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CB 125 17 bhp

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spears
Two Stroke Sniffer



Joined: 12 Aug 2010
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PostPosted: 20:36 - 23 Aug 2010    Post subject: CB 125 17 bhp Reply with quote
Hi all, after my CCM disaster the seller has agreed to refund me completely. So.... I have seen a CB125 for sale but it is the 17 bhp version but was made pre the 12 bhp law.

Can this still be ridden by myself with only a CBT?

Thanks
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Paxovasa
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PostPosted: 20:38 - 23 Aug 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yes, but legally no Thumbs Up

You should be riding a restricted bike while on L plates.
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spears
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PostPosted: 20:54 - 23 Aug 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Good answer!

So it being made pre the law coming in doesn't matter?
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Paxovasa
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PostPosted: 20:55 - 23 Aug 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
spears wrote:
Good answer!

So it being made pre the law coming in doesn't matter?


No, as before the restriction you could ride 250cc bikes on L plates.
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spears
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PostPosted: 20:59 - 23 Aug 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
BLUEX5 wrote:
Paxovasa wrote:
Yes, but legally no Thumbs Up

You should be riding a restricted bike while on L plates.


I thought Pre '82 stuff like RD125 twins and CB125 twin didn't have to be 12 bhp, hence why they were sought after when biking was ruined by the 125 law.


Thats what I thought!
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ian789
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PostPosted: 21:08 - 23 Aug 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Your licence says you can only ride up to a 125cc with less than 14.6 bhp.
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spears
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PostPosted: 21:21 - 23 Aug 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
https://www.direct.gov.uk/en/motoring/learnerandnewdrivers/ridingmotorcyclesandmopeds/dg_4022568

11 kw? What on earth is that in real terms?
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ian789
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PostPosted: 21:33 - 23 Aug 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
14.6 horses Very Happy
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 21:49 - 23 Aug 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hi

Under the old 9kW / 12hp limit there was an exemption allowing you to ride a 125 if any power if registered before the 125cc learner limit came in. However I am not sure that this exemption still applies since the law changed to 11kW / ~15hp.

Not sure that any of the pre restriction 125s are really over 11kW anyway.

All the best

Keith
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spears
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PostPosted: 21:54 - 23 Aug 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Wow this really does get messy! Thanks for all your help but I am not really all that clear!
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spears
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PostPosted: 22:16 - 23 Aug 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yeah that was my next thought!

Would the insurance get messy though?
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binge
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PostPosted: 23:52 - 23 Aug 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
rob yarrr wrote:
people ride aprilia rs's that kick out like 25hp i know and havnt had any problems

all the insurance want is your money,just if you crash they probs won't cover you if they find out its more hp than it should be



Try 33bhp.

Also, The police are now equipped with road side rolling roads.
Although they are no good for testing BHP figures, only top speed figures.




Cheers


Ben
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 00:10 - 24 Aug 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
binge wrote:

Although they are no good for testing BHP figures, only top speed figures.


Bit pointless when a rolling road can only guess at simulating the drag and hence the actual top speed, and without some load to simulate the drag the top speed on a rolling road is purely down to gearing.

And no way does an RS make a real 33hp Laughing

All the best

Keith
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Digitalize
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PostPosted: 01:20 - 24 Aug 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'd ride it regardless, you still get insured, don't get pulled over etc etc, just don't crash Wink

RS125's produced A SUPPOSED 33bhp according to claims, i reckon the newer ones are around 30, and the older ones about 27, when new that is.

Its gotta be close to 30Bhp as they'll pull a tonne.... eventually.
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Ingah
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PostPosted: 04:38 - 24 Aug 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'd dyno it and check. Got a feeling that your particular example may well be legal (i.e. below 14.6BHP actual power- at least if i remember the law's wording correctly). Keep the dyno printout under the seat or something to help placate a particularly nosy plod.
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 10:58 - 24 Aug 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Digitalize wrote:
RS125's produced A SUPPOSED 33bhp according to claims, i reckon the newer ones are around 30, and the older ones about 27, when new that is..


Never seen an Aprilia claim for them producing 33hp, although lots of owners claim that.

Early ones made about 28.5hp on the dyno in road tests when new. Later ones are less powerful, having far worse exhausts (although easily changed) and smaller carbs, plus I think more retarded ignition timing to cope with lower octane fuel.

All the best

Keith
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binge
Emo Kiddy



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PostPosted: 18:25 - 24 Aug 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kickstart wrote:

Bit pointless when a rolling road can only guess at simulating the drag and hence the actual top speed, and without some load to simulate the drag the top speed on a rolling road is purely down to gearing.



It's only for testing Mopeds. They are allowed 33mph on the Rollers, anything higher and the bike is taken away.

A scooter is geared to do 31mph smack bang on, the only time they will ever go over that is down a hill (My speedfight used to indicate 36/37mph down hill)

But yeah, even in perfect conditions with no wind resistance, the vari-drive setup shouldn't let them go over 31mph. Police Dyno's give 33mph allowing the 10%.
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spears
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PostPosted: 18:31 - 24 Aug 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
By the sounds of all this, regardless of the extra few horses, I think if the bike is in a1 condition it is worth a punt.
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 18:43 - 24 Aug 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
binge wrote:

But yeah, even in perfect conditions with no wind resistance, the vari-drive setup shouldn't let them go over 31mph. Police Dyno's give 33mph allowing the 10%.


Any geared moped will likely do more, and plenty of mopeds have been restricted by power (ie, built to just have enough power to do ~30mph) with no rpm restriction. On a dyno these would just rev until they went bang / hit the ultimate rev limited which would likely to well over 30mph (play with the gearing and you could probably get them over 100mph on a rolling road, but with no hope of doing that if moving).

All the best

Keith
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Teflon-Mike
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Joined: 01 Jun 2010
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PostPosted: 15:46 - 31 Aug 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kickstart wrote:
Hi

Under the old 9kW / 12hp limit there was an exemption allowing you to ride a 125 if any power if registered before the 125cc learner limit came in. However I am not sure that this exemption still applies since the law changed to 11kW / ~15hp.

Not sure that any of the pre restriction 125s are really over 11kW anyway.

All the best

Keith


Pretty much of the same opinion, understanding as Kick.

I have (As well as half a dozed CB125's!) a pre-83, air-cooled DT125, supposed to make 'about' 16bhp, though specs vary from anything between 14 & 17. Doesn't really effect me as I have a full licence, but would if the G/F or one of my kids was to want to ride it.

By the 'precedents' of whats known as 'grandad rights', certain laws aren't retrospective. So, if you have a 1976 Laverda Jota with open conti megaphone exhausts, which is how it came from the importers, and was 'legal' under teh C&U regs when first sold, you couldn't fail it on MOT for being 'unreasonably loud' by the modern regulations!

But Mopeds are the easiest one to explain.

Mopeds are a 'class' of vehilce on the Log-book, like 'car', and over the years the regulations have been changed frequently to say what is or isn't a 'moped'.

Before, I think it was 1972, the 'moped' was simply a taxation class for motorcycles less than 50cc normally with pedals, and not very fast.

1972 they lifted the age of entitlement for a provisional motorcycle holder to 17 for motorcycles, and restricted 16 year olds to mopeds.

So the Japs started building 'super-mopeds', 50cc motorbikes with race tuned engines, and they introduced a law to say they had to have pedals...... so they fitted pedals to them.......

So they intorduced a law removing the requirement to have pedals, and insisting they were restricted to 3.5bhp and 35mph, and in the latest round of changes now 32mph.

BUT, what is a moped, NOW is not what a moped WAS, so if it says moped on the log-book, and it HASN'T been modified away from what the regs were when it was built, it is STILL a moped, and you can ride it at 16 and on a moped licence.

125 Learner legals are a tad different, in that the 1983 learner law specified that to BE learner Legal it had to be less than 12bhp.

Nothing on the log-book SAYS its Learner-Legal, so its a LICENCE restriction, ENTIRELY the riders responsibility to ensure that the bike IS 12bhp.

Manufacturers from 1982 obligingly provided by making 12bhp complient 125's available, though not ALL 125 bikes sold new were Learner Legal.

Again, riders responsibility.

The 'exemption' enjoyed by pre 1983 125's, was a caveot provided to allow people to buy 125's ahead of the Learner-Laws and to provide 2nd hand learner legal bikes in the first few years of the laws existance, presuming most 'old' 125's would be worn out, crashed or lost to posterity within perhaps ten years, and few if any were significantly more powerful than the 12bhp bikes anyway.

AND in them days if you didn't pass a test within two years, you lost provisional entitlement for a year, anyway, & remember teh grandad rights were provided by the licence NOT the bikes registration.

so I SUSPECT that as Kicks suggestion, the revisions to the learner laws and the increase to 14.6 bhp, and rewording of the actual rules PROBABLY supercede the caveot, and the 'grandad-rights' the old bikes enjoyed, has been lost.

Basically if you COULD ride an unrestricted pre 83 bike on a provisional licence, by legacy, if you haven't passed a test on the darn thing, you should have lost the entitlememnt to ride it ANYWAY, as the 'rights' would be on the riders licence NOT the motorcycles log-book, if you see what I mean.

PRACTICALLY, Honda CB125T, 17bhp, barely 3 over the modern learner limit, IF the specs are NOT inflated, as many were, AND the ruddy thing is in the sort of fettle that it actually MAKES the power it MIGHT have had when it left the factory........ AND if any-one actually gives a shit... I dont think it would make much odds!

I mean we are talking about a VERY old bike here, very close to what IS learner Legal, we are NOT talking about a hot-snot Hi-Po NSR or Cagiva, making double the power limit tearing around at 90+, but a humble commuter bike, NOT likely to gain any attension from any-one, that despite its notional power advantage, STILL struggles to do 70...... and If ANY-ONE even KNOWS what they are looking at, OR that it might on PAPER make more power than your allowed, Then that person will be an 'enthusiast', more likely to bore you with tales of thier youth, and touring round Wales on one one wet summer when they were 17 than giving you a ticket for it........

your call, but I'd play dumb!
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Truzo
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PostPosted: 00:29 - 04 Sep 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
I dont think it would make any differance.

my friend had a cb 125 superdream and it couldnt pull at all. i think a cg would have beat it.

Saying that, my standard rd125lc beats my friends standard cbr125

on my speedo i get 85mph so i guess it could be up too 7 mph out so i think im hitting just shy of 80 really. (a bit less if i run it on regular unleaded, this thing loves supa)
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Kickstart
The Oracle



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PostPosted: 00:49 - 04 Sep 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hi

CB125TD should be a fair bit quicker than a CG ; 5~10mph on top speed. They aren't that light though.

If the RD125LC is restricted then the real top speed should be in the low 70s. Full power I think they did 87mph, athough would indicate ~95 without too much trouble.

All the best

Keith
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