Had a bike for 2 days and...

[Hectristic]

I've already had a claim against me.

Some back story:

I bought a CG125 a couple of weeks ago to kick me into doing my CBT. I did that on Sunday, insured the bike on the Monday and on the Tuesday I got the coach up to Leicester and rode it down to London. It was about 120 miles or so and by the end of it I felt amazing, I had a great sense of accomplishment and a bit of bewilderment at what I'd just done.

Yesterday (Wednesday), I drove from South London to North Tawton in Devon. Due to my shite sense of direction I got lost just out of London and ended up travelling around the Redhill area for about an hour and a half. Tiredness set in. Oh dear.

I was on the left hand side of the right hand lane for some reason. I pulled into the centre of the lane. A woman in a Fiat 500 decided to overtake me and I only saw her as I went into the side of her, scraping all along the side of her car leaving a scratch from the front to the back across both doors.

We stopped, exchanged details and all that. I offered to pay for the damage outside of the insurance companies. Got a phonecall today from Fiat Insurance saying they'd been asked to act on her behalf.

I was a bit of a silly bugger I'll admit. What should I do? From what I can see she shouldn't have overtaken in my lane, but I should've done a lifesaver too.

Advice? Condolences? Sighs of despair at the new guy?

Could've been worse though. On the A23 yesterday I drove past a guy that had come off his ninja(I think), and it looked totalled, he was lying on the pavement with some of his mates that he'd been riding with. Bit of a stark reminder to watch out, one I failed to heed.

[weegieblue]

The damage to the third party vehicle indicates an error on your part - you should have been in the centre of one of the lanes and if you had been, there would have been no incident.

Unfortunately this will go against you.

Bet you NEVER forget to look over your shoulder again!
____________________
_______________
Suzuiki EN 125-2a - July 2010 to August 2010
Suzuki SV650s, 1999 model - August 2010 - now

[Ingah]

50/50 i reckon (if you were indeed still within the boundaries of your lane). She indeed should not be trying to overtake a vehicle that is already in a lane, but you also should be aware of what's going on around you, including within your own lane.

However, she'll probably lie. Maybe you should wait and see, and if she does, lie yourself. I mean why not, if she can't even be honest, why should you? (sorry for the cynical touch, but i've heard how these stories play out too often now, and it always seems to be us bikers that get screwed, whether or not it's actually our fault).
____________________
-- Ingah

[Glenben92]

if you could have had proof of exactly what happened, it's her fault 100%, you were in lane and she tried to overtake IN THE SAME LANE. That is by no means your fault legally. Unfortunately, she will probably lie and say that you pulled out from the left hand lane without looking. You'll get screwed for this, the question is how badly. 50/50 or straight up your "fault".

Shit like this really pisses me off. Who the fuck does she think she is! She should be sent to retake her test and understand the basic principle of lane occupation and overtaking. Dumb Bitch.
____________________
57 Huoniao HN125-8 - , 97 Kawasaki GPZ500S -
99 Yamaha FZS 600 -
Mod 2 Passed - 01/10/2010

[Frost]

So she overtook you and scraped up the side of you?

I know you said you moved to the right a bit to get into the center of the lane, but you have full right to be there and if she overtook you so close that you moving to the center of the lane resulted in a collision i would say she was waaaay too fucking close. I was taught to drive leaving enough room between myself and a cyclist that if he fell sideways, i wouldn't run over his head. I was taught to pass parked cars at over a doors width distance.

Overtaking is a maneuverer and requires you to leave sufficient space and ensure it is safe to do so. In any normal situation i would say those overtaking are liable for the blame int he even of an accident. If you had swapped lanes in front of her, that would be an unsafe lane change and your fault. If you didn't leave your lane and she hit you trying to overtake do NOT admit liability. Consult some legal advice rather than start your time on the roads by thinking you did something wrong when you didn't and paying for it as a result.

[Ingah]

[Ingah]

[CptBlack]

In my opinion, if you are in a lane no one should overtake you in the same lane, therefore it's her fault for overtaking you. That's what I would argue.
What if you'd had to swerve because of a pothole, you would have gone into her then also. Similarly if a kid had dropped a ball into the road (if you're were in the left hand lane) The other driver wasn't overtaking you with due care and attention.

That said, lifesavers are taught for a reason, but you've learnt that lesson (hopefully the easy way)

Edit: As Teflon-Mike said below: You're L-plates are also there for a reason and the other driver should have considered that before attempting a maneuver on you

[Teflon-Mike]

Did you put ANYTHING apart from your basic details, like name, address, reg-no or insurers name on paper?

Right, then its her word vs yours.

And YOU dont remember WHAT you said at the scene, YOU are a NEW RIDER with two days riding experience and had JUST HAD AN ACCIDENT AND WERE IN SHOCK!

Photo-copy the letter from her insurance company. CONTACT YOURS. IMEDIETLY!

Ask them what to do.

Do you need a 'claim pack' and forms to fill in, or do they deal with it over the phone?

Your Story; you were riding along, you were clearly displaying L-Plates.

You were in teh outside lane of a duel carriageway.

You realised there was no traffic on teh inside of you, and went to pull over.

<this is the bit I'm not sure about YOU need to clarrify, and make EXPLICIT in the report, on teh phone or on the forms>

As you started to move over, you realised that the woman in te fiat was

< a> undertaking in the inside lane?, and her appearance 'paniced' you, as the wind off her car buffeted the bike by its proximity, so you wobbled and made contact with her car.

< b> tried over taking you BEFORE you had completed your manouver into the inside lane, her proximity panicing you, causing you to wobble as you felt the wind off her car, causing you to make contact with her vehicle.

(BOTH circumstances put blame in her court; she should have seen L-Plate and hung-back and given you room, and made allowances for your ADVERTISED inexperience. And in either instance she was clearly at fault either passing on the near-side OR over-taking when it was NOT clear to do so)

AS for suggesting you would pay for the damage off the record.

DO NOT MENTION IT.

Remember you were in shock. You had JUST had a near fatal accident (OK, hamming it up, but stick to it FFS!)

Concluding report; you stopped and exchanged details with the fiat driver. You CANNOT remember exactly what you said. (Shock, remember!) You THINK you said something like it was 'only a scratch' to her car, and no damage to your bike YOU would worry the insurance company about.

And LEAVE IT AT THAT.

Let the legal beagles in teh insurance companies fight it out between them.

THAT is what YOU pay them for.

Worst case, claim goes against you. You get slammed with a claim for teh full cost of repairs to her car.

BUT you wee prepared to pay them anyway, off the record.

She's taken it through the legals; so let her take the chances.

With enough 'spin' in your account of the events, you can imply that she was tail-gating you, intimidating you with her lane possition and then CRASHED INTO YOU, by her 'bullying' driving, trying to get past you on your low powered light weight motorcycle....

And best case is, the insurance co will dismiss it as HER fault.

Most likely is it will be deemed a 50/50, and you'll have half the costs against you. Bugger its recorded, they'll probably try and get back whatever the loss was three times over during the next five years, but hey, first bike, you dont have any NCB to loose, so its no great pain.

Occupational hazzaqrd. Chalk it up to experience.

JUST be glad you are still walking, my freind!

Bike accidents where the worst you have to worry about is the loading on your next insurance premium is a 'lucky' one!
____________________
My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?'

[pinkyfloyd]

if she overtook you in the same lane you were already in then she is at fault.

but the best you could probably do is what the above post says and come off with a 50/50 as it will end up with your word against hers.
____________________
illuminateTHEmind wrote: I am just more evolved than most of you guys... this allows me to pick of things quickly which would have normally taken the common man years to master
Hockeystorm65:.well there are childish arguments...there are very childish arguments.....there are really stupid childish arguments and now there are......Pinkfloyd arguments!
Teflon-Mike:I think I agree with just about all Pinky has said.

[c_dug]

I'm guessing offering to pay for the damage outside of the insurance will count as admitting liability which will probably count against you quite badly.

If they mention it if I was you I would try and play to the fact that it was only your second day riding, and that after the accident you panicked which is why you offered to pay for the damage without really thinking it through.

She was definitely in the wrong IMO, and also if I am in the outside lane I am nearly always on the left hand side of the lane, probably a foot or so off the white line, if somebody tried to go around the outside of me like that they would have more to worry about than some scratches on their car!

Glad you're ok anyway and hope it doesn't put you off riding or anything good luck with the claim
____________________
I am a bellend, I am a man of constant sorrow, I am a gummy bear, I am a rock.

[Glenben92]

I think it might be worth making the point that you made contact BECAUSE she was attempting an illegal maneouver. Had you been in the left lane and pulling into the right lane when the incident occurred, you would have performed a lifesaver prior to moving over. which would have avoided a collision. However, she was attempting to pass in a position that was so highly dangerous and down right irresponsible that even training instructors do not expect people to do it.

Basically what i'm saying here is make clear the fact that you didn't do a lifesaver and thus avoid the collision BECAUSE you were in the right hand lane in the first place.

This will be especially handy if she tries to lie and say you were pulling out from the left hand lane
____________________
57 Huoniao HN125-8 - , 97 Kawasaki GPZ500S -
99 Yamaha FZS 600 -
Mod 2 Passed - 01/10/2010

[defblade]

As many have said above - she's the one in the wrong here.

Proving it ~may~ be more difficult, although if she thinks she was in the right, she may already have given her version of events which will back you up.

Get legal advice asap - one of the specialist firms in the motorbike magazines will be the best bet. Inform your insurance, too and say from the outset you won't be accepting any liability.
____________________
Honda Varadero 125cc => Suzuki Bandit 650 33bhp => 77bhp =>
BMW K1200R Sport 163bhp => Aprilia Shiver GT 750 95bhp

[Hectristic]

[Alex A]

Cancel your insurance if it's within the cooling off period

And then deny it. And buy some new insurance.

Or accept it was your fault and get on with it...
____________________
Current: Ducati Panigale R / Ducati Streetfighter S / Suzuki GSX-R1000 L5

[Smithy500]

If you were in the outside lane, and did not venture into the inside lane at any point, regardless of your road positioning, its entirely 100% her fault. Just because your displaying L plates, it does not make the incident your fault. Your lack of awareness and perhaps experience may have played a factor in the crash, but it was her poor judgement and bad driving that was at fault. To the letter of the law, its her insurance company that should be the one forking out.
Don't admit liability to anything, particularly at the scene of the incident, to the other people involved. You were likely to be nervous after a coming together with you on the bike, that can mimic the feeling of a guilty concious, but it was not your fault.

However, as there are no witnesses, it maybe your word against hers, given that she has more road experience, and its a weird set of circumstances, her story of "he pulled out the inside lane into me" sounds more plausable. So you may have a hard time proving your case.

On the plus side, you are unhurt after something that could of been nasty, remember what happened and take it onboard.

[defblade]

[c_dug]

What he said! She's trying to claim off of your insurance for something that she did wrong.

If you do nothing/admit liability you will not get a years no claims and you will have a claim against you. Good luck with future insurance policies.

That is the worst that can happen no matter what so what have you got to loose by fighting it all the way? Nothing!
____________________
I am a bellend, I am a man of constant sorrow, I am a gummy bear, I am a rock.

[waffles]

Have you informed your insurance company yet? Make sure you tell them your story truthfully - that you were in the lane already and the woman in the Fiat tried to push past you.

And why is her insurance company contacting you? If you provided her with your details then she should have passed those on and the companies will talk to each other.

Glad to hear you weren't injured though. And you have learnt an important lesson about road position, car drivers and the importance of lifesavers
____________________
Theory test - 19/8/09, CBT - 11/10/09, MOD 1 - 16/8/10, MOD 2 - 27/10/10
Past rides Yamaha XT125X, Triumph TT600, Honda XR250
Current rides Suzuki GSXR 600, Honda MSX125

[Acemastr]

sounds like he's rolled over and given up bothering!

You still haven't told us if you were still in your lane, if someone tried to overtake me in my lane whilst i was in said lane... they wouldn't have a mirror/trim/window left because i'd be putting my foot through it all.

If indeed this is the case... FIGHT, she made a dangerous move that could have seen you knocked off and gone under her wheel... make the silly bint sweat
____________________
2017 KTM 350 XC-F - 2014 Yamaha R6 - 2005 Yamaha YZ125
2016 Toyota Tacoma Limited

[psychofox]

Hi Hectristic,

Sorry to hear about your accident, but it's not the end of the world. I used to work for the claims handlers and legal cover for Motorcycle Direct and I've seen a few claims like this. I can't remember any specific case laws for these circumstances, but you definitely have good a case.

Firstly, always tell your insurance company the truth. If it goes to court the solicitor well get the truth out of you and you will end up looking like an idiot and a liar. Make your case to them that you were in your own lane when a car tried to overtake you. As long as you maintain that you didn't change lanes, which is the truth, they'll have a hard time holding you at fault. The overtaking car has a duty of care to make sure that they can pass you safely in the space provided. As they tried to squeeze past you while you were both in the same lane, they did not observe this duty.

Damage to yours and her vehicle will make absolutely no difference to liability, as someone else suggested. I have previously dealt with thousands of claims and the only way that damage areas are considered in establishing liability is if you have hit someone in the rear, and you have front damage and he has rear. Then it's pretty obviously your fault. Same goes for offering to pay for her damage at the scene, this has no affect on liability. I've seen a few cases where someone admits fault at the scene, yet goes on to win the claim.

Report it to your insurers over the phone and as I said, be as honest as possible while maintaining the fact that you didn't change lane, and she overtook you when unsafe to do so. They should hopefully send you a claim form so you can give a good description of what happened. Also if possible draw clear diagrams of what happened. Some clients used to use google maps (or you could now use google streetview) to show road positions, layout etc. They're not always useful, but can sometimes help a case. Plus if it does go to court you will get some brownie points with the judge for doing your homework. And drop the negative attitude that you have shown on this forum. Don't go calling yourself a 'silly bugger' when speaking to your insurers. Like you said, maybe you should have done a lifesaver, but insurers are looking for something called 'proximate cause', and your lack of a lifesaver wasn't it.

Whenever you speak to your insurers (or theirs) be polite, courteous and concise. With cases where liability cannot be decided, courts are sometimes needed. If they think you are stupid, ignorant or untrustworthy, your insurers would rather settle 50/50 than let a judge decide. Even if a case is not your fault, poor character may go against you and putting you up in court is a risk most insurers won't take.

Having said that, if there are no independent witnesses, her insurers will likely accuse you of changing lanes. In which case it will almost certainly end 50/50. You can sometimes persuade them to try and go for 100% in your favour, but as I said above, you need to be very convincing and trustworthy.

Incidentally, what cover are you? Also, do you need to claim for anything (damage to vehicle, injuries, clothing), or were you ok?

Also, as I said above it's not the end of the world. 1 years NCB is only about 10-20% with most companies. My renewal this year (with 1 year NCB) was about £10 less than when I had zero no claims bonus last year. So ultimately it may only end up costing you a couple of quid in the long run.

Sometimes, unbelievably, it can even work in your favour. Insurance is a numbers game, and statistics say that after you have had an accident, you are less likely to have another. I had a few occasions where people had done quotes online, saying they had no claims, called up to buy the cover and confessed they did have an accident in the last 3 years, and their quote went down in price. But that does depend on other circumstances such as age and occupation etc.

So like I said:
Stay calm and be cool.
Don't worry.
Make a claim if you need to (she is, so why don't you)

If you need any more advice or any questions, let me know.