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Can anyone help with acceleration power on a Gilera DNA 50cc

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bobstar
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PostPosted: 18:52 - 20 May 2010    Post subject: Can anyone help with acceleration power on a Gilera DNA 50cc Reply with quote

Hi there,

I need some advice on how to increase the take off power on a Gilera DNA 50cc. Top end its fine when it get there 50 - 55mph. I know it's no speed demon Twisted Evil but the acceleration is terrible. Push bikes takes off faster, can't even turn into a road unless the road is really clear.

Things I know and have done after we've bought it:

It came with a racing exhaust but apart from that nothing else that I can see. I took it to some ped garage and they told me to installing a new belt and some roller and that should improve it. But this didnt made a difference. It revs high but if you put both of your feet down, the bike will just rev up and not move. Have to push if of with my feet to get it going. Embarassed I've notice that when starting it from cold the bike tend to have a little bit more kick to it but not much. Its after when you've riden it for about 15 20 minutes onwards the acceleration power tend to vanish. I've been told to change the clutch and the flywheel?

But before I spend any more money on it I was hoping someone who has experience this or could possibly enlight me on what could be the problem? That would be most helpful

Many Thanks in advance.

Bobstar

ps. If you gonna tell me to get a real bike then I ride a 07 R6. I bought this for my G-friend as she doesnt have a CBT or a bike licence. But Her current driver licence entitles her just, to ride only a 50cc. And she likes the look of it!Rolling Eyes
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ian789
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PostPosted: 18:53 - 20 May 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ride it off a cliff Very Happy
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hmmmnz
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PostPosted: 19:14 - 20 May 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

pretty impressive that you have managed to get 55mph out of it,
it sounds like the clutch is buggered on it,
they are fairly cheap for a heavy duty one,

good luck
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bobstar
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PostPosted: 19:20 - 20 May 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would but it's not mine.

And nope, not fat either. Does the same if Im not sitting on it.

Thought this a workshop for advice? Shocked
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bobstar
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PostPosted: 19:22 - 20 May 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks hmmmns,

That was my next move, just wanting to see if there could be something else wrong with it.

Cheers
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hmmmnz
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PostPosted: 00:22 - 21 May 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

like all things, they wear out after time,
it may just be the springs on the clutch, put you may as well change the
clutch pads at the same time as doing the springs,
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DrDonnyBrago
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PostPosted: 08:43 - 21 May 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

A little off topic; but... regardless of entitlements there is no chance in hell that I'd let my gf out on the road on 2 wheels without training!!! Not to mention that a moped that goes 55mph wont be legal for her to ride on a cat P licence anyway.


As for the actual bike though, it runs better when the air is cold because cold air is denser and thus contains more oxygen per unit volume that warmer air. I'd go with the clutch being worn, that you are able to hit over 50mph on it suggests the engine is working in a half decent manner and the other thing that you have already checked/tried is roller weights.
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cb1rocket
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PostPosted: 12:44 - 21 May 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

clutch or the drive belt is worn, roller weights rarely need changing. They could do with lighter ones if needed, but you loose a bit of top speed
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Bob_star
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PostPosted: 19:50 - 24 May 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

hmmmnz wrote:
pretty impressive that you have managed to get 55mph out of it,
it sounds like the clutch is buggered on it,
they are fairly cheap for a heavy duty one,

good luck


Hey hmmmnz,

50 ish.. maybe because the previous owner installed a Giannelli exhaust? So the top end is fine, (when you get there) I dont mind sacrificing the top to increase the acceleration.

In your opinion, what should I get installed next?

(I had a look at the clutch on it today. There is still a fair bit left.) are racing clutch any good? or should I just stick to the heavy duty ones? Or should I look into the springs?

I did a little bit of research on rollers. apparently 4.5grams are ideal for the Giannelli exhaust, is this right?

Thanks again for you time.
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Bob_star
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PostPosted: 20:03 - 24 May 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

DonnyBrago wrote:
A little off topic; but... regardless of entitlements there is no chance in hell that I'd let my gf out on the road on 2 wheels without training!!! Not to mention that a moped that goes 55mph wont be legal for her to ride on a cat P licence anyway.


As for the actual bike though, it runs better when the air is cold because cold air is denser and thus contains more oxygen per unit volume that warmer air. I'd go with the clutch being worn, that you are able to hit over 50mph on it suggests the engine is working in a half decent manner and the other thing that you have already checked/tried is roller weights.


I agree with you mate, I know I aint no trainer but but I've been riding for 10 years. So I trained her in a car park for a few days before I let her loose. She rode all though summer last year, but gave up due to acceleration issues. Things like not being about to pull out of the road until theres a massive gap, getting to the front of the traffic at the lights without creating tail back etc.
So do you think possible its need tunning? incorrect mixture? needs more oxygen?

At the moment Im looking at clutches, springs, correct roller weight for the this Giannelli exhaust that was previously installed.
Please correct me if I heading off route for bring down the top end and gaining more bottom end.

Cheers mate.
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Bob_star
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PostPosted: 20:11 - 24 May 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

cb1rocket wrote:
clutch or the drive belt is worn, roller weights rarely need changing. They could do with lighter ones if needed, but you loose a bit of top speed


Belt is new, rollers were changed accordingly to this motorcycle garage. (I sure they're experianced enough to install the correct weight rollers on) but then again nothing has really changed when I got it back. They later on told me in install a bore kit or something??

Would you know what is the best weight rollers for a Giannelli exhaust? and best clutch? heavy duty or racing? and springs.

Cheers mate.
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cb1rocket
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PostPosted: 20:23 - 24 May 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

is the exhaust blowing? a leaking exhaust as I have discovered on most scooter at the exhaust port can lead to loss of bottom end power and pwer overall.

With performance exhasut the main jet is generally upgraded. and lighter roller weights are added.

(some may think you need heavier weights but the power is more peaky and the powerband becomes narrower)

I don't know the history of the bike performance beforehand, but has it been like since you had it? or has it developed into the problem?
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cb1rocket
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PostPosted: 20:24 - 24 May 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

sorry i don't know about the weights needed, but sometimes its just worth experimenting with them
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Bob_star
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PostPosted: 20:54 - 24 May 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

cb1rocket wrote:
is the exhaust blowing? a leaking exhaust as I have discovered on most scooter at the exhaust port can lead to loss of bottom end power and pwer overall.

With performance exhasut the main jet is generally upgraded. and lighter roller weights are added.

(some may think you need heavier weights but the power is more peaky and the powerband becomes narrower)

I don't know the history of the bike performance beforehand, but has it been like since you had it? or has it developed into the problem?


No leak from the exhaust. Not sure what the jet part is?

the bike was like that since I bought it. Owner said that this all dna 50 are like that.
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Bob_star
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PostPosted: 21:05 - 24 May 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

cb1rocket wrote:
sorry i don't know about the weights needed, but sometimes its just worth experimenting with them


No worries mate. I though as much, been reading other forums and it could differ from bike to bike depending on what mods.

Just trying to gain as much knowledge as possible before working on it.

Thanks though
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cb1rocket
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PostPosted: 21:13 - 24 May 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

a main jet is what controls the fuel mixture ratio when the throttle is above half open

this can be found in the carb body by taking off the float bowl (bottom part of carb)

probably worth checking the spec of main jet, probably still the stock one installed, which would result in a lean running
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Crafty
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PostPosted: 15:43 - 25 May 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

cb1rocket wrote:
a main jet is what controls the fuel mixture ratio when the throttle is above half open

this can be found in the carb body by taking off the float bowl (bottom part of carb)

probably worth checking the spec of main jet, probably still the stock one installed, which would result in a lean running


Actually it affects it from 1/4 throttle, but its function is restricted by the needle jet which ceases to restrict the main jet above 3/4 openings.

That said its hitting 55mph so it not a power issue :roll The problem is a failure to deliver the available power from the crankshaft to the elastic band (drive belt) *joke* or from the drive belt to the rear wheel via the clutch.
This means in theory (I'm no scooter expert) & using pure logic one or more, of the following issues:-
Belt stretched beyond wear limit, it's new so shouldn't be the problem.
badly worn drive pulleys front rear or both?
Variator rollers too heavy resulting in slow rpm build up/wind down.
Worn clutch shoes &/or clutch springs lost tension also slow build up as direct drive effectively.
Lastly the Gianelli pipe could well be screwing up low end power for outright BHP resulting in a very peaky motor? Ultralight variators MIGHT help a bit.
My personal feelings are either the Gianelli pipe or possible worn pulleys are the problem. although clutch slippage cannot be ruled out as it works on centrifugal forces. If the springs are worn they would allow the clutch to engage more resulting in very slow acceleration & low revving too:? Heavy duty or race springs will increase centrifugal resistance resulting in much higher rpms BEFORE the clutch starts to engage. This in theory should give much better take off speed.
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Last edited by Crafty on 16:17 - 25 May 2010; edited 1 time in total
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TUG
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PostPosted: 15:53 - 25 May 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Listen mate, its never gunna run right with a race pedboi zhorst on and non standard parts.
Put it back to stoke like mine was and it will hit 45-50mph and accelerate perfectly.
When you play about with low cc engines like these you need to be an engine tuning specialist then an automatic transmission specialist etc etc, spend loads of cash that you could of put towards buying a bigger better bike or a blow job off a lap dancer.
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Crafty
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PostPosted: 16:20 - 25 May 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

TUG wrote:
Listen mate, its never gunna run right with a race pedboi zhorst on and non standard parts.
Put it back to stoke like mine was and it will hit 45-50mph and accelerate perfectly.
When you play about with low cc engines like these you need to be an engine tuning specialist then an automatic transmission specialist etc etc, spend loads of cash that you could of put towards buying a bigger better bike or a blow job off a lap dancer.


Wink
I've fully sorted my son's SUZUKI TS50X (70) 5 speed manual (wanna 6 speed next tho) gearbox &
YES IT DOES EXCEED 60MPH WITH CONSUMATE EASE (even with my lardy arse). Shocked 72mph @ 10500rpm downhill (not recommended) Surprised
It's marginally slower than a kitted Aprillia RS50 (70) & I DO MEAN MARGINALLY, not bad for a 1980's AIR COOLED, TRAIL BIKE.
Producing 10.7BHP @ 9500RPM 5.4FT/LBS TORQUE 8300RPM.
I used to work on both fluid drive & variable pulley systems. Does that count? Sick
A blow job from lapdancer sounds good though Very Happy Don't think my wife would be too happy though somehow Confused

But your absolutely right TUG, if in doubt leave well alone Cool
Golden rule of engineering "If it ain't broken..... DON'T FIX IT"!!!!!
____________________
To FINNISH 1ST, 1ST you gotta FINNISH.
Fastest is the 1ST to CROSS the FINNISH LINE.
2ND, IS the 1ST of all the LOSERS.
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TUG
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PostPosted: 16:52 - 25 May 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thats really nice crafty, but the comment was aimed at the OP.
Pissing around with italian 2 strokes is asking for a world of hurt and expense. Just use it and upgrade to a bigger bike.
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Crafty
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PostPosted: 17:16 - 25 May 2010    Post subject: Re: Can anyone help with acceleration power on a Gilera DNA Reply with quote

bobstar wrote:
Hi there,

I need some advice on how to increase the take off power on a Gilera DNA 50cc. Top end its fine when it get there 50 - 55mph. I know it's no speed demon Twisted Evil but the acceleration is terrible. Push bikes takes off faster, can't even turn into a road unless the road is really clear.

Things I know and have done after we've bought it:

It came with a racing exhaust but apart from that nothing else that I can see. I took it to some ped garage and they told me to installing a new belt and some roller and that should improve it. But this didnt made a difference. It revs high but if you put both of your feet down, the bike will just rev up and not move. Have to push if of with my feet to get it going. Embarassed I've notice that when starting it from cold the bike tend to have a little bit more kick to it but not much. Its after when you've riden it for about 15 20 minutes onwards the acceleration power tend to vanish. I've been told to change the clutch and the flywheel?

But before I spend any more money on it I was hoping someone who has experience this or could possibly enlight me on what could be the problem? That would be most helpful

Many Thanks in advance.

Bobstar

ps. If you gonna tell me to get a real bike then I ride a 07 R6. I bought this for my G-friend as she doesnt have a CBT or a bike licence. But Her current driver licence entitles her just, to ride only a 50cc. And she likes the look of it!Rolling Eyes


Having re read this its almost certainly worn pulleys causing belt slippage this is also wearing the new belt out as well.
To check for wear remove the pulleys & put a straight edge ie a ruler along the tapered surfaces where the belt runs. The front pulley will show most wear near centre & rear pulley will show most wear near outer edge. If my theory is correct.
Try these guys for really solid advice on what the problem is. They are all scooter experts allegedly Rolling Eyes
No actually they really do know what their talking about. Ive dealt with the 1st 2 personally for my lads geared moped & they everything I wanted/needed in stock & offered technical advice too.
https://www.adrenalin-pedstop.co.uk/
https://beedspeed.com/html-pages/ContactUs.htm
https://www.taffspeed-racing.com/70141/info.php?p=6
Good luck
____________________
To FINNISH 1ST, 1ST you gotta FINNISH.
Fastest is the 1ST to CROSS the FINNISH LINE.
2ND, IS the 1ST of all the LOSERS.
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Crafty
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PostPosted: 17:25 - 25 May 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

TUG wrote:
Thats really nice crafty, but the comment was aimed at the OP.
Pissing around with italian 2 strokes is asking for a world of hurt and expense. Just use it and upgrade to a bigger bike.


I know lol, hence the wink Wink @ start

Also your right again on Italian (& Spanish too).
Thats why I chose Japanese & specifically The TS50X becasue its a sleeved down (same bore now though) short stroke TS80 engine.
Therefore its more than capable of handling the extra ponies I accidentally found officer.
____________________
To FINNISH 1ST, 1ST you gotta FINNISH.
Fastest is the 1ST to CROSS the FINNISH LINE.
2ND, IS the 1ST of all the LOSERS.
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cb1rocket
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PostPosted: 20:19 - 25 May 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

i agree get a bigger bike or a proper 125

anyway back to subject, my money (and giving it a bit more thought) would be on the clutch, which could possibly be well worn. And also the weights in the variator. Go for really light rollers and give it a shot. despite that, 55mph once going is pretty good. But as other have said, the exhaust is probably making the power really peaky and delivering it only in the top end power range, with no bottom range power.

Remember 2 strokes are almost like turbo chargers, until you hit the desired rpm, then the power kicks in.

Its quite noticable on my little H100 2 smoker

So in my conclusion try the weights and check the clutch for wear
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fbl
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PostPosted: 14:04 - 27 Sep 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know this is a bit late, however, what you need are some rollers, and a polini variator kit
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