depending on the bike used. Add in crash damage and new helmets, gear etc and over a 10 meeting season at the very basic level you wont have any change out of 5K.

If you do it don't do it in a half arsed way. don't skimp on prep and be prepared to bin it 4 or 5 times a year if you want to run near the front (they won't be all down to you either). 4 people have been killed at meetings I've been at, not always their fault, you prepared to risk that?

If you are then there is no feeling like finishing your first race, getting your first trophy, winning for the first time and then being club champion. Then go back and do a trackday and think 'how slow is this?'

OGR
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Ben.
World Chat Champion



Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Karma :

PostPosted: 17:34 - 24 Apr 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

okay i've been on crmc website, and looking up on the rules and regs for bikes.

super-stock 600, i was thinking, already got an r6, no engine mods so wont cost as much, granted you can easily spend over £5k on a bike, but its a lot cheaper than any other class. I could afford to mod my bike to a competitive level, whereas i haven't got the money to rip apart an engine as well forks, brakes shock etc.

Pace wise as well, at brands indy, my instructor said I was doing under 1.00 that day, but I was getting a lot quicker by the end of the day. the times range from 48 - 55 a lap there. I reckon once ive got my lines sorted and braking distance i reckon i could be competitive.

So I'm thinking, give it a year, get as many track days in as I can this year, slowly mod the bike to get it ready, and get my ACU licence and I should be ready?

Is my thinking rational? Would a 10 year old r6 be able to cut it with new bikes? Would a years worth of track days be enough to drop 7 seconds off a lap?

I'm booked up at brands indy on the 19th may if anyone feels like following me around and telling me how to improve / telling me I should give up the idea of racing.
____________________
follow my racing season
Race bike - R6
Road bike - sv650
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

G
The Voice of Reason



Joined: 02 Feb 2002
Karma :

PostPosted: 18:12 - 24 Apr 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've seen a very talented rider winning a powerbike race at Cadwell on a CBR600RR, against reasonably tuned litre bikes - skill counts for a lot!

It's all very exciting, but personally I wouldn't set your focus on it - I'd just enjoy riding bikes and consider racing if you start finding trackdays a bit frustrating.
If the riding is lessened by the fact you're not at a race meeting, then fair enough, splash the cash; but for me it was always trying to focus on enjoying riding, though it was easy to get a bit too serious about it!
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Deano
World Chat Champion



Joined: 17 Feb 2003
Karma :

PostPosted: 11:22 - 28 Apr 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ben. wrote:
okay i've been on crmc website, and looking up on the rules and regs for bikes.

super-stock 600, i was thinking, already got an r6, no engine mods so wont cost as much, granted you can easily spend over £5k on a bike, but its a lot cheaper than any other class. I could afford to mod my bike to a competitive level, whereas i haven't got the money to rip apart an engine as well forks, brakes shock etc.

Pace wise as well, at brands indy, my instructor said I was doing under 1.00 that day, but I was getting a lot quicker by the end of the day. the times range from 48 - 55 a lap there. I reckon once ive got my lines sorted and braking distance i reckon i could be competitive.

So I'm thinking, give it a year, get as many track days in as I can this year, slowly mod the bike to get it ready, and get my ACU licence and I should be ready?

Is my thinking rational? Would a 10 year old r6 be able to cut it with new bikes? Would a years worth of track days be enough to drop 7 seconds off a lap?

I'm booked up at brands indy on the 19th may if anyone feels like following me around and telling me how to improve / telling me I should give up the idea of racing.


the new stuff has come a long way since 10 yrs ago, NGRCC run a PI series which may be better suited to your bike but in the rookies it would be Ok to begin with.

7 seconds is doable but be prepared to work hard at it. you need to commit and study what you are doing wrong then apply it to your riding. Nothing beats tracktime as everyone gets better with time on the bike but be prepared to have your confidence crushed as this sport has alot of lows and can easily put you off at every step but the highs are what make it worth it.
____________________
Dean Stone #777
EMRA 2012 final standings, Formula 600s 3rd, Superstock 600s 3rd.
www.triplesevenracing.co.uk: www.ljmotorcyclerepairs.co.uk www.gettaylored.co.uk BN RaceScience, Now officially run out of money to carry on racing Sad
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Joeb46
Traffic Copper



Joined: 04 Nov 2007
Karma :

PostPosted: 22:33 - 01 May 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

me and my friend are going to be racing thundersport 500 this year. i ride a kawasaki er5 which was bought for £1000. other than hagon rear shocks and a remus exhaust system the bike is completely standard. i was lapping 1.06 at mallory.

race fees for thundersport 500s are about £250 with the exeption of oulton park £145 2 day event instead of 3.
we decided to go for this series because of its low costs.

https://img440.imageshack.us/img440/2705/joemallory.jpg

Uploaded with ImageShack.us


this is me, you can just see the front of my mates cb500 Very Happy
____________________
Current- Drz400sm- For sale
Kawasaki er-5 race bike# 106
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

garth
World Chat Champion



Joined: 15 Dec 2004
Karma :

PostPosted: 10:09 - 02 May 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting, power is about the same as DD, I always thought the laptimes were similar.

Standard springs though, hmm! Does look like a cheap entry into racing. I'm almost tempted!

What's the lap record on a CB500 for mallory?
____________________
You ain't a has been if you never was
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

garth
World Chat Champion



Joined: 15 Dec 2004
Karma :

PostPosted: 10:21 - 02 May 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also, DD bikes can be had cheap race ready.

https://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300420978556&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Sold for £1000, I know it's not exactly a top notch example, but it's not alot of cash either.
____________________
You ain't a has been if you never was
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Joeb46
Traffic Copper



Joined: 04 Nov 2007
Karma :

PostPosted: 19:07 - 06 May 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

lap record for the cb500 round mallory is 1.02 the bikes are great fun to ride but they are simple to say the least.
____________________
Current- Drz400sm- For sale
Kawasaki er-5 race bike# 106
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

garth
World Chat Champion



Joined: 15 Dec 2004
Karma :

PostPosted: 19:16 - 06 May 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Surprised

Lap record around mallory on a DD bike is 103.9 IIRC.

I've done 1.05s. Too bloody slow!

EDIT

take that back, pretty sure the record is low 103's maybe even 2.8. Dunno, and cba to find it.
____________________
You ain't a has been if you never was
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Simple
World Chat Champion



Joined: 08 Feb 2005
Karma :

PostPosted: 14:29 - 07 May 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's interesting, I can do consistent 1.09's on my standard GPZ500s with road BT45 tyres on around mallory, or could in 2007, not touched a motorbike for nearly a year now. Sad
____________________
Insta - FemFeral
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website You must be logged in to rate posts

bladerunner
World Chat Champion



Joined: 09 Sep 2006
Karma :

PostPosted: 23:32 - 29 May 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

RGV 250 cost about £3.5K a year for 10 meets...and a shed load of maintenance work...if you crash a lot easily double it but great bike to learn racing on.. light agile and fussy!
____________________
Current bikes...cbr929, KDX200's, Rd125lc mk2, RGV250's
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website You must be logged in to rate posts

Luke_Retrofly
Silly Lesbian



Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Karma :

PostPosted: 00:40 - 30 May 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

1:18.8 Rookie minitwin (Relatively stock SV650) race at snetterton for me, only laptime I can remember, probably becuase it was 4 seconds quicker than I had ever gone.

I also broke the lap record for minitwins at mallory park, unfortunatly the 4 guys infront of me did too Sad, and by more.

<Edit, checked mylaps>

1:05.1 best lap for mallory park Razz

54.8 Brands hatch

45.9 Lydden

1:06.3 Pembry

I think I spent between £10k and £15K in my season, including missing a few rounds. its the little things that seem to pile up.
____________________
Flounced - Long overdue
Fuck you bitch I'm in the top 10 list I can do the what the fuck I want!
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website You must be logged in to rate posts
Old Thread Alert!

The last post was made 15 years, 266 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful?
  Display posts from previous:   
This page may contain affiliate links, which means we may earn a small commission if a visitor clicks through and makes a purchase. By clicking on an affiliate link, you accept that third-party cookies will be set.

Post new topic   Reply to topic    Bike Chat Forums Index -> Racing & Trackdays All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum

Read the Terms of Use! - Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group
 

Debug Mode: ON - Server: birks (www) - Page Generation Time: 0.12 Sec - Server Load: 0.75 - MySQL Queries: 13 - Page Size: 133.61 Kb