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Digitalize
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Joined: 09 Aug 2009
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PostPosted: 23:14 - 07 Jul 2010    Post subject: Bike to Bike Radios. Reply with quote
Me and a couple friends are looking to get these, warn each other about plod, dodgy corners, and just chat while on ride outs. A lot i have seen are only 2 way, where ideally we want 8 way! 5Km range would probably be enough, we tend to ride in a fairly small pack, not split up etc. We all have full face lids.

Whats out there that is suitable? Also gotta be a good price though! Not much more than £50 including headset.
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Nai
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PostPosted: 23:18 - 07 Jul 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
OK, this isn't going to be a 5km range, but worth a google. I have seen Blue tooth radio packs that allow up to 24 people to talk to each other on. Best range I doubt would be 5km though, blue-tooth's range normally isn't to good. At best you could give the guy in the middle of the group the blue tooth pack (its not bike, about the size of a mobile) and everyone stays within range of him with blue tooth headsets.

For a full 5 km range though I am guessing you'll need better than blue tooth.
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Digitalize
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PostPosted: 23:20 - 07 Jul 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Bluetooth range is generally about 10 meters.... Its a restriction of the format AFAIK. One of use has a Bluetooth headset, can't remember the brand, sits on the outside of his helmet, lets him speak to pillion if they also have one, and phone. Was about £400 for the pair though Shocked
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Nai
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PostPosted: 23:25 - 07 Jul 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yikes! Shame Blue Tooth has such dire range. Except for when someone's wanted to do blue tooth me something from an Iphone its always worked and always been clear for me.

The blue tooth radio I saw was in a Maplins store, cant find it anywhere on the website.
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Teflon-Mike
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Joined: 01 Jun 2010
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PostPosted: 23:37 - 07 Jul 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
what you are talking about is PMR, the little walkie talkies like you get given to do CBT, only the 'high-street' veriety that dont quite have the same clarity or range.
And for £50 a hand-set, you WILL struggle.
NOT intended as comment for bike-to-bike, but car to car, green-laning in Land-rovers, THIS on my webby may make interesting reading.
PMR the little 'licence exempt' walkie talkies you get in bubble packs at Aldi for a tenner a pair are pretty crap, and working up the market to the kind of Pro kit thats still licence exempt that MIGHT just have the balls for the job, you are looking at around £100 a hand-set PLUS £50 or so for a decent head-set to make it work in a helmet.
CB Radio, slightly bigger, slightly bulkier, but DEFINITELY more 'beefy' has 16 times the power and WILL get the kind of range you want.
Hand-Held CB sets though start at about £100, and again you'll need head-sets, AND probably PTT switch on the bike handl-bars.
Voice activation isn't common on CB's.
But on either you CAN 'group-talk.
If you want to get seriousely CYBER though, SOME-ONE mentioned to me mobile-Internet, and the possibility of using a web-phone or small web-enabled device like a net-book, fitted with blue-tooth headset and running a Skype type program, essentially so you could get a 'conference call' via mobile phone, but without the charges..... maybe a nerd, but I'm not THAT big a geek, so THAT notion is WELL beyond me!
3x the price you mention though, and NOT legal, but something I have been considering is a 'modded' VOX PMR and head-set.
Expensive, illegal, but ideal, you get CB power, and Range from PMR sized and specced package. And the one I have been toying with, has option of 'open', transmission or 'encrypted', so you can talk to on eperson or selected group with access code, or any-one on the waves.... encryption is ALSO illegal though as far as I know, but there is a loop hole... not that it'll make uch difference on an illegally modded PMR!
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Digitalize
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PostPosted: 23:57 - 07 Jul 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hmmm, hadn't looked into CB that much.

Could be quite fun i guess, would a mounted one be able to fit under a fairly large seat? Is it roughly the size of a Car Radio, or bigger?

Could somehow create an aerial around the bike, wrap it round the front headlight or something.

Article mentioned 1W Motorola PMRs, whats the chance of being caught, or what is required to get a license?
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Teflon-Mike
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PostPosted: 00:28 - 08 Jul 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Digitalize wrote:
Hmmm, hadn't looked into CB that much.

Could be quite fun i guess, would a mounted one be able to fit under a fairly large seat? Is it roughly the size of a Car Radio, or bigger?

Could somehow create an aerial around the bike, wrap it round the front headlight or something.

Article mentioned 1W Motorola PMRs, whats the chance of being caught, or what is required to get a license?


The 1w Motorolas I had were.... VERY illegal, they operated on the up-link frequency for weather satalites!

You'll struggle to get any into the country unless you can get some-one to smuggle them in from Oz or the like in thier main luggage, and even then, tricky, if it has batteries, comes up on X-ray it WILL be opened.

Ship mail order, has to state on the shipping manifest, if theres no Certificate of Conformity to UK regs, it will be impounded.

Hence 'modded' PMR. he-he.

Works on the same frequency as 'Taxi' radio, which uless you have an operators licence you cant use at that power.... but whats the chances of getting cought? Its a mobile transmitter, on a 'busy' frequency, transmitting at a power WITHIN that permitted for licenced operators..... they would be hard pressed to pick out transmissions from a bunch of bikers talking about traffic snarl ups, from taxi-drivers, wouldn't they? and they'd be even harder pressed to get a triangulation fix on you, AND get a mobile unit out to you......

ALTHOUGH... you do have to be careful, as the air-wave police ARE more likely to monitor that frequency, for unlicenced taxi operators, and hence more likely to HAVE a mobile rig to send out after you.

Your call what you do, if you get a tug and they start searching you and asking awkward questions about a walkie talkie!

Radio I've been looking at, could be modded without any obviouse sign of tampering, and I'd plead ignorance and just say, 'must be broken mate!?" But the penalties CAN be high, If they chose to enforce.....

CB IS the safer bet, and Yes, Yes and probably!

Hand-Held CB sets now aren't MUCH bigger than a PMR, the Maycom unit would fit into the side pocket of my riding jaket, or into the pouch of my tank-bag.

Had the advantage that it has jacks to take a head set.

A 'mobile rig' ie car set, is smaller than a conventional car radio, but normally has the speaker in the set. Some have an out-put jack for an external speaker, though.

YES could be bike mounted, though I doubt youd get one under the seat of many bikes. Could easily go on the pillion squab under a cargo net though, but the main problem would be erecting the antene... are.. oh bugger it! The 'twig'! Arial (probably spelt that like the wshing powder but DILLIGAF!)

Bit of a laugh, but whey back when, I did my rider training with 'Star-Rider', before CBT was invented and we had the two part test.

Star rider were one of the consultants for CBT and they were also exponents of rider to student radio, curtecy of two radio ham, biker cops who instructed with them.

I was one of thier guinee pigs, and remember when they blagged some old police radios to try it out!

Imagine riding a Honda H100 with an old army amo box and a bludy great car battery bungeed on the pillion with a four foot areal stuck outthe top of the ammo-box!

Modern kit..... idea that fits would be to make a small box to bolt under a sports rack, and attach a tab to take an areal mount.

But changing channel and levels would be a bit awkward, especially if you didn't have the hand mike becouse you'd wired for a head-set and PTT switch.

Do-able.... but personally I'd base on a Hand-Held to make it easier. Could still jack-lead to an external bike mounted 'super-twig' to max the range & reception if you wanted; could even cut the fag-lighter plug of the 'battery eliminator' and wior to the bike battery for max power transmission.

Though, stuck in the pocket, running off internal battery, and nothing more than a helmet head-set, would work and should give adequete range. Remember its 16 times more powerful than a PMR, and you can get a 'good' six to ten miles out of CB even without 'line of sight'.

Group riding, mainly with 'line of sight' and only 2-3 miles max range... even with duck-tail areal, SHOUKD work OK, and be perfectly legal.

Its JUST expensive and a tad more cumbersome.

Think youd make more problems than you solved trying to adapt a car mount rig, TBH, and to make it work probably not save any money, on the job.

Car mount rigs start at about £50, but then you need to add an areal, and cabling, and you are looking at £75-£100 realistically BEFORE you adapt it for bike use.... so no great savings.

PMR.... top end, £90+ hand-sets, plus head-sets. same KIND of legue for limited performance, but more user-freindly and more compact.

Mod, they are illegal.... risks up to you...... cost of modding? Well depends on teh hand-set, WHETHER it can be modded, how you mod it, and who mods it......

Do one 'properly' go uprated transistors to get full 4w power, and matched antenea for the frequency to get the most out of it, you MIGHT easily double the original hand-set price...... IF you can even do it, or know some-one who can do it for you!
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multijoy
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PostPosted: 09:01 - 08 Jul 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
OFCOM enforce radio licensing, rather than the police. I doubt very much your standard copper would even be aware that there are laws governing radio transmission.

OFCOM'll do you if you're persistently blocking broadcast/avaiation/other dedicated frequencies, or if you're jamming the CB spectrum with some sort of insane spark-gap transmitter. Other than that, it's simply a case of 'don't be a dick' and you'll get away with it.

If you've simply got an overpowered transmitter, it's very unlikely that you'll get a tug, especially if you use it mobile.

However, the issue with using PMR channels requiring an operator licence is that these cost money, and people are paying for the right to use them. If you're blocking up someone's taxi channel with 'yeh blud, innit.' then, if persistent, someone will investigate. I'm not sure what the fines are, mind.


CB & high-power PMR is great, but if all you want to do is chat with the mate you're riding with, any one of the maplin specials will be fine.

The difficulty is at the user end, and that's where you're paying the money- the noise cancelling microphones, channel priority, decent sounding output- this is the pricey bit.

I've got a pair of the scala g4 helmet to use with the missus. Not cheap, but they work well- bluetooth intercom with about ~500m range. It's not a fantastic range, but when it drops out you simply use the mobile phone- voice control is great, the iPhone is fantastic with it (the missus can do all sorts with the ipod part of it) and we're intelligible to around the tonne. Might work better with a quieter helmet!

With this sort of thing, you get what you pay for. The £50 kits with ptt are limited, but will probably do the job for mooching around town. CB & PMR you'd need to use on top of an autocom/starcom unit, I reckon.
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Nai
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PostPosted: 11:01 - 08 Jul 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Digitalize wrote:
Bluetooth range is generally about 10 meters.... Its a restriction of the format AFAIK.


A quick random observation oddly timed. Just sent a file to my phone from my PC via blue tooth. I thought my phone was next to me but as it happens it was just over 110 feet away at the other end of the warehouse. Blue tooth can deffo work over 10 metres.
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GeneralXcepti...
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PostPosted: 15:02 - 08 Jul 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
The Scala Rider G4 system that I use is Bluetooth based and has a range of up to 1 mile.

However, that's if the land is flat and there's nothing between each of the riders - in practice a good few hundred feet in built up areas is about the max that you'd get but certainly more than 10 metres Smile
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Skudd
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PostPosted: 15:02 - 08 Jul 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
What you need is an autocom, and a couple of Kenwood Protalks. Does me and my mates fine for day to day ride outs as well as touring around Scotland. To buy new budget £350 for each rider, second hand, anything from £100-250. You will all be on the same channel, just need to learn how to talk on a radio.
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radical
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PostPosted: 15:18 - 08 Jul 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Found this one on Ebay, it has a 500 metre range and is bluetooth and is priced @47.00 plus 7.00 p/p.

try 270 563 089 926 on Ebay.
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Alexio
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PostPosted: 15:31 - 08 Jul 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
GeneralXception wrote:
The Scala Rider G4 system that I use is Bluetooth based and has a range of up to 1 mile.

However, that's if the land is flat and there's nothing between each of the riders - in practice a good few hundred feet in built up areas is about the max that you'd get but certainly more than 10 metres Smile


As far as I know, when using blue-tooth to share data from computer to computer, a class 1 type of transmitter and receiver is rated at 100m.

However, there's nothing stopping a company from making such a headset which uses blue-tooth but amplifies the signal enough to go a couple of miles.

In the future I reckon it'll be possible to use a smart phone instead, once 3G coverage is everywhere and reliable enough. Imagine just making a Skype call from your iPhone or a Skype conference call between bikes. That would sure simply things as the phone and mobile infrastructure are then taking care of the hardest bits (until you all hit a reception blackspot and can't talk for half a minute). On the plus side, you could all be miles apart from each other and having a good natter.
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Stevie GooGs
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PostPosted: 15:37 - 08 Jul 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
A cheaper option than scala rider:

https://www.ultimate-travelgear.co.uk/motorcycle-accessories/navrider___130.htm

https://www.visordown.com/product-news/navrider-headset-road-tested/8847.html
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radical
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PostPosted: 15:46 - 08 Jul 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Bluetooth antennas and amplifiers are available with a range up to 3 kilometres and can be bought quite cheaply but I dont know if they would be any good for the bike to bike application.
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Digitalize
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PostPosted: 16:21 - 08 Jul 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hmm, that bluetooth one does seem quite good, but as said needs to work with about 6-8 people, which im unsure if the bluetooth one would work. Not keen on the small range either.

So CB Radio im looking about £100 for a handheld with headset?

Similar setup for PMR would be around £50 then?

I Could wire mine into the bike, but i know not all the people i ride with could, but as long as the batteries around 4 Hours should be fine.
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radical
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PostPosted: 16:37 - 08 Jul 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
A c.b radio would work fine and last a long time if the power output was set to the lowest setting. I use a set of VOX operated rechargeable units that I bought out of Lidls for 30 pounds and fitted a cheap computer headset c/w with mike ,they work fine up to about half a mile or a bit more if there are no obstructions.
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Teflon-Mike
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PostPosted: 16:42 - 08 Jul 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
KNIGHT CB
worth checking out. Helpful bunch and got lots of kit. Theres also Thunderpole and a few others if you ggogle them.
https://www.kcb.co.uk/shop2/contents/media/hm200.jpg
Thats the 'default' headset, they do a boom mike and button mike variant for open/full face lids. £19.95
https://www.kcb.co.uk/shop2/contents/media/ah27_000.jpg
Maycom CB Hand-Held. £89.50
Alternatively, same head-set; and PMR. Plenty of chocce from a pair of Cobra 'Semi-Pro' units for about £70 (pair) up to full pro, Alen handsets at £150 each.
Talking to the snowtigeress about it last night, she reckons on the Maycom CB's for us. She likes the idea of the greater range, and less 'traffic' on the channels, after having a play with CB out green-laningin the Rangie. And having used PMR on bikes before.
Her 'femanine' precis of the idea... "So the CB's cost as much as a PMR, dont need messing with, and work better?"
You cant argue with a woman really, can you?!
Idea of modded PMR's was becouse of 'compatability'.
Having PMR means you can talk to any-one with another PMR.
Having a hi-po one means you can talk to people a long way away from you.... downside is unless they have hi-po PMR too.... you wont be able to hear thier reply!
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My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?'
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daesimps
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PostPosted: 17:17 - 08 Jul 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
I use the Puxing 777 radios which you can pick up from ebay for about £35 each. Some of the guys on the other forums swear by them as a cheaper Kenwood alternative.

They work on all the UK frequencies and can be programmed for either the legal 1/2 watt power or up to 4 watts. The rubber ducky aerial can also be removed - there's a guy on biker's oracle who does a really good number plate mounted aerial kit.

They'll take the Kenwood accessories, and as such I use them with my Autocom using a standard Kenwood-Autocom lead.

They ship from Hong Kong as the removable aerial and programmable power makes them not entirely legal in the UK. I dare say that if you left the internal aerial in place and kept the power down nobody would ever know.
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Digitalize
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PostPosted: 18:01 - 08 Jul 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
https://cgi.ebay.co.uk/5x-Puxing-PX-777-VHF-136-174Mhz-car-cable-Ear-PX777-/200493311644?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_ConsumerElectronics_SpecialistRadioEquipment_SM&hash=item2eae55269c

Would these ones do? Give a good mile or 2 radius when put in a jacket? Wondering on the law thing, guess if i tuned the power down a bit, would probably be ok, other thing i have seen is a business license, but i'd need a business to do that right?
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salty21
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PostPosted: 22:35 - 08 Jul 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
i may be missing something here but is there any reason why these cant be used?

https://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BINATONE-ACTION-950-TWIN-PMR-10KM-WALKIE-TALKIE-RADIO-/200493384879?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_ConsumerElectronics_SpecialistRadioEquipment_SM&hash=item2eae5644af

with this as a headset
https://cgi.ebay.co.uk/PLANTRONICS-M120-Headset-Handsfree-2-5-3-5mm-Jack-/360242452767?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_Mobiles_Accessories_RL&hash=item53e01f991f

they have voice activation and a 10 km range along with a 3.5mm headset connection. you can kit out 2 bikes for £40 or £20 each if your sharing. I have no idea on the technical side of radio's and stuff so i mighnt be missing the obvious here.
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iooi
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PostPosted: 06:29 - 09 Jul 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
salty21 wrote:
they have voice activation and a 10 km range along with a 3.5mm headset connection. you can kit out 2 bikes for £40 or £20 each if your sharing. I have no idea on the technical side of radio's and stuff so i mighnt be missing the obvious here.


Tanke any range figures with a large dose of salt.....

I once used a CB radio. Managed one night to talk to someone from the top of sutton bank (thirsk) to Ilkley. thats 30+ miles. Also on the same kit I could not talk to a fried less than 2 miles away due to hills.

So range is very dependent on what is between you and them.....
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waffles
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PostPosted: 09:24 - 09 Jul 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Myself and the other half have a set of Starcom BT GO's, clip to the outside of your helmet, bluetooth, range of about 100m when moving over flat open land and goes down to about 60m through hilly hedge-lined roads.

Quality is good but at high speeds you need to talk slowly or repeat yourself. Oh, and you can sync your phone and ipod if they have bluetooth.
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