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Silver
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Joined: 03 Oct 2004
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PostPosted: 19:46 - 21 Aug 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
javabike wrote:
THAT was a counter Argument, please try a little harder. after all many on this site have to go to bed now!


It was nothing of the sort. I stated a fact and you retorted with childish insults. No wonder you can't convince people to join your 'cause'...

javabike wrote:
It appears OTHERS can have an opinion, but some can not!

My 'Reply' is, as I think is obvious, an opinion and as such requires NO proof! I have not Stated this is fact, it is by inference an opinion.


Hypocrit. Your lot have been attacking everyone else's opinion since you got here.

javabike wrote:
You can choose to accept or ignore an opinion. Nothing else matters.


It appears you cannot.
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javabike
Two Stroke Sniffer



Joined: 13 Aug 2010
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PostPosted: 19:58 - 21 Aug 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Wow such a weak unsubstanitiaed agrument!
Quote:
It was nothing of the sort. I stated a fact and you retorted with childish insults. No wonder you can't convince people to join your 'cause'It was nothing of the sort. I stated a fact and you retorted with childish insults. No wonder you can't convince people to join your 'cause'...
. OMG around and around the children tree we go!
Yo used NO facts!
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Silver
World Chat Champion



Joined: 03 Oct 2004
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PostPosted: 20:04 - 21 Aug 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
javabike wrote:
Wow such a weak unsubstanitiaed agrument!
Quote:
It was nothing of the sort. I stated a fact and you retorted with childish insults. No wonder you can't convince people to join your 'cause'It was nothing of the sort. I stated a fact and you retorted with childish insults. No wonder you can't convince people to join your 'cause'...
. OMG around and around the children tree we go!
Yo used NO facts!


What, that the other thread was over three times the size of this? It's a fact. I don't expect you to work in facts though, given your complete lack of salient points whilst debating thus far. Feel free to let me know why the thread isn't three times larger than this. I won't hold my breath though.
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javabike
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Joined: 13 Aug 2010
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PostPosted: 20:06 - 21 Aug 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
@Ste you supported my definition.
yet you ask me
Quote:
Do you have any reasons yet as to why bikes should be completely exempt or are you still just repeating the same old crap?

Yet You have given no plausible reason why we should pay more tax!


Oh Ste you have hurt me to the hilt.
Quote:
Your opinion doesn't matter. Nobody cares about your opinion.


And I thought all life mattered, all thought all opinion all pain.


Have you EVER been to Trafalgar square when the NTBPT ride in?
I can guess not, as what you say has no relevance to the reality
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javabike
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Joined: 13 Aug 2010
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PostPosted: 20:09 - 21 Aug 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
@Silver,
Quote:
Hypocrit. Your lot have been attacking everyone else's opinion since you got here.

I am not one who has attacked anyone!
Not that I have a problem with serious attack, but I do like a little banter with the lesser.
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javabike
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Joined: 13 Aug 2010
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PostPosted: 20:13 - 21 Aug 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
@Silver
oh dear the reflective 'back check' to the next quote seems to indicate a problem with logic
Silver's quote
[quote]What, that the other thread was over three times the size of this? It's a fact. I don't expect you to work in facts though, given your complete lack of salient points whilst debating thus far. Feel free to let me know why the thread isn't three times larger than this. I won't hold my breath though.[/quote
]
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Ste
Not Work Safe



Joined: 01 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: 20:15 - 21 Aug 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
See, this is why your campaign doesn't go anywhere.

No one bothered to answer my questions a couple of pages ago about the opportunity cost of land being assigned as bike parking. I assume the reason for that is you have absolutely no idea about the facts which are used to decided parking policies. If the campaign was based on fact then you'd have details like that and you'd be keen to point them out to people. Instead, all you can do is keep rambling on about the same old irrelevant crap.

The reason you have to pay is because of the high demand for the space. Car drivers are willing to pay for parking space so why should WCC give any land for bikes to park on for free?

Of course I haven't been to Trafalgar Square when your protests are happening. Laughing
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javabike
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Joined: 13 Aug 2010
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PostPosted: 20:24 - 21 Aug 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
@Ste. need to think about what you said OK?

@Ste and @Silver
1) Why should I pay to park on street when it is already paid for.
2) Why do NOT ALL bikers in England support all bikers in a democratic and legal fight?
3) BTW, NTBPT do little to cause traffic congestion at TS, it already existed before they get there it takes about 10 minutes on bike before the NTBPT gets there. Facts are WCC/London failed 15 years ago at no cost to get a proper traffic light management system that about 30 major cities (10 years ago) got to reduce their problems. I have more than once expanded on this. Next time you pay for the beers.
4)I NEVER park in London, but I hate paying for parking on the streets as I have ALREADY paid! car, bus, truck, bike! get it!
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Silver
World Chat Champion



Joined: 03 Oct 2004
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PostPosted: 20:28 - 21 Aug 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
javabike wrote:
@Silver
oh dear the reflective 'back check' to the next quote seems to indicate a problem with logic


What? Put that in English (and learn how forum quoting code works) and people might have a chance of understanding you.
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javabike
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Joined: 13 Aug 2010
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PostPosted: 20:36 - 21 Aug 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
@Ste
Actually you can see TS before NTBPT get there and after. Webcam thingies (sorry technical term)


Quote:
No one bothered to answer my questions a couple of pages ago about the opportunity cost of land being assigned as bike parking. I assume the reason for that is you have absolutely no idea about the facts which are used to decided parking policies. If the campaign was based on fact then you'd have details like that and you'd be keen to point them out to people. Instead, all you can do is keep rambling on about the same old irrelevant crap.

The reason you have to pay is because of the high demand for the space. Car drivers are willing to pay for parking space so why should WCC give any land for bikes to park on for free?


The fact is there are more on street parking places then 3 years ago. so the argument about scarce space is not relevant! this is WCC stats not mine.
As I said and keep saying I DO NOT park there, I ride through and see so much empty on street parking!
So the point has no relevance.
Or does it? no cars can park but bikes can, how can we make money out of this? Oh a bike charge, that is it! Reduce the bike parking spaces (which they have done) and charge only £1, are you kidding it would cost me about £8.

Oh I have not answer your question as no one has answered mine, why should I pay when I already have!
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javabike
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Joined: 13 Aug 2010
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PostPosted: 20:41 - 21 Aug 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
'Silver,
Quote:
What? Put that in English (and learn how forum quoting code works) and people might have a chance of understanding you.

the quote system here is at best 10 years old. It is not even positional to the current position.
In response to your concern:
Looking back on another tab, indicated that your remark did not resemble a response to what I had said.

It is hard to fly with eagles when held down by geese - IT stab - not you!
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Paxovasa
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Joined: 25 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: 20:45 - 21 Aug 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
javabike wrote:

You can choose to accept or ignore an opinion. Nothing else matters.


Opinions are like arseholes - Everyone has one Thumbs Up

You have one mouth and two ears for a reason Rolling Eyes
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Ste
Not Work Safe



Joined: 01 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: 20:54 - 21 Aug 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
javabike wrote:
1) Why should I pay to park on street when it is already paid for.
2) Why do NOT ALL bikers in England support all bikers in a democratic and legal fight?
3) BTW, NTBPT do little to cause traffic congestion at TS, it already existed before they get there it takes about 10 minutes on bike before the NTBPT gets there. Facts are WCC/London failed 15 years ago at no cost to get a proper traffic light management system that about 30 major cities (10 years ago) got to reduce their problems. I have more than once expanded on this. Next time you pay for the beers.
4)I NEVER park in London, but I hate paying for parking on the streets as I have ALREADY paid! car, bus, truck, bike! get it!

1. No it hasn't.
2. Because they don't agree with your argument.
3. Why do you bother with the Trafalgar Square protests then?
4. No you haven't. Buying a tax disc doesn't mean you've got a season ticket to park wherever you please.

javabike wrote:
Actually you can see TS before NTBPT get there and after. Webcam thingies (sorry technical term)

Ah, I've seen that stuff and the youtube videos which is why I was wondering why I'd need to go and sit in traffic to see what's happening. Razz
javabike wrote:
Or does it? no cars can park but bikes can, how can we make money out of this?

Yes. Bike parking can be paid for out of the councils coffers, if which case there is less money to be spent elsewhere. Or, bikes can contribute towards the cost of the facilities that only they get to benefit from. Slightly exaggerated scenario of a worse case example, but the more council money that gets spent on providing free motorcycle parking means less money for the NHS.

javabike wrote:
Oh I have not answer your question as no one has answered mine, why should I pay when I already have!

Because car parking spaces are far more valuable, to both local businesses and the council. Statistics about the opportunity cost of land being assigned as bike parking would either add a lot of strength to the campaign, or it would show the campaign to be as flawed as many people think it is.

Bikes have been getting free parking when there don't appear to be any justifiable reasons for it to continue. If there are any credible reasons with credible proof then now would be a good time to make them know. Well okay that's a bit of a lie, a good time would have been when in court but that opportunity was missed.
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javabike
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Joined: 13 Aug 2010
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PostPosted: 21:02 - 21 Aug 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
At the end of the day the NTBPT is growing stronger, They will not give in! I hope not! else all is lost, the strength of men will have failed.

Now my grief.
In my youth, seems but a flutter in time.
I was a civil engineer and amongst other things I was a road engineer.
Traffic flow control: traffic lights ( reduce accidents), roundabouts (increase in a control fashion traffic flow), give ways and stop signs (reduce traffic accidents).

WHY on earth put traffic lights in a roundabout, it would appear that England is on its own here. Though I noticed in Aussie, they did in one location- traffic flow reduced by half yet no less accidents.

Solution:
Let us take TS. No traffic lights in roundabout, control by traffic lights 500 metres back from roundabout.

Now that is what the police did by hand! the NTBPT had a hard time causing any issues, until the bendi-buses arrived. Once you have three bendi-buses in TS, TS just stops.
AS I said NTBPT has a minor impact, it is the failure of WCC and London to adopt a sensible traffic management approach.

Most ppl from Aussie laugh when they see traffic lights in roundabouts.
As I showed in another forum. The amount of traffic in London and Sydney is the same - same number of vehicles. No I will not go thru the whole thing again and show the facts, All I got was there are 20m in London and 5M is Sydney - they ignored the vehicle ownership and driving habits! Geographically, Sydney is the same size as London, Greater Sydney is the same is as Greater London. yet they both have the same number of vehicles going through and parking, yet who has the highest average speed?
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Ste
Not Work Safe



Joined: 01 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: 21:12 - 21 Aug 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Please keep making comparisons to Sydney...

The City of Sydney government website says "on-street parking permits for your motorcycle or scooter are now half the price of standard car permits"
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javabike
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Joined: 13 Aug 2010
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PostPosted: 21:13 - 21 Aug 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
@Ste, no offence why aren't you out getting drunk with someone. I am a loner. Like to be with ppl but upset them, too radical, or something.

OK to your points:
Quote:
1. No it hasn't.
2. Because they don't agree with your argument.
3. Why do you bother with the Trafalgar Square protests then?
4. No you haven't. Buying a tax disc doesn't mean you've got a season ticket to park wherever you please.

The quote system is woeful.
1. yes it is paid for!
2. I have not given one, yet i expect all bikers to stand beside or ignore all other bikers - NOT fight them.
3. The protest is a public event and the tourist love it, I mean really love it.
4. as per 1. The roads are paid for out of ROAD taxing. it is a road.
The bounds of a road extend from property boundary to property boundary and are public owned. Footpaths, services paths, etc form for the most part in the road boundaries.
True sometimes services will cross your back yard and true sometimes pathways, (what ever you what to call them) will cross private properties and form a right of way after 25 years.
now to the rest of your thoughts!
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javabike
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Joined: 13 Aug 2010
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PostPosted: 21:15 - 21 Aug 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
see it is already happening. Smile
Quote:
The City of Sydney government website says "on-street parking permits for your motorcycle or scooter are now half the price of standard car permits"

mind you there is actually less on street parking in Sydney than London. Places to park, forget legality.
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javabike
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Joined: 13 Aug 2010
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PostPosted: 21:17 - 21 Aug 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
@Ste
The SCC is a bunch of b***s anyway. Not withstanding the issues of involvement in criminal groups.
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javabike
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Joined: 13 Aug 2010
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PostPosted: 21:21 - 21 Aug 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
@Ste give some time to respond. I only got two fingers.

Quote:
Because car parking spaces are far more valuable, to both local businesses and the council. Statistics about the opportunity cost of land being assigned as bike parking would either add a lot of strength to the campaign, or it would show the campaign to be as flawed as many people think it is.

Well in the case of WCC, that would seem odd as they have many unused car parking spaces on street. So there is no rational - except 'making money' which is illegal under the terms of Government. AND BTW that is the NTBPT whole point. Or that is what i think is their point.
I am not them they are not me. I am a loner.
But I believe enough is enough!
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Ste
Not Work Safe



Joined: 01 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: 21:22 - 21 Aug 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
javabike wrote:
@Ste, no offence why aren't you out getting drunk with someone. I am a loner. Like to be with ppl but upset them, too radical, or something.

Because someone is wrong on the internet.

javabike wrote:
1. yes it is paid for!

It's only paid for if you buy a season ticket or whatever WCC call it.
javabike wrote:
2. I have not given one, yet i expect all bikers to stand beside or ignore all other bikers - NOT fight them.

I expect people to think for themselves rather than automatically joining a cause because it's being organised by someone who chooses to ride a bike.
javabike wrote:
3. The protest is a public event and the tourist love it, I mean really love it.

So you're continuing as a tourist attraction? Confused
javabike wrote:
4. as per 1. The roads are paid for out of ROAD taxing. it is a road.

Years and years ago it was like that, but it's not been that way for a very long time. Also there is no such thing as road tax.

Sleeping
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javabike
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Joined: 13 Aug 2010
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PostPosted: 21:31 - 21 Aug 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
@Ste
Quote:
Because someone is wrong on the internet.

I have been laughing for ten minutes. That really cracked me up.
Is it me? oh dear.
That is the best answer I have heard, in a long time.
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Silver
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Joined: 03 Oct 2004
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PostPosted: 21:33 - 21 Aug 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Just before someone else posts it...

https://funny.picturepie.com/images/arguing_internet_retarded.jpg
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javabike
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PostPosted: 21:37 - 21 Aug 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
It's only paid for if you buy a season ticket or whatever WCC call it.

No that is not true!
Quote:
I expect people to think for themselves rather than automatically joining a cause because it's being organised by someone who chooses to ride a bike.

yes but support or not support but not fight to be taxed - it makes no sense.
Quote:
So you're continuing as a tourist attraction? Confused

Yes! it is quite gratifying - I am vain and your point is? Anyway NTBPT must keep it in the public eye and worry WCC.


Quote:
Years and years ago it was like that, but it's not been that way for a very long time. Also there is no such thing as road tax

Whatever you pay the government to have a vehicle on the road - ie from property boundary to boundary is road tax - the name means nothing, tax, fee, charge, wanabe.
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javabike
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PostPosted: 21:41 - 21 Aug 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
@Silver
Quote:
Just before someone else posts it...

So why do we do it.
You and Ste and me would argue till dawn and order more beer. But we like to 'discuss' and ignore each others points!
Why are you here Silver at 9 on a Saturday night? Ste states to help someone who is wrong (ie me) and et tu?
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javabike
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PostPosted: 21:54 - 21 Aug 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
This fight by NTBPT is not about £1 (it is more than a pound anyway), is is about freedom, it is about the right of all motorists (and yes many NTBPT think it is the thin edge of the wedge).
WE SHOULD NEVER HAVE PAID FOR ON STREET PARKING, NEVER.
The thoughts are about all motorists.
It is known if a motorists needs for good reason (emergency, wedding, etc) to get thru TS, the NTBPT will move aside, in fact guide.
FACT!
These ppl are not arseholes, they are ppl who believe and will fight for the right! They have families, are professionals.
Many of those inconenienced support the cause. Busses, trucks, taxis, (and quietly police) and members of WCC and other groups.
This is a ppl fight! Starts small gets bigger.
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