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Upcoming C4 programme - Our War on Drugs

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D O G
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PostPosted: 10:37 - 27 Jul 2010    Post subject: Upcoming C4 programme - Our War on Drugs Reply with quote
Starts 2nd August - looks as if it is going to argue the side for decriminalisation of drugs, which can only be a good thing.

That's it really - thought there may be other interested parties on here....

Firts programme info.
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pinkyfloyd
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PostPosted: 10:43 - 27 Jul 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
dont you just hate people that take drugs?...... the police, customs.... etc
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killa
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PostPosted: 10:55 - 27 Jul 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Looks interesting, I’ve just started reading high society after being told it’s a good read.
As a drug user myself I think about this quite a bit. I don’t use class A drugs really, just smoke weed. IMO im not so sure it’s a good thing.
I think of the fact that currently (as stated in that link and in other articles I’ve read) next to none of the laws are introduced due to scientific evidence. Which leads me to believe that the police argue the toss over the drug law on the basis of how the drugs trade works for both themselves and the suppliers.
I can’t comprehend in my mind how it would affect the small time dealers across the UK and whether or not it would have a positive impact on society, you can make a small fortune from supplying drugs and this has a knock on effect on the social classes.
There is then the subject of casual drug users and addicts, I would like to see a document explaining how all this would benefit the two if at all.
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oldpink
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PostPosted: 11:08 - 27 Jul 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
most police don't want to arrest people for drugs
they only do it because they have to, I know several coppers that Know I smoke
and they couldn't give a toss

I was recently approached by a production company working with the BBC
they wanted me to take part in there program about the effects of drugs on the mind
I'm still debating whether to take part in it or not
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Spit-Fire
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PostPosted: 11:24 - 27 Jul 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxpNpvCFgAI
"they don't want you to take your drugs, they want your to take there drugs"

Laughing Thumbs Up
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santa668
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PostPosted: 13:12 - 27 Jul 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Also, see California leading the way:

https://uk.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE66M1YH20100723

Quote:
Marijuana, Inc, the corporatization of cannabis.


Nick
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 13:38 - 27 Jul 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
killa wrote:
I think of the fact that currently (as stated in that link and in other articles I’ve read) next to none of the laws are introduced due to scientific evidence.


Depends what you mean by scientific. If you mean the classification of drugs that are illegal then there was some vague attempt, but now so badly corrupted it is like saying putting the letters into alphabet soup in alphabetical order means that the soup is in order.

If you mean about harm then again there is scientific evidence for harm from many drugs. But there is also evidence for the harm from legal drugs such as alcohol. Whether the level of harm is something to be worried about is another question (ie, most of us ride bikes which are hardly chosen for being the safest solution).

There is also the case for harm caused to other by particular drug users. Ie, petty crime from addicts and violence between dealers. Personally I would say most of that harm can be attributed to the drugs being illegal (and profitable / expensive) rather than the actual drugs.

Personal view, make most of them legal. I don't care too much if people use them, just would rather that they were honest about it and its effects (both negative and positive).

All the best

Keith
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killa
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PostPosted: 14:04 - 27 Jul 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kickstart wrote:
There is also the case for harm caused to other by particular drug users. Ie, petty crime from addicts and violence between dealers. Personally I would say most of that harm can be attributed to the drugs being illegal (and profitable / expensive) rather than the actual drugs.

Personal view, make most of them legal. I don't care too much if people use them, just would rather that they were honest about it and its effects (both negative and positive).


I think when I say scientific evidence I mean cases where a scientist group tells the government bodies that cannabis, for example, although harmful because it’s not chocolate milk, doesn’t equate to the sentences put down upon people.
I use chocolate milk because the general public believe that people become a bit rowdy on beer but on cannabis you’re more likely to kill your family.
Drug abuse is excessive smoking, drinking and taking of mind altering substances which can lead to bad things. Death of one’s self or of another, for example. I can only guess that within the less educated communities, if most drugs were legalised you wouldn’t see positive effects...the reaction to such a change would cause mayhem judging by the way the public treat stories about someone who was mentally unstable, who for some reason kills a person whilst under the influence.
For someone like me, it would be happy days, i could drive back to my place after seeing my friend for some green confident what i am doing is totally under my control and no one else’s business.
For someone who has created a franchise on the image of being a drug dealer/supplier, is something I’m unsure about.
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 14:14 - 27 Jul 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
killa wrote:
I think when I say scientific evidence I mean cases where a scientist group tells the government bodies that cannabis, for example, although harmful because it’s not chocolate milk, doesn’t equate to the sentences put down upon people.


Certainly agree with you there.

Pretty much everything is harmful (including chocolate milk Wink ), and the level of acceptable harm appears to me to be a personal choice. I am very dubious about any restriction on an adult taking or taking part in things where the negative effects really only affect them.

All the best

Keith
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GhostRider
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PostPosted: 14:15 - 27 Jul 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
santa668 wrote:
Also, see California leading the way:

https://uk.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE66M1YH20100723

Quote:
Marijuana, Inc, the corporatization of cannabis.


Nick


The actual proposition makes for interesting reading, particularly in the polls department: https://ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.php/California_Proposition_19,_the_Marijuana_Legalization_Initiative_%282010%29

I think legalization of most things in conjunction with truthful, honest education about their effects would be the most sensible path. The fact that it is illegal doesn't stop anyway that wants to do them, and I think if you take the curiosity factor out of the drug, then the chances of people wanting to try them probably wouldn't increase by much.

There was a great quote I read somewhere but I'm damned if I can remember it or find it now, but it was from some Harvard scientist who said something along the lines of

"I was told that marijuana was really bad, that it would have all these negative effects on me and that it should be avoided at all costs, then I tried it, and I found out that was all lies, and marijuana was great and I had a blast each time I tried it. But then I got to thinking, well, if they lied to me about this, I wonder what those other drugs are REALLY like..?"

Fact is, if you legalize cocaine, then you can be damn sure that the amount of cardiovascular problems will increase, but I guess the aim would be to discourage people from indulging in the first place, though if it was legalized, I'm sure some corporation with big money profits set in their sights would seek ways to encourage it's use.

I think overall, this kind of thing needs to be trialed in small sections, starting first with marijuana, then moving on to say magic mushrooms, MDMA, LSD and so forth and see how that pans out over a couple of years. Only then do I think you could have a firm idea of the expected repercussions of full legalization, since currently we only have speculation, which in the media is usually portrayed as "the second you legalize marijuana, EVERYBODY in the country will go and get high and go mental, and the apocalypse will arrive". I think that were marijuana to be legalized in Britain today, then it will be newsworthy for about 2 weeks, then everyone will carry on as normal, and no one will really know the difference. Shame we live in a culture of over sensationalising things, makes it very hard to do anything good without and outrage bus at the ready.

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smegballs
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PostPosted: 14:25 - 27 Jul 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
GhostRider wrote:
I think that were marijuana to be legalized in Britain today, then it will be newsworthy for about 2 weeks, then everyone will carry on as normal, and no one will really know the difference.



I think thats bang on the money there, most people if they want to smoke weed, smoke weed. There might be a few people who are scared of the legal repercussions but I'm sure most people just get on with it.
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pa_broon74
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PostPosted: 14:36 - 27 Jul 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
The drug laws like so many other laws and acts are in place due to social engineering and media hype.

Thats it.

On weed, the government think if they decriminalise it 50% of the country would become lethargic to the point of coma and the other 50% would email the Jeremy Vine show about it.

Its the same with the laws connected to marriage and the extra rights it affords participants. They're only there because they believe a family unit is secure and keeps people wokring and generally in line.

Legalise the lot of it but make people personally responsible for their actions, work a premium into the price of it to reflect the cost of the risk the person takes if he or she decides to stick it up their nose.

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Spit-Fire
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PostPosted: 15:13 - 27 Jul 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
in country's where it is legal,
has it had an effect on the health service, crime, economy etc etc?
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pa_broon74
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PostPosted: 15:18 - 27 Jul 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Spit-Fire wrote:
in country's where it is legal,
has it had an effect on the health service, crime, economy etc etc?


Portugal is the oft told example of where its worked very well, if you scratch below the surface of the newspaper spin, a different story emerges though.

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killa
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PostPosted: 15:48 - 27 Jul 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
pa_broon74 wrote:
Legalise the lot of it but make people personally responsible for their actions, work a premium into the price of it to reflect the cost of the risk the person takes if he or she decides to stick it up their nose.


Cocaine is for the rich, crap cocaine isn’t even worth mentioning but if you’re a celebrity or just generally well off, there’s a high chance that you’ve dabbled. The risk with decent coke is higher than cannabis and E but only if you get greedy.
I would hope it didn’t go this way but all i can imagine is that poorer people get the shit end of the stick if it all went legal and all the well off drug users are accepted and can feel smug because they can enjoy the new era, while the rest of us have to resort to getting hold of cheap and cheerful alternatives.

I’ve never quite got my head around Heroin addicts, I mean I learnt a lot about drugs from the library when I was at school. Once I had weighed up all the pro’s and cons through discussions with my mates, there were several drugs out there that were totally ignored. Others like E and cannabis I enjoyed in large quantities, it’s reasonably cheap and can be enjoyed in a group or just on your tod.
I think if truth be told, what people say about gateway drugs doesn’t mean cannabis leads to living in a cardboard box, jacking up on the street. What it means is personally is that you build up a tolerance and a curiosity for other substances and unfortunately Heroin is fucking great.
It’s not going to make you feel queezy and go all like ‘ooh, is it...uumm...am i...I’m I high yet?’ it’s more like fuck the shitmunchers waiting in line YOU ARE HERE! And you are well and truly spangled. Don’t try heroin.

Kickstart wrote:
killa wrote:
I think when I say scientific evidence I mean cases where a scientist group tells the government bodies that cannabis, for example, although harmful because it’s not chocolate milk, doesn’t equate to the sentences put down upon people.


Certainly agree with you there.

Pretty much everything is harmful (including chocolate milk Wink ), and the level of acceptable harm appears to me to be a personal choice. I am very dubious about any restriction on an adult taking or taking part in things where the negative effects really only affect them.


Yeah defiantly, but i feel that the real negative effects will be the segregation even further of classes if it all goes legal.
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pa_broon74
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PostPosted: 15:59 - 27 Jul 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
I wouldn't just legalise it, I'd want to set standards too, do some sort of quality control.

Imagine the Trading standards people dodging around high as kites. After an investigation in the report they could just type; it was good shit man!

I digress, it would never work without some form of control, I'd also want to think about a minimum age too. People are stupid, if it was all of a sudden ok'd over night; there'd be carnage.

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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 16:00 - 27 Jul 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
killa wrote:
Yeah defiantly, but i feel that the real negative effects will be the segregation even further of classes if it all goes legal.


Not sure I am barking up the right tree here, but if I am I think the same segregation already applies to alcohol. How many people can afford to drink (say) good vintage champagne (OK, of those who want to)?

Suspect with many things costs would drop dramatically. Far cheaper to ship in a container and distribute by open means than to ship small quantities by hidden means.

My concerns would be more with those substances that are highly additive, but to be honest I regard that more as a problem caused by years of dubious drug info (ie, your point raised earlier about finding marijuana to be nothing like you had been told, and hence having a large distrust of what else you had been told). Short term quite possibly would cause issues with increased use but tend to think that this is a necessary stage in moving to a more trusting legal framework.

All the best

Keith
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D O G
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PostPosted: 16:25 - 27 Jul 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
GhostRider wrote:
[I think legalization of most things in conjunction with truthful, honest education about their effects would be the most sensible path. The fact that it is illegal doesn't stop anyway that wants to do them, and I think if you take the curiosity factor out of the drug, then the chances of people wanting to try them probably wouldn't increase by much.


100% correct.

Plus you would get a shitload of tax revenue.
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smegballs
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PostPosted: 16:38 - 27 Jul 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
pa_broon74 wrote:
I wouldn't just legalise it, I'd want to set standards too, do some sort of quality control.

Imagine the Trading standards people dodging around high as kites. After an investigation in the report they could just type; it was good shit man!

I digress, it would never work without some form of control, I'd also want to think about a minimum age too. People are stupid, if it was all of a sudden ok'd over night; there'd be carnage.

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Of course, not many people want to see drugs legal for everyone kids and all.

Almost all pro-drug people are advocates of a system of quality control and regulation, as opposed to a free for all.

Quality control would be easy if say MDMA pills were being made by a big pharma corp. Glaxo can make all sorts of shizzle to a good standard so there is no reason why they couldn't churn out drugs of a consistent high quality.

Regulation could just go on a 18+ as is alcohol, I believe a few studies have shown its easier for US kids (and most likely over here too) to score weed than booze as booze implies going into a store which needs ID. The illegal pot however can be bought by anyone with the cash - including minors.
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chris-red
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PostPosted: 16:55 - 27 Jul 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Say drugs are legalized what will happen then, You have millions of crims out of work, what will all the drug dealers do?
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smegballs
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PostPosted: 17:02 - 27 Jul 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
chris-red wrote:
Say drugs are legalized what will happen then, You have millions of crims out of work, what will all the drug dealers do?


Jobseekers? Laughing

One of the biggest reasons to legalise drugs would be to take a major income source out of the pockets of organised crime. Just that is reason enough to legalise drugs.

As it is, drug dealers like the fact that drugs are illegal as it gives them unregulated control of a market. As our lovely media portrays drug dealers as the very worst of society surely keeping the status quo, is in fact doing them a favour?
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pa_broon74
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PostPosted: 17:06 - 27 Jul 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
chris-red wrote:
Say drugs are legalized what will happen then, You have millions of crims out of work, what will all the drug dealers do?


Carry on claiming benefits?

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Ste
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PostPosted: 17:08 - 27 Jul 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
chris-red wrote:
Say drugs are legalized what will happen then, You have millions of crims out of work, what will all the drug dealers do?

Police and prison resources wouldn't be being wasted on prohibition. Drug addicts would be able to get their fix from the NHS rather than having to steal to fund their habit, recreational users would no longer be of any interest to the police, the illegal drug production industry would suddenly have lost all it's customers so would be put of business.

So there would be big savings and there would be tax revenue from the drugs market. The police would be able to put more time and money into catching those out of work criminals.

Everyone wins, apart from criminals.
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