The price of bikes

[londonbill]

Shocking really when you think about it.
You don't get much change, if any, from ten grand now, for the average superbike, and what exactly are we getting for the money.
Strip a Fireblade down to it's basic parts and lay them out on the floor.
Then do the same with a car of the same cost, and tell me we're getting good value for money.
Ah yes, but with a bike we're getting the performance of a supercar costing 10X's as much.
Well yes, but that's not something designers have to lay awake endlessly thinking about.
That's just power to weight ratio, not rocket science.
A convenient byproduct of taking an engine producing 100+bhp, tacking a wheel onto each end and sticking a seat on on it.
It's not something that alone can justify the cost, as there is no cost involved.
So where is the money going ?
Engines that have barely moved on in 20 years, Ally frames, bicycle chains, crude sprung forks.
Now look at cars.
For example.
Very clever ultra sophisticated 1329CC VVTI engine way ahead of any bike engine in terms of high tech.
ABS
ESP
Power steering
A/C
Cruise control
and so on, and that's in a Toyota Yaris that costs the same as a new R1.
BMW and Harley are the worst.
They charge medium sized car money for bikes with engines dating back to the 1920's.
In terms of metal for money.
How can new bike prices be justified.

[MarJay]

Because a performance car that could outperform an R1 would cost a LOT.
____________________
British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.

[londonbill]

[MarJay]

*sigh*

The yen, the current financial circumstances yadda yadda.

Bikes are still great value for money; For example, look at the BMW 1 series coupe. For a top of the range 135i you're looking at paying £30k. £35k if you're a bit wild with the biro on the options checkboxes. £35k! Sure, its a good car, but that is more money than I earn in a year...? I read somewhere that you're supposed to spend a maximum of 20% of your yearly earnings on a car. In that case I'd have to be earning £175k to afford a mid level coupe!!

On the other hand, I can have a brand new mid level motorcycle for £5k with a bit of haggling.... Its not as if I'm buying the motorcycling equivalent of a Veyron, but then again my 1 series example isn't a Veyron either.

Face it, bikes are good value, and they'd be hard pressed to become as poor value as cars have become.
____________________
British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.

[londonbill]

[MarJay]

[Gone]

Simple solution if you think bikes are overpriced - don't buy one, they are not compulsory. I live in Finland where a new Fireblade is roughly twice as expensive as it is in the UK (more if you take the lower wages & higher taxes into account), yet they still sell. Hell, if I had that kind of money, I'd have one too, instead of my 25 year old GSX1100.

[Derivative]

Barely moved on in 20 years? What do you want, a 500bhp 100kg rocket sled?

1992 Fireblade: ~120bhp
2008 Fireblade: ~180bhp

Oh, it lost about 10kg as well.

ABS? We have it. ESP on a bike, don't be a twat.

I don't claim to have any idea of bicycle geometry but i'd wager it's a LOT more complicated than "stick two wheels on a frame lol" when it comes down to cornering at 1xx mph in the wet.

Really, with bikes selling as little as they do, I'm surprised they're as cheap as they are. Remember cars are mass produced to a daft extent.

[MarJay]

[Motkram]

Engineering, design, development, production/tooling, marketing, distribution and aftersales costs of millions spread over worldwide sales of tens of thousands of bikes, compared to hundreds of thousands/millions of car sales.

Let's not forget racing ventures and development cost either...

If you want good value purchase price to scrap ratio, don't buy a bike.

It's pretty simple.
____________________
Part-time GSXR1000 pilot>Micron Serpert system+K&N, PC111, Sigma slipper clutch, Brembo m/c+Galfer discs, Gilles rearsets, Translogic Quickshifter.

GP125>GSF400>VFR400NC30>YZF600R>YZFR1(1998)+KLR250>YZFR1(2003)>CBR900RRY>YZFR1(2002)>GSXR1000K1+RGV250

[craigs23]

[FLV]

a large chunk of the price increase in cars driven by legislation, emissions for instance.
I expect bikes are the same.

Also, as labour costs and material prices rise around the world (from the price of seat material to the cost of proving ground usage) so must the price of the end product.

Obviously theres a lot more to it, but I cant be arsed typing all that.

Basically, Facts of modern life my friend.
____________________
parp...brap....parp

[Blau Zedong]

OP a Troll or just slow in the mind? Who knows?
____________________
18:54:48 Rob Fzs: jews don't give away stuff for free

18:54:59 Rob Fzs: unless its their clothes/ hair/ golden teeth

[iooi]

[Nexus Icon]

Blimey, when you can buy a pushbike for £4,000, motorbikes suddenly seem reasonably priced.

https://www.whytebikes.com/2011/model_range.php?BikeModels=7

Edit: Sorry, didn't notice last line of post above until I'd submitted.

[pinkyfloyd]

Lets settle this once and for all in a simple way.

You buy an R1 and it will cost you the guts of 10 grand, For that you get a motorised vehicle that will hit 100mph in a few seconds and will do top speed of 180+mph,.

Now you find a car that will do that for the same money and then tell us that bikes are not good value for money.

yes they are expensive, yes they havent changed much in engine design and suspension set up in years but neither have the engines in porshe's and lambo's etc. They have just been fine tuned the same as bikes have been over the years.

Also car engines have gotten bigger. I'd love to see them stick a 4 litre engine into a Triumph Rocket 3 without making it even bigger than the beast is now with its 2.3 engine.

Now back to one of your earlier posts. You can spend 10 grand on a bike and for the same money you get a toyota yaris. Top speed of about 110mph eventually. 0-60 in a decade and off the lights against a bike of the same value then it wouldnt have a chance of ever catching it.

ultimately to summarise. You pay for performance. I'll happily pay 10 grand for a bike that will tear strips off a ferrai costing 15X that.
____________________
illuminateTHEmind wrote: I am just more evolved than most of you guys... this allows me to pick of things quickly which would have normally taken the common man years to master
Hockeystorm65:.well there are childish arguments...there are very childish arguments.....there are really stupid childish arguments and now there are......Pinkfloyd arguments!
Teflon-Mike:I think I agree with just about all Pinky has said.

[Rowey]

WEEEEEE!!!

https://cdn.bikechatforums.com/files/trollercoaster.jpg
____________________
ZX6R C6F.
Never argue with an idiot. They'll only bring you down to their level, and beat you with experience.

[N cee thirty]

i fail to understand why people come on to a motorbike forum and then say how shit and undeveloped they are.

i say,if it ain't broke,don't fix it.
____________________
'00 Aprilia RS50 > '92 Honda CG > '99 Yamaha Fazer > '91 Yamaha RXS > '79 Suzuki X5 > 01' Honda Cg > 07' Honda Cg > 82' Kawasaki Z200 > suzuki gsxr 400 gk73a > honda vfr 400 NC30 Mod 2 Passed 09/06/2011

Jewlio Iglesias wrote: I actually did vote BNP once

[Kickstart]

Hi

It takes a lot of work to design a bike to stay together and produce the levels of power required now while being fairly light. This cost is shared over a fairly small number of bikes sold, while a Yaris might cost £1b to develop that that cost is spread over millions of cars. While an R1 might only cost a few tens of millions of develop the sales to recoup that are tiny.

Add to that cars have a lot of hidden components that they can share between models (heaters, electric window motors, complete engines or just most components for an engine), cutting the cost of those items further. Nearest bikes get to that is shuffling off out of date engines onto naked bikes (ie, oil cooled Bandits, Hornets, etc).

Those that should really be coining it are those with minimal development costs and high sales of basically unchanging models. That is pretty much Harley.

All the best

Keith
____________________
Traxpics, track day and racing photographs - Bimota Forum - Bike performance / thrust graphs for choosing gearing

[Ben.]

you guys arent really getting his point.

saying its worth 10 grand because its quick is a justification, yes. But if you ignore this fact then why else are they 10 grand? Lot of people are just saying bikes are worth £10,000 because theyre quick.

As has been said, bikes are a lot of money for 2 reasons.

1. the same reason people pay £100,000 for a a lego man for star wars. A collectors item if you will. A lego man costs about 2p to manufacture, but people will pay more purely because they are prepared to pay that much.

2. As craigs23 says. The engineering on a bike is a lot more than a car. The materials are better as well. An ferari is not a lot of metal for £100,000 but your paying for the engineering as well.
____________________
follow my racing season
Race bike - R6
Road bike - sv650

[angryjonny]

[ram_doom]

Years and years ago a magazine showed just how value for money a 9 grand or so fireblade was, considering that in component form, using individual parts from honda, it would cost 30 odd grand...
____________________
TL1000s, KDX200

[Kickstart]

[Rowey]

You don't pay for just the materials, you pay for the R&D, the specialised machines and the manufacturing processes. To mention a tiny few.

If you were to put a 90's blade next to a 2010 blade, they may have roughly the same amount of metal and plastics in them, but the manufacturing and design will be leaps apart.

That's what you pay for.
____________________
ZX6R C6F.
Never argue with an idiot. They'll only bring you down to their level, and beat you with experience.

[chris-red]