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Kris
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PostPosted: 09:15 - 20 Jul 2010    Post subject: What's the best used bike to own... Reply with quote

..if you are limited to just one bike for all your biking needs?

Criteria:

[edit] Looking to replace a Bandit600 with something a tad sportier..

16000 miles per year commuting (All types of road)
4000 miles per year back lane blasts with mates
1 or 2 trackdays per year
Min. 150 mile tank range
Reliability
Good headlights
Good parts availability
Price ceiling £2800

Question Question Question

I was thinking circa 2000 CBR600 but I'm not sure I could do it to myself.... Sick Wink Wink

Thoughts?
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DrDonnyBrago
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PostPosted: 09:24 - 20 Jul 2010    Post subject: Re: What's the best used bike to own... Reply with quote

Kris wrote:
..if you are limited to just one bike for all your biking needs?

Criteria:

16000 miles per year commuting (All types of road)
4000 miles per year back lane blasts with mates
1 or 2 trackdays per year
Min. 150 mile tank range
Reliability
Good headlights
Good parts availability
Price ceiling £2800

Question Question Question

I was thinking circa 2000 CBR600 but I'm not sure I could do it to myself.... Sick Wink Wink

Thoughts?


CBR 600 F1-3 or FS1-2.

That's a lot of mileage, there are numerous examples of CBR600 with 6 figure mileages and still running strong. I'd want something a bit sporty but not so much that it gives you back ache on your commute. I like my CBR, does everything I want it to do and it does it well.

Is this just a hypothetical situation though?
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Kris
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PostPosted: 09:44 - 20 Jul 2010    Post subject: Re: What's the best used bike to own... Reply with quote

DonnyBrago wrote:

Is this just a hypothetical situation though?


Nope, looking to replace my Bandit in the near future.

Year before last was ace, as I had a Sunday special bike in the garage which I could keep for hoonage. Alas, those days are long gone and I'm finding it hard to justify a second bike...
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Alex A
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PostPosted: 10:08 - 20 Jul 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

VFR750 or VFR800Fi
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Teflon-Mike
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PostPosted: 10:08 - 20 Jul 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you have a garage and a decent multi-bike policy, and pick your bikes 'right', the ecconomics of two bikes can actually justify themselves very easily..... So what aspects of multi-biking is giving you grief? Space? Nearest-Dearest-Ear-ache?

I mean, CBR6 is the defacto do-all motorcycle. The original jack-of-all-trades.

But, something like an ER5, boring as it be, is a useful commuter, cheaper to tax, insure and fuel, and up to the odd longer haul for a weekend away or whatever.

Then stick a full power Mito in the garage; £15 a year tax, possible 'free' insurance on the bigger bike policy, as its smaller capacity and hopefully lower value, light use only when you want to go hoon or do a track day, shouldn't cost an arm and a leg to maintain.

Plenty of perms you can run on the idea.

Substitute a Dulsville for the ER5, or an old shaftie, GS850 or GT750, maybe a Pan, or a BMW boxer. anything goes really.

Substitute an old Yam RD-LC or valve, a Kwak KR1, Zook RGV, or Prillia RS250, or a sport 400.

OR even flip it about; and go for something like a Suzuki TL1000 as the hooner, and maybe something daft like a motard for the commuter.

Possibilities are endless, really, but the 'one-bike does all' is a hard remit to meet, and cramming so many compromises into one bike makes for a lot of compromise all in one place.

If you HAVE to though, then the starting point for the Jack-of-all-Trades has to be the CBR6F or the venerable old VFR. Maybe a Hornet?
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evoboy
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PostPosted: 10:19 - 20 Jul 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Earlier ZX6r?

Mine used to be able to get 140ish miles to a tank ( before i stuck MX bars on it).

I find that the headlights are very good.

Copes trackdays no problem.

Mines done over 50k miles now and not had any problems with the engine, bar one of the coils failing. ( I purchased it with 29k on it 2 years ago)

Parts are no problem.

Can be had for sub £2k easily.

Altho this is only my personal experience, it would depend what kind of bike your looking at? More like the Bandit, just sportier? Or more Sportsbike style?
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hmmmnz
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PostPosted: 10:22 - 20 Jul 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

bandit 12 Mr. Green

ktm superduke
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 10:25 - 20 Jul 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

Think the CBR might be a good choice, but also maybe a ZX6R or even a ZX9R (ie, sporty but not extreme).

Or not much different to what you have now, how about a 1200 Bandit?

All the best

Keith
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Kris
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PostPosted: 10:55 - 20 Jul 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alex A wrote:
VFR750 or VFR800Fi


Never ridden either although heard the Vtecs drink fuel and are expensive to service every 24000 miles... ?? Any truth?

hmmmz wrote:
bandit 12 / ktm superduke


Bandit 12 only has 130 mile range. KTM too unsuitable for distance.

Want something a bit sportier than a B12 anyhow.

evoboy wrote:
Earlier ZX6r?


Hmm, could do. Have owned a '00 ZX9r before. Was comfy enough and quite sporty too...

Teflon Mike wrote:
Lots and Lots


Definately don't want the extra costs associated with 2 x the tax, 2 x the insurance, 2x the MOTs etc etc.

Looking for a balance but sporty end of the scale. (Does it even exist?)

Kickstart wrote:
Think the CBR might be a good choice, but also maybe a ZX6R or even a ZX9R (ie, sporty but not extreme).

Or not much different to what you have now, how about a 1200 Bandit?


Bandit - see above.

Others, only no-no would be the 9r. Insurance / tax too high methinks.
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hmmmnz
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PostPosted: 10:59 - 20 Jul 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

hornet 900
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 11:08 - 20 Jul 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kris wrote:
Bandit 12 only has 130 mile range. KTM too unsuitable for distance.


I get ~45mpg from mine, which gives mid 140s before reserve and another 40 miles or so on reserve (most I have ever trusted it to was 186 miles).

All the best

Keith
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Kris
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PostPosted: 11:12 - 20 Jul 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kickstart wrote:

I get ~45mpg from mine, which gives mid 140s before reserve and another 40 miles or so on reserve (most I have ever trusted it to was 186 miles).


Really? What sort of run is that though? I do 70 miles a day which is 50 mins of 90mph M-way / A road cruising and then another 50 mins of town work through London.

(Reason tank range is important is because I want to fill up every other day - Lazy sod see Razz )
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Alex A
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PostPosted: 11:13 - 20 Jul 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kris wrote:
Alex A wrote:
VFR750 or VFR800Fi


Never ridden either although heard the Vtecs drink fuel and are expensive to service every 24000 miles... ?? Any truth?


The VFR800Fi model is the pre-VTEC version. I reckon the pick of the bunch are the last of the '750 (1994+) and any of the pre-VTEC 800s (pre 2002?). The VTEC is very expensive to service every 16000 miles (£600 odd IIRC).
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 11:26 - 20 Jul 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kris wrote:
Really? What sort of run is that though? I do 70 miles a day which is 50 mins of 90mph M-way / A road cruising and then another 50 mins of town work through London.


Normal general riding. Never really noticed any difference on fuel consumption except riding 2 up into a head wind at about 95 (which hammered it). It did use about 10% more when running a one tooth smaller front sprocket.

As an aside when first tuned but with the carb jetting just guessed it managed 60mpg!

Kris wrote:
(Reason tank range is important is because I want to fill up every other day - Lazy sod see Razz )


Totally agree with your reasoning. My commute (once a week) is 95 miles each way, and the ZZR600 will just about do a return trip on a tank full. Where I used to work was only a 54 mile round trip, but the Bimota wouldn't do that twice without refilling which was a pain.

By the way, suspect a CBR600 might struggle on the fuel range. It is one of those things Honda don't care about much.

All the best

Keith
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Pie-Roe
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PostPosted: 11:29 - 20 Jul 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Best bike I owned that ticked all your boxes was an rf600, but they are all old and fucked now.

Could you get a zr750 for that money?

Pyro
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Irezumi aka Reuben
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PostPosted: 11:30 - 20 Jul 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have a go on a VFR (and a CBR) before you buy one. The most boring bikes I've ever ridden bar none.

Very capable and good, although the VFR is cumbersome around town. But for the love of all the kittens in the world they bore the shit out of me. I'd rather walk than ride another VFR.
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Kris
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PostPosted: 11:32 - 20 Jul 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

pyroforlife wrote:
Best bike I owned that ticked all your boxes was an rf600, but they are all old and fucked now.

Could you get a zr750 for that money?

Pyro


Laughing I love those spaceships but alas, you are correct. They are all tatty-as-feck nowadays.

You mean a Z750? If so they are possibly the worst bike I've ever ridden and the finish is shizer! Sad
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Teflon-Mike
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PostPosted: 11:35 - 20 Jul 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kris wrote:
Teflon Mike wrote:
Lots and Lots


Definately don't want the extra costs associated with 2 x the tax, 2 x the insurance, 2x the MOTs etc etc.


Thats looking at the problem through blinkers. Its not the individual overheads that count, but the entire cost of ownership, and the cost of running the things.

An MOT is £30. Tax up to 150cc = £15, 150-400cc = £33, 400-600cc = £50, over 600 = £70.

So, CBR600 = £33 tax + £30 MOT, plus 16,000 miles = how much fuel and how many oil changes? How many new tyres and brake pads, chains sprokets and other running costs?

As a rough reckoner? in 1600 miles you'll spend £1500 on petrol alone. Probably £500 on oil & filters. How many pairs of tyres, one, two, more like four, at what £200 a pair? £800.

Cost of running CBR for those kind of miles, you are talking what, £3-4K a year, all up, even if you skimp a bit here and there.

Second bike, under 600cc, adds £30 MOT, £33 tax, and second bike insurance, possibly nothing, or just an admin charge. But even if you had to take a secon policy for it, restricted miles, no commuting clause, need NOT add significant money to the entire annual biking costs.

Picking more mundane, high-mile bike as the main work-horse, given you have the honnie tool in the garage, you stand to save on the fuel and tyres if nothing else, so OVERALL, you may actually SAVE money, AND have more fun.

But, it was ONLY a suggestion. Up to you do do the sums and work out what works out best for you.

But the overhead costs is a non-argument. Its the overall costs that count, at the end of the year!
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Kris
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PostPosted: 11:58 - 20 Jul 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bandit 1 years commuting:

16000 miles = approx £1920 on fuel at present. £1920
2 x front tyres, 3 x rears. £560
Basic service every 6k = £60 £160
Valve check every 12k = £30 £40
Pads approx 10k = £35 £56
Insurance = £110
Tax = £48
MOT = £30

= £2924

[edit] Very happy - just seen that a train season ticket is £3808 (only a 2 hour journey each way.. Shocked ) or £3096 for a 2.5 hour journey each way...

My bike takes me 50 mins. Very Happy
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Last edited by Kris on 12:06 - 20 Jul 2010; edited 1 time in total
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G
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PostPosted: 11:59 - 20 Jul 2010    Post subject: Re: What's the best used bike to own... Reply with quote

With that budget, also consider an early GSXR1000 - like a ZX9, but more so in most ways. (Or a GSXR750 Razz )

Two bikes do also offer the advantage that you can have one off the road for a while and not worry too much if maintenance/repairs take longer than expected.

I don't like big bikes for 'fun' road riding, but for everything else, very happy my GSXR.
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DrDonnyBrago
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PostPosted: 12:20 - 20 Jul 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kickstart wrote:
By the way, suspect a CBR600 might struggle on the fuel range. It is one of those things Honda don't care about much.


Fuel economy is a bit bad on mine I must admit, but then it is just a weekend toy atm. I did a quiet motorway and side roads run the other day and had 145 miles before I filled up. I normally fill it up each time I take it out though so I'm not sure what a full tank is capable of.
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Teflon-Mike
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PostPosted: 12:36 - 20 Jul 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kris wrote:
Bandit 1 years commuting:= £2924
My bike takes me 50 mins. Very Happy

Laughing I wasn't far wide of the mark then!?
OK, so look at the figures again, and see how much you could save running something like a CB500 or ER5 as the commuter hack, taking the 'chore' miles. Running hard rubber for added miles, and pushed a few added miles when they start going 'off' as you aren't exploring the envelope on them.
Fuel costs should come down, what, 25% or more? With more savings on the maintenence.
Would the journey take much longer on such a machine? Would it be any more or less comfortable? Would it be any 'discrace' tp be parking such a bike in teh works lot?
would the savings be 'worth it', and how much would that leave to get something much more fun, to run as a hooning tool?
Tale 25% of the fuel bill, that's best part of £500 towards the T&T & Ins on the 'toy', innit?
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gmanxiii
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PostPosted: 12:40 - 20 Jul 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

DonnyBrago wrote:
Kickstart wrote:
By the way, suspect a CBR600 might struggle on the fuel range. It is one of those things Honda don't care about much.


Fuel economy is a bit bad on mine I must admit, but then it is just a weekend toy atm. I did a quiet motorway and side roads run the other day and had 145 miles before I filled up. I normally fill it up each time I take it out though so I'm not sure what a full tank is capable of.


Ive never had a problem with the fuel range on my CBR, in fact for a while i actually thought my fuel light had gone when i first got it as i was getting to around 150miles out of a tank and it wasnt coming on. With very spirited riding I get about 130 before the light comes on, Trackday I got about 110, conservatively I've had it upto 180... It is the carbed alu frame model rather than the later FI if that makes a difference.
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DrDonnyBrago
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PostPosted: 13:07 - 20 Jul 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gmanxiii wrote:

Ive never had a problem with the fuel range on my CBR, in fact for a while i actually thought my fuel light had gone when i first got it as i was getting to around 150miles out of a tank and it wasnt coming on. With very spirited riding I get about 130 before the light comes on, Trackday I got about 110, conservatively I've had it upto 180... It is the carbed alu frame model rather than the later FI if that makes a difference.


Carb'd one is slightly better on the economy Thumbs Up .
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evoboy
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PostPosted: 13:18 - 20 Jul 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fuel range on my zx6r '00 model was 170+ miles to a tank on motorways cruising at 85mph-ish, without hitting reserve.

In town and hooning around, it does around 130-140miles to a tank.
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