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Snapped pencil down spark plug hole.

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Bambam3
Renault 5 Driver



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PostPosted: 10:10 - 30 Jun 2010    Post subject: Snapped pencil down spark plug hole. Reply with quote

Really. Crying or Very sad

Was trying to find TDC, used a pencil as a guide so I could see it rising as I had nothing long and thin, then it got caught as the piston rose and snapped in there.

I feel like crying. I just needed to adjust the damn valves. Arhggrhgrhghrgh.

Anyone know whats next or what it's gonna cost me to get everything stripped out and remove the pencil bits from in there?

Absolute nightmare, I'm at my wits end.
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The Shaggy D.A.
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PostPosted: 10:21 - 30 Jun 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

What bike is it?
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Bambam3
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PostPosted: 10:23 - 30 Jun 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

A Honda XR125. Same engine as the Honda CG if I'm not mistaken.
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Itchy
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PostPosted: 10:26 - 30 Jun 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

You could always flood the cylinder with oil, then turn it over, with a socket on the end of the crank. The piston should push out the oil and the pencil bits along with it. Or make it reachable with some tweezers/chopsticks.

It will run rough though when you start it up again though.
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stirlinggaz
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PostPosted: 10:27 - 30 Jun 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

should be too difficult to remove the head & extract the debris.........
cheers,
GAZ
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Bambam3
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PostPosted: 10:30 - 30 Jun 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

stirlinggaz wrote:
should be too difficult to remove the head & extract the debris.........
cheers,
GAZ


Are there any easy to follow guides on removing the head online?
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Bambam3
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PostPosted: 10:34 - 30 Jun 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Itchy wrote:
You could always flood the cylinder with oil, then turn it over, with a socket on the end of the crank. The piston should push out the oil and the pencil bits along with it. Or make it reachable with some tweezers/chopsticks.

It will run rough though when you start it up again though.


Seems well and truly jammed in there, tried budging it with stuff but it's stuck solid. Can't turn the engine over anymore by turning the rear wheel as the pencil is stopping the piston moving up it seems.
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The Shaggy D.A.
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PostPosted: 10:46 - 30 Jun 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Waxaddict wrote:
stirlinggaz wrote:
should be too difficult to remove the head & extract the debris.........
cheers,
GAZ


Are there any easy to follow guides on removing the head online?


Here's the CG125 workshop manual, it'll give you an idea of how easy removing the head is (page 19) :-

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3526686/Haynes_Honda_CG125%20owners%20workshop%20manual.pdf
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Robby
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PostPosted: 11:34 - 30 Jun 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

It isn't a CG engine, it's an OHC engine. CG uses pushrods.

Get some tweezers, a strong torch, and some patience and fish the bits out of the hole.

In future, use the workshop manual. TDC is marked on the flywheel, you take off the inspections caps on the left hand side crankcase cover and use the big one to turn the crank while you use the small one to look for the T mark.
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Bambam3
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PostPosted: 11:35 - 30 Jun 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Shaggy D.A. wrote:


Here's the CG125 workshop manual, it'll give you an idea of how easy removing the head is (page 19) :-

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3526686/Haynes_Honda_CG125%20owners%20workshop%20manual.pdf


Thank you. Thumbs Up I'll give it a go.
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Frost
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PostPosted: 11:59 - 30 Jun 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tiny wood fragments shouldn't be an issue really as they will be burnt and turned into carbon anyway. Make sure you get all the lead out as graphite could possibly be very bad for valves.
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L4Isoside
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PostPosted: 12:03 - 30 Jun 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hoover?
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Bambam3
Renault 5 Driver



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PostPosted: 12:30 - 30 Jun 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robby wrote:
It isn't a CG engine, it's an OHC engine. CG uses pushrods.

Get some tweezers, a strong torch, and some patience and fish the bits out of the hole.

In future, use the workshop manual. TDC is marked on the flywheel, you take off the inspections caps on the left hand side crankcase cover and use the big one to turn the crank while you use the small one to look for the T mark.


Ah right, very similar though no? Alot of people have mentioned it's the same egine, just tuned a little different and in a different chassis.

Had trouble with the crankcase cover so reverted to the old method. Inspection cover bolts were rounded off and the cover was a nightmare to get off fully.

I'll have a fish about in there and do what I can though.. but it's like half a pencil jammed there.. not just little bits to fish out. I'll have a crack at breaking it up or something.
Thumbs Up


Also, is it safe to hoover down there?
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kt
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PostPosted: 12:53 - 30 Jun 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robby wrote:
It isn't a CG engine, it's an OHC engine. CG uses pushrods.

Get some tweezers, a strong torch, and some patience and fish the bits out of the hole.

In future, use the workshop manual. TDC is marked on the flywheel, you take off the inspections caps on the left hand side crankcase cover and use the big one to turn the crank while you use the small one to look for the T mark.

The engine probably is a cg engine the old ohc 125 s/xl/j engines havent been used for years due to not being able to comply with the emmision regs, why was the op using a pencil to find tdc on a 4 stroke that method only works on a 2 stroke as the valves will overlap the plug hole on a 4 stroke cg or s engine and break the pencil. The timing and ignition marks are stamped on the flywheel
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Bambam3
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PostPosted: 13:06 - 30 Jun 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

supermono wrote:
Robby wrote:
It isn't a CG engine, it's an OHC engine. CG uses pushrods.

Get some tweezers, a strong torch, and some patience and fish the bits out of the hole.

In future, use the workshop manual. TDC is marked on the flywheel, you take off the inspections caps on the left hand side crankcase cover and use the big one to turn the crank while you use the small one to look for the T mark.

The engine probably is a cg engine the old ohc 125 s/xl/j engines havent been used for years due to not being able to comply with the emmision regs, why was the op using a pencil to find tdc on a 4 stroke that method only works on a 2 stroke as the valves will overlap the plug hole on a 4 stroke cg or s engine and break the pencil. The timing and ignition marks are stamped on the flywheel


Couldn't get the crankcase cover off and inspection hole bolts/crank were rounded so someone suggested using the old TDC method.

Will it not work at all with this engine?
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kt
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PostPosted: 13:11 - 30 Jun 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, if you look down the plug hole with a torch and turn the engine over you will see the valve moving across the plug hole, this is probably what broke your pencil, only use this method on a 2 stroke. Your engine is a small bore version of the modern (ish) cg150 engine and is a pushrod ohv model. The cylider head is very easy to remove and your valve timing will not be upset by doing so.
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MaybeGuy
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PostPosted: 13:12 - 30 Jun 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

just run it up with the pencil bits in it. It wont damage it, and it'll get broken up and spat out in its own time.
My ktm ran for a while with half an aluminium carb slide sucked into the cylinder and there was no damage whatsoever after lifting the head when it finally clattered to a halt.
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kt
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PostPosted: 13:13 - 30 Jun 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can I ask what you are trying to do to the bike, are you trying to adjust the tappets?
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Bambam3
Renault 5 Driver



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PostPosted: 13:15 - 30 Jun 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

supermono wrote:
No, if you look down the plug hole with a torch and turn the engine over you will see the valve moving across the plug hole, this is probably what broke your pencil, only use this method on a 2 stroke. Your engine is a small bore version of the modern (ish) cg150 engine and is a pushrod ohv model. The cylider head is very easy to remove and your valve timing will not be upset by doing so.


Ah right, thanks.

If I can't old-method TDC and the inspection allen key bolts on the crankcase are rounded so I can't turn the engine via them.. how can I find TDC to adjust the valves?
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Bambam3
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PostPosted: 13:16 - 30 Jun 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

supermono wrote:
Can I ask what you are trying to do to the bike, are you trying to adjust the tappets?


Valve clearance yeah. Simple, but causing me massive headches.
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kt
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PostPosted: 13:17 - 30 Jun 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

mattsprattuk wrote:
just run it up with the pencil bits in it. It wont damage it, and it'll get broken up and spat out in its own time.
My ktm ran for a while with half an aluminium carb slide sucked into the cylinder and there was no damage whatsoever after lifting the head when it finally clattered to a halt.


Are you mad? the pencil could jam the valves and destroy the engine.
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kt
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PostPosted: 13:22 - 30 Jun 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Op, its really easy to do without timing marks. just turn your engine over until the exhaust valve tappet clearance is at its maximum (biggest gap) then set to the proper gap. repeat the process for the inlet valve and do the same but you WILL need to remove the cylinder head and remove the pencil you have no option or risk wrecking the engine.
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hmmmnz
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PostPosted: 13:23 - 30 Jun 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Waxaddict wrote:


Ah right, thanks.

If I can't old-method TDC and the inspection allen key bolts on the crankcase are rounded so I can't turn the engine via them.. how can I find TDC to adjust the valves?


you don't need to find tdc!!!
all you have to do is watch the cam, when the lobe isn't pressing on the rocker arm, then you can slide your feeler guage between the cam and the rocker,
then move on to the next valve, turning the engine over untill that cam lobe is oppisite the rocker arm


man thats some dumb shit Very Happy
live and learn aye Very Happy
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Bambam3
Renault 5 Driver



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PostPosted: 13:29 - 30 Jun 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

supermono wrote:
Op, its really easy to do without timing marks. just turn your engine over until the exhaust valve tappet clearance is at its maximum (biggest gap) then set to the proper gap. repeat the process for the inlet valve and do the same but you WILL need to remove the cylinder head and remove the pencil you have no option or risk wrecking the engine.


Ok cheers, much appreciated. Thumbs Up
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kt
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PostPosted: 13:30 - 30 Jun 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

hmmmnz wrote:
Waxaddict wrote:


Ah right, thanks.

If I can't old-method TDC and the inspection allen key bolts on the crankcase are rounded so I can't turn the engine via them.. how can I find TDC to adjust the valves?


you don't need to find tdc!!!
all you have to do is watch the cam, when the lobe isn't pressing on the rocker arm, then you can slide your feeler guage between the cam and the rocker,
then move on to the next valve, turning the engine over untill that cam lobe is oppisite the rocker arm


man thats some dumb shit Very Happy
live and learn aye Very Happy


the engine is of the overhead valve variety and as such does not have a can acting in the rocker arms but is push rod activated via a single lob cam in the bottom of the engine.
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