Bike written off without payout,insurance won't give it back

G777 · L Plate Warrior Joined: 05 Jul 2010 Karma :

Hi all,

I wrote off my bike 3 months ago.. broken bones healing nicely. Carol Nash recovered the bike to a distant location and say it's written off. I suspect the recovery agent took it a long way away cos it has lots of very expensive bits on it he can sell and he doesn't want me to go get it. Despite an agreed valuation they are arguing the toss about the payout, so I have no money yet.

So.. my question if anyone can help me is this... The bike is still mine, so I know if I ask for it back they have to give it to me, but do they also have to deliver it to me or do I have to go and get it?

Any advice would be much appreciated, cheers.

Kickstart · The Oracle Joined: 04 Feb 2002 Karma :

Hi

The bike is yours, but you can either go and pick it up or pay them to deliver it. And you will have to pay for the recovery and storage of the bike up to now (which should be covered by your claim).

What category of write off is it?

All the best

Keith
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Hetzer · Super Spammer Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Karma :

ripzay · Nitrous Nuisance Joined: 01 Dec 2008 Karma :

Not sure where you stand legally.. you are correct in saying that you still own the bike, but the storage facility would also be correct in saying that you owe them for the storage / transport..

A lesson learnt..

You should always keep the bike in your possession and demand that the insurers assessors come to you to assess pre-accident value vs. post accident value. that way you are always in control.. if you want to keep the bike, they just pay you the difference.. if you don't, they pay you in full and collect the bike!

Lets face it.. no matter how much an insurance company says they are looking out for you (the customer), it is not the case... so cover yourself!

I'd keep all correspondence with them in paper format from here-on, by recorded post, give them time-scales to stick to.. 14 days is the 'standard' adequate response time.. after all they are providing you with a service.. which you have presumably paid for...

What exactly are they arguing about with regards to the payout if you don't mind me asking?
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Previous: 1994 Suzuki GSX-R 400

G777 · L Plate Warrior Joined: 05 Jul 2010 Karma :

Thanks for the quick reply Keith.. they haven't told me the category of write off - damage is £3800 and they value the bike at £3300 (I say a lot more). I won't pay for storage, but I guess I'll just have to go get it back.

Ripzay.. couldn't do much with regard to keeping the bike, was out cold and badly broken in hospital after that. They were bickering about what they call "accessories" and I call "replacement parts".

Hetzer.. Just spoke to insurance about getting it back and suddenly they've agreed to pay out the full amount I requested.. problem solved.. but I bet that's because the salvage company have been selling the bits.

I'll definately be a lot sharper next time (hopefully there isn't a next time). When I was lying in a hospital bed I naively expected my insurance company to treat me fairly... hmm... er.. no.

Kickstart · The Oracle Joined: 04 Feb 2002 Karma :

ripzay · Nitrous Nuisance Joined: 01 Dec 2008 Karma :

You could ask them to part-settle on the value of the bike as standard so you get some of your money, and bicker with them for the rest of time until you get your 'replacement parts' paid back ?
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Current: 2005 KTM SuperDuke 990
Previous: 1996 Suzuki Bandit 600
Previous: 1994 Suzuki GSX-R 400

G777 · L Plate Warrior Joined: 05 Jul 2010 Karma :

Kieth.. Not sure "fairly" involves ignoring phone calls and letters, failing to provide data requested under the data protection act, denying an agreed valuation, lying about my agreeing to a valuation and then allowing my property to be sold without my knowledge.

But anyhow.. it's sorted now..thanks for your help everyone Smile

Kickstart · The Oracle Joined: 04 Feb 2002 Karma :

Hi

Can't reply to all of that, but giving a value when you take out a policy is not an agreed valuation (which isn't common on a non classic policy), while not sure from anything you have said that your property has been sold.

All the best

Keith
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G777 · L Plate Warrior Joined: 05 Jul 2010 Karma :

When I rang to take the policy I told them I wanted to insure for a value of £X due to modifications x,y and z, clearly stated. They took the money and sent me a certificate with this value on it. Then when it came time to claim they denied it. When I asked to be sent the recording of the call and paid them to provide it under the data protection act they sent me an obviously (and by their own admission) edited version of the call (with the relevant part missing). I found my bike advertised for sale on the web this afternoon and called to ask WTF was going on and they very quickly decided that maybe they would pay £X after all. I appreciate you are being devils advocate on this one, but honestly their behaviour has been indefensible.

iooi · Super Spammer Joined: 14 Jan 2007 Karma :

You are forgetting Carol Nash are not the insurance company. They are only insurance brokers.
So you need to name and shame the real company.

As to the certificate, pretty sure they all list the value you quote. But that does not mean much, as you have to remember the depreciation.
At least you were honest and declared the extra parts Thumbs Up

which made your case stronger.
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G777 · L Plate Warrior Joined: 05 Jul 2010 Karma :

True.. The underwriter is EQUITY RED STAR. Although CN were still responsible for failing to provide the requested data under the act.

Ste · Not Work Safe Joined: 01 Sep 2002 Karma :

Advertising a bike for sale when you're not the owner is fraud by misrepresentation, isn't it? Whatever the name of it, I'm pretty certain that it's a crime and I'd be looking into the possibility of bringing it to the attention of the police.

multijoy · World Chat Champion Joined: 03 Oct 2008 Karma :

Ste · Not Work Safe Joined: 01 Sep 2002 Karma :

Kickstart · The Oracle Joined: 04 Feb 2002 Karma :

G777 · L Plate Warrior Joined: 05 Jul 2010 Karma :

If I specifically ask for an insured value which is higher than the book price and I explain why and list the mods.. their acceptance of those terms verbally is a legally binding agreement whether they like it or not. The proof is on the tape which IS covered by the data protection act...

The Data Protection Act 1998 ("DPA")

Recording (and use of recordings) where Company X would be able to establish the identity of either party to the call, either directly from the recording or from other information which it is conceivable that Company X could obtain, would require you to first:

* (i) Have informed that party how the recording would be used;
* (ii) Obtain consent for the recording to take place (This may be implied from the fact that the customer has been notified and not object, but it is you should obtain explicit consent if the call reveals any information classified as sensitive by the DPA, ie details of race/ethnic background, political opinion, religion, trade union membership, physical/mental health, sexual life, offences committed or legal proceeding bought.)
* (iii) The obligations in relation to processing of that data also apply, so that the data must be kept for longer than necessary, under secure conditions and must be accessible to the customer at their request.

Polarbear · Super Spammer Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Karma :

when I insured my Goldwing Trike with / via carol Nash, I insisted on a valuation figure that would be paid out in event of crash/theft/fire irrespective of ANYTHING. I had to send photos and it cost me quite a lot. £700 for a 51 year old when my busa is £250 and my last Goldwing bike was £180.
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dansrockin · Scooby Slapper Joined: 22 Feb 2009 Karma :

when i had my harleys, i insured them with HD insurance and they did an agreed valuation, but i had to send pics of any accessories and have a certificate signed by a dealer stating what they thought the replacement value was.

Kickstart · The Oracle Joined: 04 Feb 2002 Karma :

G777 · L Plate Warrior Joined: 05 Jul 2010 Karma :

As I said, I was very specific about amending the terms of the agreement, so this recording will stand aside from and above the standard documentation. The act covers the entire recording where any part of it contains personally identifiable information, like for instance "my name".

I'm beginning to think you work for them Kickstart Smile

Regardless, they are paying out, and they wouldn't do that unless they knew they had to. Unless of course you think they are a wonderful benevolent organisation?

Ste · Not Work Safe Joined: 01 Sep 2002 Karma :

Do you have the amended terms of the agreement in writing? Confused

Kickstart · The Oracle Joined: 04 Feb 2002 Karma :

Hi

The agreement is very clear that any agreed value is only valid if they have received and accepted the specified proof. This is what you have agreed to in the terms and conditions. Did you provide this proof and did they accept it?

As to paying out, most likely they have just realised that what you are asking for is within the bounds of a market value for the bike and accessories (as they are covered).

I don't work for any insurer, just trying to put a non biased position of what you and your insurer have agreed.

Going back to earlier posts, make sure you know what is happening with the bike. Make sure that the recovery agent is being paid as part of the claim (ie, don't accept a full and final settlement without it being covered). You don't want to get hit for recovery and 3 months storage. Standard Police rates for that (I assume the recovery was ordered by attending police) would be around £1000 (ie , £150 recovery fee, £10 a day storage, although odd bits to do partial days, collection within a certain time, etc).

I suspect if they were selling it then legally it was to cover their costs from storage, etc. Seems they can do this after 7 days of you being notified of its recovery Confused

, although that seems pretty dodgy after a serious accident. In such a situation you would receive anything extra after clearing their charges compared to what it is sold for.

All the best

Keith
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Hetzer · Super Spammer Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Karma :

Kickstart · The Oracle Joined: 04 Feb 2002 Karma :

Hi

I know the call centre monkey has very little knowledge to go on. Hence why you need to read the terms and conditions that you are agreeing to when you receive them. If they do not give you what you think was agreed then you need to go back to them and get it sorted or cancel the agreement under the distance selling rules (a major reason they are there).

All the best

Keith
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