Resend my activation email : Register : Log in 
BCF: Bike Chat Forums


Stuck bolt, now what? It's just got worse...

Reply to topic
Bike Chat Forums Index -> The Workshop Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
View previous topic : View next topic  
Author Message

.....
Quote Me Happy



Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Karma :

PostPosted: 13:52 - 30 May 2010    Post subject: Stuck bolt, now what? It's just got worse... Reply with quote

Hello chaps,

I've got a stuck allen bolt in my lower fork clamp - the bolt rounded off as I tried to undo it. I hammered a slightly larger torx bit into the head and tried turning it with that but no luck. It did turn but the bit kept slipping out and the force needed to turn it just felt wrong - it was a two handed job on the ratchet and quite a bit of effort. I thought before I made things much worse I better stop and ask for advice. I've tried using penetrating oil and a bit of heat as well.

Here's the bolt as it stands:

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v619/baldgit/DSC01835.jpg

Is it going to be a case of drilling it out? Can this be done with a hand drill and should I use a left hand drill bit?

Thanks


Last edited by ..... on 17:16 - 30 May 2010; edited 1 time in total
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Tristan.
World Chat Champion



Joined: 26 May 2007
Karma :

PostPosted: 14:27 - 30 May 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it turns with the torx bit, I would carry on doing it, with plenty of decent (not WD40) penetrating spray. Do up the other bolts first, as if they're loose then the fucked bolt will be under tension still, as the clamp expands with that head. if the others are tight then then once the initial turn is done it wont be under tension.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Carl_steveo
World Chat Champion



Joined: 23 Jun 2008
Karma :

PostPosted: 14:32 - 30 May 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the above fails get a dremmal drill and cut a slit in it so you can get a screwdriver bit in it. Then try that by hand if you still cant do it then gently go at it with a drill with the screwdriver bit in it until its out.
____________________
Current: Honda Nsr 125
Live: Sunderland
Luke "cant be arsed to read your post, but suck my balls anyway."
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

.....
Quote Me Happy



Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Karma :

PostPosted: 14:41 - 30 May 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tristan. wrote:
If it turns with the torx bit, I would carry on doing it, with plenty of decent (not WD40) penetrating spray. Do up the other bolts first, as if they're loose then the fucked bolt will be under tension still, as the clamp expands with that head. if the others are tight then then once the initial turn is done it wont be under tension.


Thanks for the info - I've been using Plus Gas on it. I suppose to keep going at it looks like the best option - it's just the amount of force needed to turn it was worrying me.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

.....
Quote Me Happy



Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Karma :

PostPosted: 17:15 - 30 May 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Right, the head of the bolt is now too mullered to get any purchase with the torx bit. What would be the next thing to try?

And to make matters worse, I noticed my Halford allen key socket was rounding off the heads so I gave it ago undoing another bolt with a set of allen keys and one of them snapped off in the bolt Laughing It's just not my day. There's nothing sticking out so can't get a grip on it.

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v619/baldgit/DSC01836.jpg

Any ideas on that one?

The thing that confuses me is that these bolts all got taken out a month ago and were torqued back up correctly, what could be causing them to seize like this? Should I have used something like copperslip on them?
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

----
World Chat Champion



Joined: 29 Sep 2006
Karma :

PostPosted: 17:54 - 30 May 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd try hitting it with a decent punch (heat it up a bit first)
You could try cutting a slot into with a dremmel then get onto it with a flat impact driver.
That way has never worked for me but the punch usually does.
____________________
DRZ-400sm
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

.....
Quote Me Happy



Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Karma :

PostPosted: 08:48 - 31 May 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think cutting a slot into the original mullered bolt is an option as it's just to bashed up now - I kept having to go up a size in torx bits to try and get them to have any purchase on the bolt.

Any ideas on what to do with the other bolt with the allen key bit stuck in it? Laughing
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Pete.
Super Spammer



Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Karma :

PostPosted: 09:08 - 31 May 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

It does sound like the thread is torn if you had to use that much effort to turn it.

What I would do is remove the other two bolts then use a 1mm cutting disc in a mini grinder and cut that one off in the gap to release the head. Then I would drill out the threaded part with a drill slightly smaller that the minor diameter of the bolt just in case the thread is not ruined. If it isn't this should cause the bolt to screw itself right out the back.
____________________
a.k.a 'Geri'

132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good Very Happy
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website You must be logged in to rate posts

.....
Quote Me Happy



Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Karma :

PostPosted: 10:10 - 31 May 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Pete, I went to B&Q to see if they had a cutting disc there but only had the larger ones. I looked at the Dremel discs and they were £26 Shocked

No left hand drill bits either.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

stirlinggaz
World Chat Champion



Joined: 22 Jul 2007
Karma :

PostPosted: 11:15 - 31 May 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi,
im far too cheap to buy the proper dremel stuff & have found these sort of things to be quite handy for cutting slots in bolts & stuff https://cgi.ebay.co.uk/6-X-MINI-DIAMOND-CUTTING-DISC-SET-ROTARY-TOOLS-/400123965161?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_Home_Garden_PowerTools_SM&hash=item5d293f2ee9

though tbh,nowadays i just buy the full kit, as it works out cheaper, like this https://cgi.ebay.co.uk/105-pc-HOBBY-ROTARY-TOOL-ACCESSORY-KIT-/150433969656?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_Home_Garden_PowerTools_SM&hash=item23069035f8

( last one i bought came in a handy aluminium case) means you can use the things a couple of times & chuck them away.

but tbh, i'd be more tempted just to drill those bolts out, using a small cobalt drill bit (i use a 3mm bit then work upwards) & then work your up through the drill bits till you have 99% of the bolt out, then just run a tap through the threads.

if the original threads are stripped, just cut the next size up.
then fit some nice shiney s/s bolts.done this a few times recently on snapped exhaust mount stubs & the like without any problems.
cheers,
GAZ
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Pete.
Super Spammer



Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Karma :

PostPosted: 14:15 - 31 May 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joe wrote:
Thanks Pete, I went to B&Q to see if they had a cutting disc there but only had the larger ones. I looked at the Dremel discs and they were £26 Shocked

No left hand drill bits either.


Local tool shop or hire shop (even builder's merchants) should stock 'em. You need the ultra-thin 1mm discs. I have a box of them but you're not really local.
____________________
a.k.a 'Geri'

132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good Very Happy
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website You must be logged in to rate posts

silky666
Captain Rulebook



Joined: 28 Aug 2006
Karma :

PostPosted: 14:28 - 31 May 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

You have a number of options .. all of which I have used successfully over the past year or 2.
Give me a shout if you need any of the tools.
1) Drill it out - 2 sub options here:
a) drill out and keep going up in size until the 'thread' gets so thin that it spins out.
This often happens much earlier than you expect .... ie: once you have drilled out a large portion of the bolt (but still well clear of the thread), it relieves the stress on the thread and simply starts to spin.
Often the drill bit will 'catch it' and you can reverse out the thread.
IMPORTANT: Make sure you use a cobalt drill bit. They are expensive, but the consequences of snapping off a drill bit in the bolt are horrendous. Trust me, i tried to save money and used HSS bits, snapped one off and then had to take it to an engineers for them to work their magic.

or b) drill and then use a reverse thread extractor.
I have a set of these

2) Get some freeze spray from Halfrauds ... heat the surrounding clamp ... then freeze the bolt. Then tap it round using a chisel and some brute force.
It will spin easily due to the expansion/contraction of the metals. (that spray freezes to about -20)

I used the freeze spray on a similar recessed oil drain bolt (only KTM would have a recessed bolt in the sump) on my bike last weekend. Worked a treat.
If that fails then drill it ... That has worked everytime for me.

oh! and I have a Dremel with all the little cutting tools if you want it.
____________________
There's nothing that shouts "Poor Workmanship" more than wrinkles in the Gaffa tape.

Gaffa tape is like "the force" - it has a light side, a dark side, and it holds the universe together.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

silky666
Captain Rulebook



Joined: 28 Aug 2006
Karma :

PostPosted: 14:38 - 31 May 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joe wrote:

Laughing its almost a prefect circle in there Laughing
Sorry mate, its just making me giggle .. thinking of our last 'mechanics session'.
____________________
There's nothing that shouts "Poor Workmanship" more than wrinkles in the Gaffa tape.

Gaffa tape is like "the force" - it has a light side, a dark side, and it holds the universe together.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Ed Case
World Chat Champion



Joined: 01 Mar 2009
Karma :

PostPosted: 14:39 - 31 May 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

stirlinggaz wrote:
hi,
im far too cheap to buy the proper dremel stuff & have found these sort of things to be quite handy for cutting slots in bolts & stuff https://cgi.ebay.co.uk/6-X-MINI-DIAMOND-CUTTING-DISC-SET-ROTARY-TOOLS-/400123965161?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_Home_Garden_PowerTools_SM&hash=item5d293f2ee9

though tbh,nowadays i just buy the full kit, as it works out cheaper, like this https://cgi.ebay.co.uk/105-pc-HOBBY-ROTARY-TOOL-ACCESSORY-KIT-/150433969656?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_Home_Garden_PowerTools_SM&hash=item23069035f8

( last one i bought came in a handy aluminium case) means you can use the things a couple of times & chuck them away.

but tbh, i'd be more tempted just to drill those bolts out, using a small cobalt drill bit (i use a 3mm bit then work upwards) & then work your up through the drill bits till you have 99% of the bolt out, then just run a tap through the threads.

if the original threads are stripped, just cut the next size up.
then fit some nice shiney s/s bolts.done this a few times recently on snapped exhaust mount stubs & the like without any problems.
cheers,
GAZ


If you're going to use stainless screws for re-assembly be sure to coat them, or any other bolts if it comes to that, with copper grease because they're buggers for 'galling' the threads over time.
Best of luck, Ed.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

TUG
World Chat Champion



Joined: 12 May 2007
Karma :

PostPosted: 14:42 - 31 May 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joe wrote:

I fuckin lol'd, i really sorry i couldn't help it, thats gunna be difficult to remove and drill. Laughing
____________________
Haz ER-5, innit!
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

silky666
Captain Rulebook



Joined: 28 Aug 2006
Karma :

PostPosted: 15:16 - 31 May 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

TUG wrote:
thats gunna be difficult to remove and drill. Laughing
Dont fret Joe ... bring that GsGas of yours to Silkys Mechanical Repairs ... and I will have it out in a jiffy.

This is the bolt that was rounded off on my KTM.
Bit of freezy freezy and some thump clump chisely.. and she was out.

https://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c256/CZM400R/CIMG9975.jpg
____________________
There's nothing that shouts "Poor Workmanship" more than wrinkles in the Gaffa tape.

Gaffa tape is like "the force" - it has a light side, a dark side, and it holds the universe together.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts
Vincent This post is not being displayed because the poster is banned. Unhide this post / all posts.

----
World Chat Champion



Joined: 29 Sep 2006
Karma :

PostPosted: 17:13 - 31 May 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

silky666 wrote:


This is the bolt that was rounded off on my KTM.
Bit of freezy freezy and some thump clump chisely.. and she was out.

https://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c256/CZM400R/CIMG9975.jpg

Seems a waste of time getting it out considering the casings got a huge crack in it Laughing
____________________
DRZ-400sm
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

chillyman0
Nearly there...



Joined: 11 Sep 2008
Karma :

PostPosted: 17:36 - 31 May 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

flat head screwdriver to one of the edges, hit it hard to get a little groove almost then angle the screwdriver and hit it again in the direction that you want the head to go, thats usually what i do. either that or find a bolt thats about the size of the mashed I.D. with backward thread and forge it to cut a thread in the bolt, keep tuning and you should be able to get the bastard out.
____________________
preivious : 2007 Skyjet 125 (died), 1991 gsf400 (problems, rotting in garden)
1996 gsf600n (sold)
current : 1996 VFR750 for sale, PM for info! 2000 E1 ZX-9r
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

chillyman0
Nearly there...



Joined: 11 Sep 2008
Karma :

PostPosted: 17:38 - 31 May 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vincent wrote:
Use Petes method of cutting the screw in half and remove after you have the forks out but instead of using a dremmel to cut the bolt, can't you get an old fashioned hacksaw in there?


good shout, seems alot more sensible than going at it with a disc cutter
____________________
preivious : 2007 Skyjet 125 (died), 1991 gsf400 (problems, rotting in garden)
1996 gsf600n (sold)
current : 1996 VFR750 for sale, PM for info! 2000 E1 ZX-9r
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

stirlinggaz
World Chat Champion



Joined: 22 Jul 2007
Karma :

PostPosted: 18:01 - 31 May 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

"if you're going to use stainless screws for re-assembly be sure to coat them, or any other bolts if it comes to that, with copper grease because they're buggers for 'galling' the threads over time.
Best of luck, Ed."


hi,
yup, i should have said, if you ever want the replacement s/s bolts back out, its worthwhile putting a bit of copper sip on them.

i might be tempted to try freeze & releae spray, halfrauds stock it.(Loctite,iirc)
but i'd use decent hex bits rather than hex keys.
i have a set of 7 or 8 (i only ever use the 4,5 & 6 tbh) that i got off ebay a few years ago, one of the best things i have bought, just stick them on a breaker bar & give it a sharp whack.
if that fails, drill the f*ckers out!
cobalt drills arent as expensive as you might think, i bought a set of black & decker piranha bits, cost me about 18 quid for the set of 13 bits & tbh, they wernt much better than ordinary hss bits.
so i got a pack of 10 x 3mm & a pack of 10 x 5.5mm de-walt cobalt drill bits for a tenner off ebay & they have been the best drills i have used.
i just drill a 3mm hole, then run the 5.5mm bit through, then, if needed, i run a bigger titanium bit through to finish it.
just remember to punch a hole in the centre (i have a habit of drilling squint Embarassed ), then drill slow, keeping the bit cool & use plenty of cutting oil. ( i use any cheap thin oil)
cheers,
GAZ[/b]
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

.....
Quote Me Happy



Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Karma :

PostPosted: 18:19 - 31 May 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the help everyone.

I think the method I'm going to try will be drill it out with a reverse thread cobalt drill bit. They look pretty pricey, can anyone point me to some reasonably priced sets? I've thought about using extractors but heard they can break pretty easily and then you're really stuck.

And stirlinggaz, I know I shouldn't have used those allen keys in there really, but my Halfords Pro socket was just rounding them off.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts
Vincent This post is not being displayed because the poster is banned. Unhide this post / all posts.

stirlinggaz
World Chat Champion



Joined: 22 Jul 2007
Karma :

PostPosted: 19:01 - 31 May 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi,
i wouldnt bother with extractors or the like, if they snap, then your in more sh*t.
i found reverse thread drills a bit too costly,for what they are & just used good bits, less than 10mins work to remove 2 x M8 bolts, about 45-50mm long/deep.
cobalt drill bits are only a couple of quid each, even for the good ones,
good luck,
cheers,
GAZ
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

MrJames
Two Stroke Sniffer



Joined: 27 May 2010
Karma :

PostPosted: 19:10 - 31 May 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heating and freezing aluminium is a bad idea as it can cause it to crack after dealing with many tricky bolts before by the time you've spent all this money on trying to remove them and possibly failing you could have paid a shop to remove them lol Sad
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts
Old Thread Alert!

The last post was made 16 years, 134 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful?
  Display posts from previous:   
This page may contain affiliate links, which means we may earn a small commission if a visitor clicks through and makes a purchase. By clicking on an affiliate link, you accept that third-party cookies will be set.

Post new topic   Reply to topic    Bike Chat Forums Index -> The Workshop All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
Page 1 of 3

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum

Read the Terms of Use! - Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group
 

Debug Mode: ON - Server: birks (www) - Page Generation Time: 0.11 Sec - Server Load: 4.88 - MySQL Queries: 13 - Page Size: 135.38 Kb