%&^@!!! CG Headlamp

[tahrey]

OK ... now, the Honda CG's headlamp is probably notoriously naff, I take it?

However I can't quite shake the feeling mine is naffer than most. It's somehow got through the MOT but god only knows how. Most of the light is shining on the front wheel and mudguard, and only a little up the road. Can sort of make safe 40mph progress on a semi moonlit night if there's decent cats eyes, but getting over 30 is a right gamble if it's murky and the road is poorly marked, and alternating between holding up the traffic and crapping myself when a hazard I can only JUST brake for looms out of the murk is getting old.

I know it's only a 35w bulb, but the pattern seems to make it far worse than it needs to be ... and woe betide you if you try to use full beam as the wheel gets even more light, the verges and the occasional very reflective distant sign get a bit more illumination, and anything you could previously just about make out rushing towards you in the middle of your lane disappears.

So to cut a long story short, how do we improve this? I know I have the option of installing a 55/60w or at least 35w halogen bulb with the same base fitting, but I don't know if that'll do any good (would the bulb shape do much for the pattern?) and I'd rather not risk overloading the alternator too much (45w maybe?). It seems more that the reflector design is just crap - I swear I get more light and a more coherent pattern from my 2x C-cell bicycle lamp. All the replacements I've seen so far are too big for the existing mounts or likely just CG compatibles built to the same spec. Quite tempted to get a couple of those little "Ring" car foglamps from Halfords (which come with universal brackets) and angle one to dip and one to main beam positions...

All suggestions gratefully received...
BTW "don't ride at night" or "only ride on lit roads" isn't an option, unfortunately.

[m0l0t0v]

Eat more carrots. Get night vision.


Win.




Other than that, not much you can do. I think the bulb is limited to the very small battery it has... I may be wrong.

All 125's tend to have shit lights.
____________________
'99 Hornet 600 , VFR 400 NC30 '92 , Kasawamasaki GT 550 , '98 Hornet 600
**\Tarmacsurfer/** said: It's that immaculately manly coiffure of yours isn't it. One glimpse of your virile locks and the punters can't wait to buy whatever it is you suggest, as it might let them be just a little bit like the Adonis that is our very own Molly Doovydoo said: Its not my fault I can't get it up properly, I just wasn't blessed

[Daryl86]

https://www.slips.co.uk/images/super/NightTracker.jpg

+

https://www.connevans.co.uk/store/images/853501ecb.gif

[ripzay]

Options:

1) fit a completely different headlight unit - risk failing MOT because most aftermarket units fail on light scatter (even if E marked)

2) install a 55w bulb and isolate the circuit using a relay (don't forget to put a fuse in - some relays have them built in)

obviously to do either of these your battery has to be up to it and so does your generator & reg rec / alternator / whatever your bike uses
____________________
Current: 2005 KTM SuperDuke 990
Previous: 1996 Suzuki Bandit 600
Previous: 1994 Suzuki GSX-R 400

[DrDonnyBrago]

https://hondacg125.awardspace.com/accessories.htm#Headlight%20Bulb

Some tips on there about the headlight and how to make it less naff .

[The Shaggy D.A.]

I'd rig up a light bar and add some extra lights. Must be plenty of chinese cruisers at the breakers you could fettle with.

https://www.minifrenzy.com/prodimages/CobraLightBar-StyleB.png

If you've got engine bars, you could mount some spots on them, I had some on my RT :-

https://p1.bikepics.com/pics/2004%5C08%5C28%5Cbikepics-202568-320.jpg
____________________
Chances are quite high you are not in my Monkeysphere, and I don't care about you. Don't take it personally.
Currently : Royal Enfield 350 Meteor
Previously : CB100N > CB250RS > XJ900F > GT550 > GPZ750R/1000RX > AJS M16 > R100RT > Bullet 500 > CB500 > LS650P > Bullet Electra X & YBR125 > Bullet 350 "Superstar" & YBR125 Custom > Royal Enfield Classic 500 Despatch Limited Edition (28 of 200) & CB Two-Fifty Nighthawk > ER5

[rob_scott92]

I had a similar problem with the Gs, think it just comes with the teritory

I actually found that i could see more with dipped beam, all full beam used to do was light up the things you were riding past like trees and stuff
Other than that, just hope that your next bike can light up the road better.
Actually come to think of it, i havent actually ridden my new bike in the dark yet. Before all i know it could be much worse
____________________
First bike: 1982 Suzuki Gs 125 'The beast MK1' > 1988 Honda Cb 350's' FOR SPORT! (Good ol' oil burner!) > 2001 Suzuki Sv 650 's' Made it out of the 80's! > 1997 Honda Cbr 600f :p

[Alexio]

I feel safe making progress at 50 - 60MPH on my CG on dark country roads. I do put my high beam on though. Maybe yours is just mis-aligned? You could order a new CG headlamp or give the old one a good clean and bit of TLC?
____________________
will never give up his CG. I look at my fuel gauge more as a progress bar than a fuel gauge.
G: With my GSXR I do often effectively use it as a scooter with a clutch in town.
ms51ves3: why does it need 500 miles? Are you teaching it how to be a piston?

[stonesie]

I have just had a look into this (as I'm used to the HID's on my car) and this popped up.
https://www.f2motorcycles.ltd.uk/uralengineupgrades.html

Might be worth a look


Edit
About half way down the page.

[neil.]

The YBR uses a 35/35 old style ba20d bulb as well. I replaced it with a 35/35 halogen quite soon after I bought the bike, in fact, it looks the same as the one on the CG website a few posts above and it's quite a bit brighter, although you're never going to get miracles with a 125, it is a big improvement over the original.

I will also say that for me, the Halfords Bike It bulb has lasted millions of times longer than cheap halogens you get on eBay for a couple of quid - they tended to blow quickly. Also make sure you clean the bulb with meths before you install it and don't touch the glass at all with your fingers (handle it with kitchen paper or something else). And make sure the headlamp shell lens is clean on the inside (if you can get to it) and outside as it has a big affect too.
____________________
CBT February 2008 | A2 June 2008 | Yamaha YBR125 (written off) | Honda CBF125 (current)

[N cee thirty]

yerr as alexio said,it could be miss lined

i rode around with the light in the sky untill i realised that it wasn't right
____________________
'00 Aprilia RS50 > '92 Honda CG > '99 Yamaha Fazer > '91 Yamaha RXS > '79 Suzuki X5 > 01' Honda Cg > 07' Honda Cg > 82' Kawasaki Z200 > suzuki gsxr 400 gk73a > honda vfr 400 NC30 Mod 2 Passed 09/06/2011

Jewlio Iglesias wrote: I actually did vote BNP once

[herulach]

My is in the process of being converted to a 7" I got from a duff hornet. Just need to find myself some decent lengths of wire, that doesn't cost the earth.

It's not a difficult swap assuming the cg is side mounting, and the beam pattern is significantly better, you'll need to uprate the wiring, although I don't know what the alternator on a CG is like.
____________________
YBR 125>FZS600

[tahrey]

Holy crap, that's a lot of replies very fast cheers!

I have seen the awardspace stuff a while ago, quite considering the tricks to increase power (better bulb, upgraded wiring & fuse etc) but not sure on the worth when 2/3rds of it is being cast straight on the ground. The existing wattage (+ halogen?) would be fine for 50ish if only it was actually focussed on the road where I'm going rather than where I already am and/or the leafy bits where I'd only end up if sideswiped.

Must say I'm liking the carrots & high powered torch ideas probably got a wind-up LED job somewhere that would do the trick. Could mount it right on top of the front wheel and have it wound up that way like an old dynamo.

I did, before it was MOTed, adjust the light aim quite a lot higher than standard, which helped both full and dipped beam, but the MOTing garage reset it to even lower than what it was when I bought it... so I figure that way it somehow conforms to the standard pattern, even if for some retarded reason it requires wasting most of the light to do so.

Seen some replacements around and about but dunno what fits (eg can the undersized 5.75" mount be adapted to 7"?) or would be suitable, hence the confusion

Anyway, time to read and consider the other stuff... too tired to remember and think about too much at once.

Oh and this is likely to stay my bike for at least a few more months, into winter and dark commutes. Haven't the funds to upgrade and I'm all about the economy right now. Might go for a CBF150 or something if there's any around... later.

[tahrey]

OK, an even longer one, most likely. I've actually composed this in notepad whilst reading the thread....

Shaggy: Ooh, that looks interesting! ... and my uncle's well into his lambrettas, could get him to lend a hand or maybe even the parts. More chrome, though...
Not got engine bars, probably should look into getting some before I have my first, inevitable tumble, but knowing my luck it'll happen a few hours before they arrive from the suppliers. On the dryest, warmest day of the year, giddy with pride having just passed my DAS or something, never mind I was carving through the December slush with impunity not so long ago.

rob scott: pretty much that, yes...

Alexio: I've reached about that speed before, peering as hard as i could into the gloom. Then damn near shat myself as the cats eyes vanished, and half a mile later an unexpected tight right hander popped out of nowhere on an otherwise straight DC...
The bike's only 4 years old, been kept fairly clean, and the bulb in it is relatively new (fit it myself just before xmas). Innards didn't seem particularly grotty at the time. Still...

stonesie: O. M. G... jawdrop moment. What they say about it being european spec and rotated in the cowl to suit our standards is pretty much what I was suspecting might be the case (bit odd for a jap bike designed for the 3rd world to be like that though?). or in other words, "it's like it's on upside down" (& then aimed super low to avoid dazzling everyone), even though everything appeared to be bolted in the right way round. Though that's a completely different bike from a different country, history does tend to repeat more often than you'd like.
May give those guys a buzz and see what they can tell me about the detail spec of that 3rd party lamp because it sounds just about spot-on in the brief. Plus there's the counterculture kudos of having something made for a russian steppe-basher installed.

neil: I've got a globe-shaped Bike It installed as the replacement, will see how long it lasts because I also put one of theirs in the numberplate lamp only to end up having to change it again a few months later - and that's only a 5w. Are you talking about the plain incandescent or some kind of halogen with the same wattage and fitting? If the latter, is it e.g. an online-only/order-in item or something? None of the 3 halfords in easy reach have had anything with a B20d other than this glorified extractor fan bulb and its 25w/6v cousin.
The tip about cleaning the inside of the lens may be worth a go despite its youth. I work with projectors for a living including some back-projection stuff and it's amazing the difference in brightness you get from wiping even a thin layer of dust off the optical mirrors.

rob yarr: Heh, I wish! It's very definitely in the floor not the sky. I've nobbed about moving it up and down before though and it only makes a slight (though potentially valuable) difference even with the lamp canted up quite high and stretching the cable.

ripzay: Anything I put in can't be any much worse than the current one, scatter-wise. Like I say, I've got a bike lamp sat on the kitchen table that I found in the back of the shed a few days ago. It came with my cycle, has a 1.6w bulb, and must be worth about two quid fifty at retail. Even that has a better pattern and less overall scatter.
ripzay/herulach: I could put a stronger bulb in and muck about with relays/switches, but that seems a fair bit of work for something that may only have marginal effects (thanks to how human perception works, you need like 10x the power to have 2x apparent illumination). Plus I'm saving the cocking about with relays for if I try to install a switched side-stand. The battery and alternator should be up to it - it is an electric start model and presumably it has to be able to kick out a little extra juice than would be covered by ignition + all usual lights + sat waiting with brake + indicator on at idle rpms, so you've got a hope of recovering power lost to the starter. I'm not likely to do that (which frees up a good 25w or so from the brakelamp, 1/2 duty indicator and its relay wastage), and do gun it quite a bit. Besides, you get enough of these seen with hotgrips fitted.
herulach: Is it easy to adapt the mountings, then? I'll admit at this point I haven't actually looked yet, having come across this board unexpectedly - after I'd thought of it, but before checking it out! I'm good for all manner of wire thanks to my work. If nothing else, mains cable should easily cover it. I've overloaded it when blindly repurposing it for automotive use before (car ignition inc. starter... hey it's good for 3kw continuous, right? Yes - but not, it turns out, 30+ amps all too often, regardless of voltage, nor the kind of harsh waveforms experienced in ignition systems)... but if it can't handle 5 amps or so, it shouldn't be going in a building either...

Many thanks for the response to this, plenty of stuff to look into. Now I'll have to also brave asking about my star-crossed tyre.

... maybe after a sle..zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[neil.]

Hi,

I meant the long 'tube' shape bulb rather than the round one, which is pants. Halfords do them:

https://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_storeId_10001_catalogId_10151_productId_263257_langId_-1_categoryId_165582

Much more expensive than the cheap ones that look the same on eBay but as I've said, my experience with those is that they don't last me more than a couple of weeks before blowing, and I've had the current Bike It one in there since the start of last winter (I ride 4 days a week for about 2 hours a day so that's good going!).
____________________
CBT February 2008 | A2 June 2008 | Yamaha YBR125 (written off) | Honda CBF125 (current)

[herulach]

I'd second the bulb neil suggests.

Assuming that it's a side mount, its just a case of swapping the headlamp if you can find one to fit. Bates do a 5.75 one, but unless you can find it second hand it's pretty expensive.
____________________
YBR 125>FZS600

[WetSparks]

From the sounds of it, you need to replace the headlamp unit. But then you still have the problem of restricted light output owing to your alternator size. So, you say you have HID on your car, why not fit one to the bike. Buckets of light output and the same or less power consumed.

[tahrey]

> Neil
Thanks for that... a HMB417, eh. I've looked all over their shelves before and not seen anything like that, and even asked the staff if they've got something along those lines, but the stock checker is still showing at least 2 in every nearby store I know about (and several I didn't). Odd. I'll have a peek on my way home though, if any of them are open til 8 on a weekday. Might pick up a couple just in case this is a case of the "little magic shop" that disappears as soon as you turn your back... can always return it unopened in a few days if it doesn't do any good.

> Herulach
Yes it's a sidemount, but other than that I'm not sure on what you mean. Is it easy to adjust the mounts for a larger unit (almost certainly what I'd have to go for as far as I can see), or am I limited to the existing smaller-than-most one?

> WetSparks
Maybe, except that's a whole lot extra stuff to put on the bike, doesn't start up straight away, and may put extra load on the battery or alternator anyhow whilst coming on. It basically works like a fluorescent (except without the UV and phosphors) as far as I can tell. Plus, unless that comes with its own properly shaped reflector, I'll still end up with a dim light cast up the road (unless it's radically brighter than what the MOT allows) but an eye-searing front mudguard.

I know with only 35w available, or even 1x45~60w, I'm not going to be able to work miracles, but all I want is to be able to go fast enough to keep out the way of juggernauts - at which speed, my alternator will be at max output anyway. I could still see well enough to do 75+ in my first car with its non-halogen 55w bulbs because they actually focussed the light properly (and probably 60+ when one of them blew out). 50mph shouldn't be an impossible dream (heh) with one well-focussed 35-ish watt halogen.

Besides as I say, I haven't got hotgrips but it's supposedly got enough reserve to run those. If I get some AND a more powerful light, well, we'll just see what the limits of the 'leccy start CG alternator ARE. I've got an old 1A car battery charger I could use to briefly juice it the first time it runs low, then get hold of an inexpensive bike trickle charger to plug it into overnight (or, hell, it's not too heavy a bike to push uphill, and my driveway leads down to the road, from the garage where the old 35w will be stored ready to swap back in. Could even carry it with me the same way I do the alternative heat grade spark plug).

[tahrey]

How strange!
I put a halogen bulb in... everything got a lot better. I'm now considering giving a 60w'er a go if I can get hold of one affordably. I still hold with my previous arguments re light output levels, but it should give maybe a 1.2x realworld improvement... and as I was happily risking up to 50mph (which I felt confident to sustain - vs my previous scary 35 - and was easily within the stopping distance allowed by the beam) with the new one in, 60 should then be possible, which is basically flat out for me on A-roads.

What appears to be the main improvement is that my old bulb was actually a/ internally knackered (the reflector was melted out of shape) and b/ misaligned (holder not connected right, maybe causing a/ and certainly exacerbating the situation). Plus the front of the globe shape bulb was leaking a lot of light forward in an uncontrolled, unfocussed fashion and had strangely shaped filaments. The halogen, as well as giving a small boost in lumens and CRI, seems to give much better focussed output - through a combination of not being broken, my fixing the alignment, different internal design, and a silvered tip that sends probably an extra 25-33% more light towards the main concave reflector, allowing it to exit in a controlled manner.

Given how ruined the bulb was, some of the difficulty I had getting the new one to fit (and how I fixed it), and the stark improvement in lighting quality, I'm actually chopping together a webpage with photos on it so those that come after know what to check for and can see how "good" (well, OK, "tolerably usable") even the standard setup on this bike can be with a decent midlevel bulb and a bit of care. Will stick a link in once done. (Don't want to take up too much room on here with the images, and the threaded discussion structure doesn't allow the flexibility I'm after in constructing it)

[herulach]

I assume it's a plastic reflector? If so you'll struggle with a 60W bulb even if yu can find one as it'll just melt. Measure the distance between the mounts and head to your local breaker. Bet you can pick one up for less than a tenner, just make sure it's a H4 bulb
____________________
YBR 125>FZS600

[neil.]

A 60W bulb will put a lot of demand on the puny electrical system of the CG. Unfortunately, without any serious modding, I'd say a 35/35 halogen is the best you're going to get, and for me I find that's fine.
____________________
CBT February 2008 | A2 June 2008 | Yamaha YBR125 (written off) | Honda CBF125 (current)

[tahrey]

I can't be sure without pulling it out again, but I think it's a metal reflector. At least, the casing is. The lens is definitely plastic (but would hopefully be partly protected by the lower heat, shorter length and silvered end of the halogen bulb) and the inner coating of the reflector, well, who knows?

Still, if I ruin it, scrapyard time. Dunno where I'd get a H4 suitable one from or how to easily recognise it. Given that the actual bulb connector bit is completely detachable from both the reflector and the wiring loom, couldn't I just replace that? It's maybe needless anyway, as I've found sources for 40/45, 45/45, 50/50 and 55/60w BA20d-ended ones after a bit of googling, and apparently you can get H7-to-BA20d adaptors (... though I'm yet to actually find one that can be bought - the closest thus far was a nasty-looking ebay auction for a 45w'er with a blue end, rather than silver, with an "integrated heat-reducing base" that was quite clearly a H7 bulb soldered into one of those adaptors).

(I suppose the advantage of that is that I could then use one of those Xenon jobs that gives "80% brighter light than ordinary halogen" or whatever? By that point i'd already be using a 60w'er though...)

Also, has anyone actually TRIED a higher wattage bulb before and seen what effect it has on the reflector, lens, alternator, battery? All I've seen so far is stuff along the lines of "it'll probably not work", etc. It does however have enough power to recharge the battery in a half hour of city riding after multiple starting attempts on a miserable damp morning, and evidently enough to work grip heaters, which must be 20+ watts themselves?

Could be I have to be that experimental soldier. I'm game for it... wouldn't be the first time I've done something totally inadvisable to a vehicle and had it work OK. Combine it with the stand switch for complete electrical meltdown and a crowd of people saying "we told you so"...?

(Whilst I'm at it, may as well go all out and add a killswitch, hazard flasher, "pass" flasher (turns on both the dip and full beams AFAICT) and maybe a remote cable-operated thingy for the choke that'll also tweak the throttle slightly to keep the engine running whilst it's fully on... and a rear foglight... and some decorative fairy lights all around it in time for xmas )

Mind you, it's not actually that bad. Dip isn't far off what's achieveable with car lights, I realised when getting my own one finally back in service (£350 gearbox change ... don't ask). Had reasoned that the very limited range dip-chop on the borrowed Micra was down to it being a tinpot pile of awfulness, but no... in both of them, there's actually only about a safe visible distance to stop from about 50-55mph, leaning very hard on the brakes. Where things massively improve is on full beam... could probably manage 120 with no problem.

[tahrey]

An alternative idea, inspired from something on the HotGrips site, having googled for the power use of such things (from 18 to 42 watts, depending on model and power setting...)

LEDs!
LED "pilot light" up front (-4w), LED tail & stop lamp (-4w continuous, probably -18w vs typical load when brake applied), and maybe the indicators too (similar story to the brake, except for the 50% duty cycle). That would at least offset almost all of the extra drain due to a 45w bulb and make a 55/60 one less troublesome.

Problem: cost, and the hassle of fitting...

Also a master switch somewhere to cut out the headlamp entirely would probably be wise (say, when warming up the engine, or having the ignition on but engine off when needing either a "momentarily parked" indicator on, or some low level illumination in the garage when the ceiling light-switch is unavailable)??

[neil.]

LED's are a great idea in my opinion. I actually did the replacements you speak of on the YBR. You can get sidelight, stop/tail and indicator drop in replacement bulbs with the same fittings (T10 '501' wedge, BA15s and BA15d respectively). No need to change bulb holders. Whilst you're at it, save a few more watts and replace the instrument cluster bulbs. Don't know about the CG but I'd guess they'd be similar to the YBR - more T10 (501's) and T6.5's. There are actually 8 bulbs in the YBR's cluster so it's a fair saving. Initial outlay is quite high (but not too bad if you look on eBay) but once fitted, you shouldn't need to touch them again for the life of the bike. One thing I noticed is that my headlight doesn't dim slightly any more when I apply the brake or have the indicators on. I also run heated grips (direct from the battery) and a sat-nav (off the ignition switch) which don't seem to bother the electrical system at all.

It all comes down to a matter of how much money, time and energy you want to put into this, and weighing it up against the outcomes.
____________________
CBT February 2008 | A2 June 2008 | Yamaha YBR125 (written off) | Honda CBF125 (current)

[tahrey]

Well, hearing it's possible is definitely a good start. Forgot all about the clocks (and the reg plate light)! That's probably a further 5w overall if not more.

Like you say, it's a bit of a cost though. Had a look in halfords, even their cheapest LEDs are like 2-3x the price of the normal (and currently still perfectly good) bulbs, and the units on sale in "proper" bike shops make them look like penny chews. It would be an investment, but I wonder if it would be money better spent on fitting a better alternator instead?
(Like, say, one of your Yamaha jobs, given it can run grips (direct from the battery, brave... don't leave 'em on!) AND a satnav charger without blinking...)

If I'm going to do it, I'll have to make it a proper concerted effort. For a start, looking over the wiring diagram - whether in the proper manual or haynes - is making my head swim, and I'm usually OK with electrics. The whole loom together in the middle of the page, in minutely varying shades of dark grey - it could barely be less clear if they recreated the whole thing on a PCB and provided you with a photograph of the traces. Plus from what I can make out of it thus far, it's not the simplistic case of "circuit A has switch B and C in series, that feed the input of lamp D and relay E, which controls the switching of circuit F", but some kind of esoteric setup where the differing resistance of one loop vs the other has a significant effect on the switching of the whole thing. Nnnngh.

I'm going to have to drag the scanner out of the cupboard, drop the whole mess into Paintshop, trace over each track with the colour the written key claims it is IRL, then seperate each subcircuit out into it's own layer for clearer analysis. That or rip the bike apart itself. Plus do a bit of maths - the official manual says it produces 155w at 5000rpm (a speed I'm rarely much below outside of traffic jams and residential areas), and the Haynes lists various other figures for the 6v and kickstart era alternators (inc battery charging rates), from which I can hopefully figure out what the real headroom is. There may actually be a lot of power being shunted through the regulator resistor, in which case I'd be as well to siphon it off for lights, phone charger etc, rather than putting in a light-cut switch that sends even more that way.

(incredible it can get away with that - on full beam the power demand from my car lights alone is over 250w The environmentalists must hate us ... I wonder if a BA20d full-LED headlamp will be on the cards any time soon? I can tell you from painful experience that even a modest 5-way button cell powered miners-type torch is blinding)

On the plus side, I've had a little nose around the stock in the local Honda garage, and I reckon a CBF stand would be worth a gamble - the bolt hole is a bit lower to the ground than mine, but that's comparing a CG sitting proud on the centrestand to a CBF on its wheels and canted over a little. The (push-)switch (thought they were rotary, before!) fits on the same mounting, unlike the YBR one which needs a place on the actual frame to mount it, so it's all good. Also, the 35w halogen is actually doing quite well, at least on intermittently moonlit nights. I still reckon something a little stronger will be needed for winter, but I'm in no rush whilst more important other things happen instead.

edit:
I think I might take *slightly* more care than this, though
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XS1ua2G3nyQ
Home electrical parts on automotive circuits = this isn't going to end well. Though at least it's not tripping out.