Fighting, Lid on or Lid off?

[TheDonUK]

So the polish biker video comments got me thinking, say you find yourself in a nasty 1v1 road rage fight and as you see things turning sour you have the time/opportunity to remove your lid (and for arguments sake running/defusing the situation is out of the question), Do you?

Personally i have experienced a few related incidents which support both sides of the argument, but yet am undecided about the best course of action.

First was years ago delivering pizzas in a shoddy area of london, some 45 ish year old guy (with a car full of his family, good example for the kids) obveously did not like getting overtaken by a pizza hut ped, did a dangerous overtake and slammed on the brakes forcing me up onto the kerb (sub 30mph), seeing that a fight was imminent i pretty much chucked the ped in the nearby hedge just as he came in swinging, but he was punching me in the helmet , not causing any pain at all, except to himself i would imagine, i threw some punches back, we scuffled about in the hedge a bit, but he never tried to grab the helmet and manipulate my head/neck, perhaps the rage of beiing overtaken by a pizza hut ped removed all tactics... Anyway, I dident get hurt because i had my lid/jacket on.

Second occasion for balance was also years back some pikey looking fuckers turned right across the road (traveling from the opporsite direction from my POV turning left across me) as if i was not there, while i was emergency braking i saw a smug smileon the drivers face which just made me rabid, so i thought about it, and thought, no thats too much of a liberty so stupidly turned around and chased him down the side road to find him stopped half way down, still in the car, as i pull up to his drivers door he jumps out with a claw hammer and runs at me, at this point im still in gear with the clutch in, i dont know why i stayed as long as i did but he got a grip of my chin bar and looked like he wanted to put the hammer thru my visor. Figuring this was far too dangerous, him being tooled up, and on foot i simultaneously lowered my head to the tank as best as possible and dumped the clutch, i guess the frontside of the bike must have pushed him a bit as his grip failed and i just tore off down the road, well shook up by the hammer (intended effect i guess).

That all said (and yes i have learned certain lessons about just letting things slide) i still think you are better off with the lid on and being manipulated around but your head still protected, rather than taking it off and using it as a weapon.

This is not intended to be about the rights and wrongs of fighting/roadraging, just which way a helmet tips the tactical advantage for or against you...

Thoughts?
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[Current Bikes - GSXR-750 K5 & C90-97 ] [Previous Bikes: Runner 125, YBR 125, GS500, Bandit 600, Hornet 600, ZX6R-99, C90-99, R1-99, XT600E-04, GSXR-750 K4, CRF250L '16]

[c_dug]

Have been warned before about people grabbing the bottom of your lid while wearing it, and seen it put to good effect by my mates dad when my mate pissed him off.

Still it would be staying firmly on my head, even with your hammer example I would rather somebody attempted to hammer my through the lid then have a direct shot at my face.

Also ever seen McGee's video of him shooting a helmet with a hand gun? Turned out to be pretty bullet proof too.

(Anybody know where he got to by the way?)
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I am a bellend, I am a man of constant sorrow, I am a gummy bear, I am a rock.

[MarJay]

[Frost]

Depends on who your fighting really. A lot of people will just whack you then back off / run away to avoid being hit back. In the case i'd rather be wearing a lid.

Some people want to seriously hurt you and will start off hitting, then the fight will become grappling as you try to stop them hitting you and hit back etc. Once it gets to this point your lack of vision and movement will be a problem. Your helmet will become a weapon against you as they can use it to manipulate your head.

If i were to be attacked randomly i'd be glad to have a helmet on. If i knew i were going to be in a proper fight i'd take i off. If i were riding into what looked like trouble i'd get the fuck out of there quick.

I once had a guy try and push me over when i was stopped at some lights in a town center at night, I just rode off through the red light. Bikes are small and quick enough to get away with it mostly. Had a policeman seen me i'd have just honestly explained the situation, and would expect to get away with a lecture.

[c_dug]

[TheDonUK]

MJ I am older now and marginally wiser, often letting things slide, just using the examples as how it can help and hinder...

just wondering as i had seen people on here, as well as my mate who reckon it would be taken off and swung, i cant see that being that im pretty small ill take all the defensive kit, plus armored knuckles over a helmet no?
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[Current Bikes - GSXR-750 K5 & C90-97 ] [Previous Bikes: Runner 125, YBR 125, GS500, Bandit 600, Hornet 600, ZX6R-99, C90-99, R1-99, XT600E-04, GSXR-750 K4, CRF250L '16]

[multijoy]

I wouldn't be pulling my lid off unless I thought there was a chance of calming things down.

Grabbing the helmet could be an issue- control & restraint techniques, as I understand, generally rely on having the head under control. If you've given the opponent an easy way to pull your head down, you may find yourself fucked!

That said, if he's still upright after the helmet'ed headbutts, he probably deserves it.

All speculation, mind. If discretion is the better part of valour, and cowardice is the better part of discretion, I'll be up on the pavement and through a red light before they can get their seat belt off!

(Although I did once find that getting close to their door means they can't open it, which could give you an extra 10 seconds to gtfo...)
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'11 CBF1000A, '99 C90, '98 CB500
silky666: He rode amazingly well considering his bike is the weight of a small van and had slicks on.

[deleted111]

[pepperami]

I had an incident with a cager a while back whilst I was on the bike.

I was filtering through traffic in west London (Hounslow if you know it) and an Escort turbo boy took exception and opened his door, nearly having me off .
After an exchange of swearwords I left and made my way.
Low and behold !! five minutes later he is behind me and giving me the finger .
I pull into a car park and get off the bike just as he pulls in.
Out he jumps all hard boy and Mr angry .

I may not be the worlds hardest man, but I am big enough to look after myself, with or without a crash-helmet on .
So I am not to concerned about this idiot because unless he is a martial arts expert/boxer/draws a weapon, I know I can deal with him .
Him being about 10 stone dripping wet and me being 16stone+.

I let him rage at me and then told him to go away before I thump him (I know I should of just shut up )
He is so angry that he takes a swing at me that misses .
As he goes to take the second swing, I just lower my head and duck a little.
The result was that he punched the helmet full on, on the top!
I swear that even though I had a helmet on, I could hear the bones in his hand break .
My nice thick bash-hat kept me nice and safe and did`nt even get marked.

When I left the car park, he was quiet as a mouse nursing his hand and trying to puke.


Crash-helmets are good
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I am the sum total of my own existence, what went before makes me who I am now!

[The Artist]

[angryjonny]

[robbieguy2003]

I'd prefer to take it off, i quite like my helmet, i'd keep my gloves on though.

Generally im pretty calm until someone starts hitting me, and i'll try and avoid fighting at nearly all costs.

In a fight, i'd generally expect to get hit a few times, thats just how it goes i think. If you go into a fight being scared of getting hit, you're already fucked. You get overly scared and throw punches that seem to have less strength than your nan, and afterwards think, i could have done better than that!

As a rule of thumb, while you might come across a nasty bastard once in a while, they aren't normally the ones that get out of the car and start shouting the odds, they're the ones that walk over with a strange look on their face and just hit you.

If you get silence and the strange look, all the anger is going off in their head and you should probrably run.

The angry gobby ones are normally nobs.
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Old Bikes: Suzuki Intruder 125 LC - '2001, Honda CBR 600F - '92, Honda CBR 600RR - '03

[pepperami]

99.999% of the time, if I get into a spat with another road user, I just ride/drive away and think to myself what a cock they are!
I will only re-act to being attacked and will never attack anyone first.
It really is`nt worth the hassle, I`m a lover not a fighter.

the same as when people are acting idiots on the road, I just let them go past.
I just cant be arsed to get all worked up about it (must be getting old )
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I am the sum total of my own existence, what went before makes me who I am now!

[MaybeGuy]

my lid cost £370. It would come off.

Plus any marks on me would get a nice bit of compo
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Blue_SV650S wrote: it was a sh1te wheelie, but it proves that he can get it up in 3rd and can do angles. In summery, mattsprattuk is a gobby little sh1tebag, dopehead tw4t, but sadly for all of us, he probably isn't THAT full of sh1te!!
Kickstart wrote: Hi I tend to agree with Matt. All the best Keith

[Spit-Fire]

every one on here is a biker... so of course you assess the personal danger and think, he/she might grab my lid if i leave it on...

but do you think a random road user would be as quick to think the same thing?

if i wasn't one and a biker came up to me, armoured gloves, armoured jacket, and a helmet... id be thinking, fuck, where am i going to hit him now (the balls )
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they say the good die young... i say we just live faster

[Wafer_Thin_Ham]

I reckon I'd be keeping mine on in the situation outlined. It gives you more protection and in the heat of the moment your average joe isn't going to think to grab it.

I'd hopefully have them subdued with the armoured gloves before they got a chance to try and snap my neck using the chin bar.
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[2wheelsteve]

Lid off really, open face lid might be better to leave on but I personally would and have took my lid off, last guy I had a scuffle with I leapt into the car as well because I was extremely angry so if I'd had my lid on I would have been restricted movement wise, better visabilty too, if your just gonna take a kicking then leave your lid on, makes sense hey haha, happy scrapping
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[woll]

Leave the lid on incase i need to make hasty exit. And to be fair they would be doing really well to get close enough to me to grab my helmet, I have arms like an orang-outang. Add that to the fact i wrestle with cows fairly regularly i think i'd have a dam good chance of keeping them at bay, if not the boot in the balls and ride like a nutjob.
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Damaged spleen, damaged kindey, 2 popped lungs, 2 broken ribs, broken face, broken wrist and 5 back fractures... remember kids walls hurt

[waffles]

[Misc]

As Dafrostyone pointed out, it could be a massive disadvantage but the big advantage would being that they would need to get you in some sort of submission lol, if you're fully kitted up anyway.

Thinking about it tho, most people don't seem to be able to throw a punch & just go "windmilling in" so you'd have plenty of time for a well placed hit if you were toe to toe as you wouldn't need to guard.

I'm not a fighter, never have been (there are times when i visualize beating the crap out of someone) but in the times we live in today, you could be the next knife victim. Something you didn't really worry about years ago.

[NickD]

Given chance the lid would be in my hand, they're a surprisingly decent weapon.
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I was only doing what it said on my licence officer....
Tear along the dotted line!

[iooi]

[Dibble]

The advice I got when I started despatching was to keep your helmet on but undo the strap that way if someone grabs the chin bar you could wriggle out of it.

You can use it as a weapon- a 7.5t truck squeezed passed me as I was parked writing down some details knocking me over onto the pavement,

it then got stuck so I ran up to it and opened the passenger door shouting "What the Fu8k ...."etc,

the passenger got out then reached back in and got a bit of wood about a foot long(scary) and came for me, I had my helmet in my left hand and punched him a few times with it until the driver pulled him away,

got back on, rode to the pick up, put my helmet down on the reception desk and saw the back was covered in his blood........should have hit the driver really

I've been saved by my armor as well I split up a fight between a 30 year old bloke and one who must have been 70, the 30 year olds wife ran up behind me with one of those yellow crooklock things that locked the handbrake to the gear leaver and started hitting me in the back protector then on the shoulder armor. I must have seemed invunerable

[Aspire]

keep it on most nobs square up to you as soon as hes in arms length hes getting his face caved in with a helbutt.

[Chalky.]

I would hit them on the head with my willy.