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Having you car or bike seized - hypothetical question

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SlimRick
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PostPosted: 14:16 - 04 Sep 2010    Post subject: Having you car or bike seized - hypothetical question Reply with quote

Following on from this on the BBC:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-11187747

If you get your car or bike seized for any reason by the rozzers, are you obliged to give them the keys?
The recovery people don't necessarily need them to winch it up onto a recovery truck so surely you're not stopping them from taking it if you refuse to hand over the keys.
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Asharin
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PostPosted: 16:04 - 04 Sep 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was just about to post a link to that page, good thing I checked first!

I think those 2 coppers are going to get reamed by their superiors Very Happy
I wouldn't like to be the one to go and tell the owner...
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colin1
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PostPosted: 17:01 - 04 Sep 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Funnily enough, i just gave the answer to this question in another thread about the v5.

Basically, when you sign the v5, you sign away your legal ownership of the car in return for being able to use the roads, and you are signing to say that you will accept the charges for using the roads. It's a contract in which you agree to their rules.

So consequently, if the policeman is acting to take control of the states property 'your' car, he is legally authorised to do so. Whether the policeman was acting as an agent of the state or whatever the legal jargon would be, or whether he just effectively persuaded someone to hand over the keys to him as a private individual, is another matter. Personally I think if you hand the keys over, you have given consent for it to be driven.

The policemen probably shouldnt have driven it however, as they probably wouldnt be insured to drive it. Using a recovery company to remove vehicles seems like a good idea to avoid the risk of policeman crashing something and the legal consequences of that.

If they were insured to drive it, its more a case of not following the correct protocol of moving it, or in this case more like dangerous driving.
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reggie
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PostPosted: 17:11 - 04 Sep 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

i ushaly try to refuse to get them my keys thay dont need it for a bike if stering lock is not on the thay ushaly threten you with arest most police are cunt with the od ok one or 2 imo most of them just want to make a name for themselves hence whay i fail to stop now because of the cost of having my bike impounded
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multijoy
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PostPosted: 17:36 - 04 Sep 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

colin1 wrote:
Funnily enough, i just gave the answer to this question in another thread about the v5.

Basically, when you sign the v5, you sign away your legal ownership of the car in return for being able to use the roads, and you are signing to say that you will accept the charges for using the roads. It's a contract in which you agree to their rules.


Lol wut?

The only part of the vehicle the state (the DVLA, in this case) owns is the registration. A v5 is a registration document, and shows to whom the vehicle is registered to and thus who is responsible for the various charges, etc.

The DVLA can rescind registration from time to time, for various reasons. They do not need to sieze the vehicle to do this. The practical upshot is that the vehicle cannot be driven on public roads until registration is re-obtained; DVLA can, depending on the circumstances, put various conditions on this or indeed refuse to do so at all. This is the only claim on the vehicle the state has.

The police's (and the DVLA's) powers to sieze are statutory, they've nothing to do with any contract between you and the state and don't change the fact that you own the physical vehicle until such time as you sign it away or it is confiscated.
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G
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PostPosted: 17:43 - 04 Sep 2010    Post subject: Re: Having you car or bike seized - hypothetical question Reply with quote

Well, I'll be certainly handing my keys over if they're going to do that when threatening me with something!
Going to be hard for their evaluation of safe driving to stand up in court - and expect the police should be paying out a heft wad to the car owner for various bits as well!
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Phoenix
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PostPosted: 18:22 - 04 Sep 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's curious that they are suggesting there's just an investigation as to why it was driven and not put on a low loader, i'd be more concerned about why it's upside down in someone's garden. Oh well i'm sure there's a perfectly good explanation like they had to avoid a drunk and disorderly squirrel in the road and they were driving it to make sure it was the drunk driver causing the erratic movements and not the car itself.
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Nexus Icon
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PostPosted: 18:44 - 04 Sep 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unless the press/public show real outrage about this it will be swept under the carpet, so I doubt we'll hear any more about it.
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MinhDinh
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PostPosted: 19:42 - 04 Sep 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well if they did that on a bike, they would mostlikely die so I doubt they will jump on a bike ^^
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Mister James
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PostPosted: 19:58 - 04 Sep 2010    Post subject: Re: Having you car or bike seized - hypothetical question Reply with quote

SlimRick wrote:

If you get your car or bike seized for any reason by the rozzers, are you obliged to give them the keys?
The recovery people don't necessarily need them to winch it up onto a recovery truck so surely you're not stopping them from taking it if you refuse to hand over the keys.


Nope, as long as you're not under arrest (in which case they could take the keys off you along with anything else that could be dangerous) you could refuse to hand them over.

In Metrocity we use contractors to remove vehicles to pounds. Occasionally Traffic or an advanced driver will take a vehicle back to the nick to be searched or the like.

The coppers involved - at least the driver - are going to get butt-raped. Anything from bringing the service into disrepute to TWOC could be thrown at them.
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ajbsmirnoff
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PostPosted: 20:04 - 04 Sep 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you think they'll have the cheek to charge the owner for recovery and storage costs ? I bet they do.
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multijoy
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PostPosted: 21:21 - 04 Sep 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not if they're sensible. It's a proper PR nightmare- those coppers were joyriding, they'll be lucky to get away with a simple sacking.

If they've got any sense, they'll make sure the owner has a shiny '10 reg evo XXXXXXXXXXIII waiting for him, with a little note saying 'we're really sorry about those officers, please don't sue!'.
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Mister James
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PostPosted: 21:22 - 04 Sep 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

ajbsmirnoff wrote:
Do you think they'll have the cheek to charge the owner for recovery and storage costs ? I bet they do.


I bet they don't - I bet the owner ends up quids-in, in an attempt to calm the story down as much as possible.
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