Problems after selling the TL...

[Ste]

This evening I sold the TL privately to a buyer who had seen the bike on eBay and had contacted me to buy it off eBay. He came down this evening (it was a trip of about 110 miles he said) and then bought the TL for cash.

He did not test ride the bike at all, he didn't really do much other than look over the bike, and start it up twice (which it did both times with no problems what so ever). He then set off home on the bike and I assumed that was the last I'd hear of it basically. I got a phone call just over 2 hours from when he set off from here, telling me that he was stuck by the side of a road and was having problems with the bike. He said that first of all the speedo stopped working, then the tacho stopped working, then he noticed the bike was leaking and burning oil. He said he pulled over to the side of the road to see what was wrong and he says it is leaking oil from the top of the engine onto the exhausts which is making the smoke. Then he said the alarm wouldn't disarm or do anything (I don't know if he left the lights on or something when he pulled over or what).

He said he is being picked up by a friend with a van as he is nearly home. He says he is after a full refund as he was not expecting this at all.

He did not test ride the bike at all before buying it, not even 1cm. The first time he rode it was when he was going home on it. The bike was working fine when it left here, and when it was last used. It has not been used for quite a while, but last time it was used (about 2 months ago I reckon) it was working without any problems at all. It has been started and allowed to run every so often whilst it's been stuck in the garage here. I started it a couple of times this morning and it didn't have any problems. So basically the bike was fine when it left here, and he is asking for a refund which would leave me with a broken bike which I didn't cause.

The bike had before the last time it was used had major engine work done on it, but it was working fine after that (it was dropped back to someone else as I was in hospital, he had used it a bit to make sure it was fine which it was) and has been working fine since then until this evening.

I printed off two copies of a receipt which we both signed so I have a copy of the it, and it says "The buyer confirms that he has examined or has had the opportunity to examine the vehicle and understands and accepts that the vehicle is sold and delivered strictly as seen and has noted and accepted any defects drawn to his/her attention by the seller" and it is signed by him.

I am not taking a refund as I'll then be stuck with a broken bike which I didn't break, he did no checks on the bike before he bought it. He's going to call back tomorrow morning, and I am expecting him to be asking me to come and get the bike and refund him his money, which I am not able to do or willing to do (or even consider doing!).

Anyone got any advice or information on where I stand with this, the bike was "sold as seen", and generally buying secondhand vehicles is a case of "buyer beware", so can I just turn around and say "no" explaining why, and how it was fine last time it was used, and when it left here, and taking it back would be leaving me with a broken bike which I didn't break.

Any help anyone?

And why can't anything be simple, why does everything have to be complicated.

[Danny]

With a copy of that contract you shouldn't worry about it at all.

[R1stu]

Tell him to feck off! You stated in the auction that there was problems and were corrected so you have not miss-sold the bike!

You allowed him to test the bike and he refused!

So what more can you do?
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[Frost]

well i can see this argument from both sides really. the main thing is what he signed, i wouldnt have, and he shouldnt have signed that untill he had been for a test ride. personally so as soon as i read that i would have decided that a 50 mile test ride was in order!

Bottom line is he bought it and agreed to pay for in in it's current state so its his problem

[dibbster]

It sounds like you have covered yourself.

Who knows what he did to it on the 100 mile trip home?

He didn't test ride it so it's his fault (not saying anything was up when it left yours.)
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[bikegirl]

I've got to be honest Ste, but I think you should refund and sort the problems out, or at least look into it further. How would you feel if it happened to you?
What could he have done to the bike in 2 hours and why would he have done something? I know he was silly not to test ride it but he must've got a good feeling about your fairness to do that?...
Still, it's up to him to get the bike back to you though.
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[dibbster]

2 hours with a newly bought TL1000 ;

Hmmm nope can't think what i'd do.
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[tatters]

sold as see, just tell him to fuck off l,ve had it before with some silly students l sold a AF1 to the bikes timing was out and this cause it to overheat and was sold with no MOT all this was stated to them (they probley thought it was a easy fix and l sold it very cheap), they rode it off and a week later l got a letter from them stating that the bike failed its MOT and that they wanted a full refund and £176 for a service that was carried out on it and the price of the MOT (Cheeky bastards ), so l just ignored it got 5 more letters saying they were taking me to court etc but 5 months since last letter no more trouble.
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[T.N.O]

legal contract if he signed, it is only your responsiblity if there is a clause in the small print. which lets hope there is not.

you are under no obligation to do anything at all if he has taken it away from you and signed the sellers agreement.

so tell him where to go, and just to be on the safe side move house!
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Nakedness rules (but not when it's cold)

[Dusty]

[Shaun]

Sold as seen Ste, simple as, on the plus you have a signed contract.

You could always hire james to sit naked in your garden for a week, should do the trick.

[Tarmacsurfer]

[G]

Maybe take the details and offer to contact <the shop> on his behalf.
Explain that you sold the bike under best intentions, but can't pay the money back, even if you would, as it has already been put into paying off your loan maybe.

[bikegirl]

It must be just me with too much of a conscience / guilt thing going on... I feel guilty if I squish a bug though.
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www.bikegirl.co.uk

[Sparks!]

[T.N.O]

https://www.ask.co.uk/kb.asp?q=Free+Legal+Advice&p=1&s=200&ac=GOV_&xx=0&qid=E4B5A2E2559CF748908A456C1D80680A&sp=kbtp&fn=kb&fo=1&r=3&io=1&pk=1&fr=0&bl=0&aj_ques=snapshot%3DUKKB%26kbid%3D3492984&aj_logid=E4B5A2E2559CF748908A456C1D80680A&aj_rank=1&aj_score=1&aj_list1=3491829-3529540&qi.x=9&qi.y=6 so that ends that, go to private seller and it's all explained.
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Nakedness rules (but not when it's cold)

[Kickstart]

Hi

Legally I suspect the guy buying the bike doesn't have a leg to stand on.

As to the problems they sound like a flat battery (possibly a knackered battery from being run flat, possibly a charging system problem) causing the problems with the clocks, and the breather hose blocked.

All the best

Keith
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[dibbster]

[Git]

If sold as seen or similar comes with a signature

I think this little sign is applicable.


Not a nice way for things to go for yourself or for him but how do we know he did not thrash the living daylights out of it on the way home. Tricky situation.

[Robby]

As keith said, the electrical stuff is probanly a flat battery. Batterys do this, and this one has been standing for a few months with little or no use.

Also this is basically its first decent running in shakedown after the big work. The head cover or head itself might need pulling down a bit.

Its all a rather unfortunate situation, but I would suggest these things to the buyer, give him the contact details of the shop that did the work if he wants to quiz them over the oil leak, and explain that you signed a contract and your sticking to it.
And lock the front door. Or stay at G's.

He must be kicking himself about not doing this over ebay.

[Claud 14.7 to 1]

Your ok, the deal was done, sold as seen. There is always a risk in buying privatly, he took the risk. It was his responciblility to check it over. Had he used a test ride, he would have discovered any problems.

You (i hope) were honest and gave all the infomation concerning the bike to the best of your knowledge.

There is nothing he can do or say. The reciept will show the deal, and after that is signed the bike was passd on.

Keep police no. at bay incase things get nasty. And arm yourself. You can never be too careful. Have a mate or two round as well.

That just the way the cookie crumbles...

O, btw Ebay always warns of deals being done out of ebay. Suggests for them not to take place and to report any "offers"... I put ad for a road angel on, some guy mailed me wanting to do out or ebay settlement. Told him where to go.

Beware he could be scamming you. I.e. take refunded money, and then drive off with the bike, in van...Watch it!

[dibbster]

[Ste]

Stu, it was not stating in the auction that it had problems, it stated clearly what it's history of problems had been and we discussed this and he saw the paperwork from the shop for it, so was fully aware of it's history.

bikegirl, yes I can see it from his point of view, but also he needs to see it from mine. You check a bike over before you buy it, you test ride it, and any problems however major or minor they are you normally then walk away. He didn't check the bike at all, and it was sold in good faith and was working fine when it left here. Saying that this is not being fair, it's playing by the rules and the law, he didn't even ask for a test ride, and any questions he had about it I answered fully and correctly, and was not trying to hide anything with the bike, and was not trying to sell a broken bike, I was as surprised to get the call saying it was broken, as he was having it break just after buying it. I'm not going to accept a broken bike back out of the goodness of my heart, as I did not break it, and he didn't even check it over really before buying it. And I agree with Dusty on his point, as he was fairly daft not to test ride it. I'd test ride a bike if it was £365 just to be sure it was actually what I thought it was. His own look out really if he doesn't test ride stuff surely?

Tarmacsurfer you are correct in saying that I didn't refuse him to test ride it, as he didn't even ask. I would have been more than willing to let him test ride it if he had asked, but he didn't so thats his look out.

G, I will do that tomorrow when he calls, well, depending on what he says he wants to be done really. The work they did I believe was warranted for 3 months or 1,000 miles which ever came first so is still under warranty.

Keith, I'll let him know about the suggestions as to what is causing the problems with the bike not responding to the alarm blipper and see what he says. For all we know he could have left the lights on whilst poking away at the engine and exhausts to see what was making the smoke.

Yup, dibbster and Git I do have no way of knowing what he was doing to the bike in the time that he had it, and he could have spent most of the time up on one wheel whilst thrashing the living daylights out of the gearbox. Or he could have been riding safely and calmly on his way home. Will never really know, but can just say I don't know what he did to it in the time he had it, as I don't.

Robby I'll be suggesting tomorrow that he contacts the shop which did the work (or I might offer to contact them for him to try and sort it out) but he does have all the paperwork from the work being done so would be more than able to figure it out for himself really. The stuff about possible problems with the engine I am not going to suggest really, as say they're not quite right, he pays a shop to do what I suggest and then it still doesn't work it's just making more hassle and possible problems. He can take it to a shop if he wants to, or take advice from people if he wants to, but I'm not giving it on subjects like the engine leaking oil as it's just more possible problems really.

Front door is normally locked anyway, and the chances of him managing to find this place twice are quite low I reckon.

Will just have to see what he says in the morning now really.

Thanks for all the help people,

Ste

[william]

Hopefully this whole situation can be sorted out amicably but please remind me not to buy a bike off most of you.

Before you come back at me. I bought my bike off Ebay without actually seeing it and it was only delivered after full payment without the luxury of a test drive.

Maybe he did thrash it but how do you thrash a bike this size and live Was he Rossi?

Maybe (and its a small maybe) he rode the bike home at a leisurely pace and really encountered these problems. Despite not test riding the bike I would have been well miffed.

If he had tested the bike he would have probably driven around unfamiliar roads at 30mph hardly a decisive test.

I had to buy a new battery after a week but I didn't blame the seller for this - I put it down to the bike not having been ridden for 18 months.

Give the guy a chance after a good nights sleep you will have both calmed down and it still could be amicably sorted.

Bottom line Caveat Emptor.

William

PS and before you all PM me offering bikes for sale - No I am happy with the one I have

[Ste]

Well sorting it amicably will be a lot easier (and cheaper for him, as he can try to take legal action but he doesn't have a leg to stand on ) it going further. Just want to add that I was not aware of any problems with the bike at this time, and he was fully aware of the history of the bike (he even has the paperwork for it) and still decided it was a good buy and good enough to buy without a test ride.

He wasn't Rossi, but I doubt it would be that hard to manage to damage an engine badly in two hours. And yup you're right I don't know if he rode it at a leisurely pace and still encountered the problems. He could have very easily taken the bike on a good test ride being able to use the bike at all speeds and giving it basically a full test but he didn't even ask to test ride it. Hell he didn't even ride it round the drive to see if it was working before he gave me the money!

Let's see what the morning brings and what he says he wants to do in the morning. I've also decided that I am not going to offer to call the shop about it, as I do not want to get involved in it really. I'll remind him about the fact the work was done and I believe it is still under warranty and that he should call them and discuss it but I am not getting involved more than I already am.

I can only base my views on what I know (I am being truthful in what I am saying on here as I have nothing about the bike at all to hide either to anyone on here, or to a buyer) about the bike and what happened when he bought it this evening. He could well have ridden it home sensibly but I do not know this for a fact so cannot base stuff on it.

Thanks for the help William.

Ste