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2011 Moto GP

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rac3r
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PostPosted: 10:38 - 08 Oct 2010    Post subject: 2011 Moto GP Reply with quote
Looks like next year should be an awesome season as usual lets hope it doesn't fail like this year did.

What are the new rules then? From what I've heard:

1000cc bikes
Modified Production engines allowed with 3 litres more fuel
^^^They are also allowed double the amount of engines
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Frost
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PostPosted: 12:17 - 08 Oct 2010    Post subject: Re: 2011 Moto GP Reply with quote
rac3r wrote:
1000cc bikes


Nope, 800cc. 1000cc is 2012

rac3r wrote:
Modified Production engines allowed with 3 litres more fuel
^^^They are also allowed double the amount of engines


Currently it's 8 engines per season, if the production engines thing goes through it would allow 10 production based engines, but the factory engine limit would remain at 8. I don't know about the fuel consumption, but i would expect a production based engine to be more frugal with it's fuel and would probably see no benefit to having more. The whole thing is a bit uncertain as it goes against the idea of MotoGP being a prototype class. Also Ducati are currently the biggest bike supplier, and they don't do a 1000cc road bike engine anymore. Even if they modified a superbike V-twin it wouldn't be competetive.
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NickD
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PostPosted: 14:24 - 08 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
While there'll be a few interesting questions answered by the 2011 season, I reckon it'll be a few years until it's anything other than dull. Thous need to come back, and the subsequent lowered costs need to attract teams to the grid. Until that filters down I reckon we're in for a rough time.
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Frost
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PostPosted: 15:05 - 08 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
As far as i'm concerned MotoGP is now the Moto2 support race Laughing
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rac3r
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PostPosted: 15:12 - 08 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Might explain why Ducati pulled out of WSB to 'concentrate on developing new models'
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c_dug
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PostPosted: 16:04 - 08 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
DaFrostyOne wrote:
As far as i'm concerned MotoGP is now the Moto2 support race Laughing


This Thumbs Up
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Frost
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PostPosted: 16:46 - 08 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
rac3r wrote:
Might explain why Ducati pulled out of WSB to 'concentrate on developing new models'


Apparently they are thinking about doing a 900 or 930 for the new rules as it will be the best balance of power Vs fuel consumption. Personally i'd just make a 1000 then have a highly adjustable fuel map on it to get the fuel to last 105% race distance, then have an overtake button that they could push when needed.
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HD
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PostPosted: 17:51 - 08 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Motogp does my heading. It is just a load of bikes that are so far from standard they may aswell not have the name of the manufacturer, but their own name.

I much prefer WSB and BSB as they both have real world bikes, just tuned a bit. Though the riders are great in MotoGp, I get more enjoyment from watching t'others.

Dunno about you guys?
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mrtEE
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PostPosted: 18:02 - 08 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Sendaman wrote:

I much prefer WSB and BSB as they both have real world bikes, just tuned a bit. Though the riders are great in MotoGp, I get more enjoyment from watching t'others.

Dunno about you guys?


So you're saying WSB bike is the same as a production bike apart from mild tuning? lolz
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HD
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PostPosted: 18:18 - 08 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yes? Rolling Eyes
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Frost
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PostPosted: 18:43 - 08 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
mrtEE wrote:
So you're saying WSB bike is the same as a production bike apart from mild tuning? lolz


They aren't allowed to change many of the internals from standard. The rules chance quite a bit on what they are allowed to do to them so it can be hard to keep up. Back when they were running 1000's ducati were allowed to do a great deal more to modify their engines for racing as they were only 2 cylinders. This made them competitive but cost ducati a fortune. When they moved up to 1200cc they had to follow the same rules as the other teams with regards to not being allowed to modify internals.
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Al
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PostPosted: 19:38 - 08 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Aprilia seemed to get away with using gear driven cams in the RSV4 with the loophole that the sell a kit for about 20 grand. You can bet they sell a lot of those kits Laughing given that its supposed to only be good for another few hp.
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mrtEE
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PostPosted: 20:03 - 08 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
DaFrostyOne wrote:
mrtEE wrote:
So you're saying WSB bike is the same as a production bike apart from mild tuning? lolz


They aren't allowed to change many of the internals from standard. s.


I wasnt disputing about changing the internals. I thought that they changed a huge amount of components compared to the production bikes OTHER than engine internals. I believe these include differnt clutch, completley different front and rear suspension, different brakes, different swingarm, different wheels, different materials on bodywork, different geometry, different exhaust systems, different etc etc .

From what the OP said it sounded like he was stating they were the same as the production bikes apart from a "mild" tune up!!
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Slacker24seve...
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PostPosted: 20:04 - 08 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Interesting article in the current Bike magazine about Jorge and how his style suits the 800s but that Rossi, Spies and Casey Moaner will prefer the 1000s as they'll give them more options Wink
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rac3r
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PostPosted: 22:49 - 08 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Most of the wsb kit is available for your standard joe to buy where is moto gp stuff is non existant
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amnesia
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PostPosted: 23:16 - 08 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Engine rules for 2012 were explained on today's Eurosport commentary.

1000cc

6 engines for teams running prototype engines

12 engines for teams running modified production engines

21 litre fuel limit for prototype teams

24 litres for production-based teams
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Wafer_Thin_Ham
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PostPosted: 19:26 - 09 Oct 2010    Post subject: Re: 2011 Moto GP Reply with quote
DaFrostyOne wrote:

Nope, 800cc. 1000cc is 2012



Currently it's 8 engines per season, if the production engines thing goes through it would allow 10 production based engines, but the factory engine limit would remain at 8. I don't know about the fuel consumption, but i would expect a production based engine to be more frugal with it's fuel and would probably see no benefit to having more. The whole thing is a bit uncertain as it goes against the idea of MotoGP being a prototype class. Also Ducati are currently the biggest bike supplier, and they don't do a 1000cc road bike engine anymore. Even if they modified a superbike V-twin it wouldn't be competetive.


Currently it's 6 engines per season in Moto GP.

The Moto GP director also met with the head of the Tech 3 team at Silverstone to consider whether to let the 1000cc bikes be eligible a year earlier. So next year would allow both 800 and 1000cc, rather like the hand over in 2002 from two stroke to four stroke.

However nothing's been mentioned since then so the best guess is that it'll be fully implemented in 2012.
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Deckx
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PostPosted: 12:44 - 10 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
think everyone is interested on the Rossi move to Ducati... reckon he could pull it off if everyone was starting on a 1000cc development engine.. but would be a miracle if he won on the 800cc straight up.. having said that the guy is genius so.....
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prowler
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PostPosted: 14:24 - 10 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
With Ducati being the fastest bike on the track and rossi the best at braking i think he's got a great chance at winning on the Ducati next year.
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Rob W
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PostPosted: 16:20 - 10 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
prowler wrote:
With Ducati being the fastest bike on the track and rossi the best at braking i think he's got a great chance at winning on the Ducati next year.


I thought Honda's were quickest this year?

I still think Rossi will win it though, the guy is an absolute legend. I dont think anything is out of his reach really (apart from this years title).
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Acemastr
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PostPosted: 16:55 - 10 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Moto-GP is like Formula 1, completely different to road bikes... but the technology works its way down to production bikes for us, USD forks and Traction Control for example... it isn't designed to be like road bikes, the same way Formula 1 isn't supposed to be anything like a ford mondeo...
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Frost
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PostPosted: 17:11 - 10 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Deckx wrote:
think everyone is interested on the Rossi move to Ducati... reckon he could pull it off if everyone was starting on a 1000cc development engine.. but would be a miracle if he won on the 800cc straight up.. having said that the guy is genius so.....


See the last race? 11th place to victory, i'd say he's good enough to win races on a Honda / Yamaha or Ducati. He'd probably be a podium regular on a Tech 3.

prowler wrote:
With Ducati being the fastest bike on the track and rossi the best at braking i think he's got a great chance at winning on the Ducati next year.


The ducati has been pants in the hands of anybody bar stoner. Stoner is an amazing rider, but he's been struggling to keep the ducati rubber side down for most of the season so clearly something is up with it. These problems could well persist for Rossi and ruin his season.
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Wafer_Thin_Ham
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PostPosted: 17:20 - 10 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
DaFrostyOne wrote:
These problems could well persist for Rossi and ruin his season.


Although you're right, I'd be surprised.

The Yamaha was a dog when he first got his hands on it, and he won first time out. I see no reason why he can't do it again.

IMO the Ducati seems to be perfectly fast but lacking in feel.
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rac3r
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PostPosted: 18:19 - 10 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
The Ducati will be awesome! Cool
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Frost
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PostPosted: 19:52 - 10 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Big_Ham wrote:

The Yamaha was a dog when he first got his hands on it, and he won first time out. I see no reason why he can't do it again.


He is good at developing a bike... But Lorenzo is a damn good rider with many years of experience getting full benefit of the developed Yamaha. Rossi & Burgess will be starting from scratch with that Ducati. The Ducati uses a carbon frame which i suspect is the cause of many of stoner and others problems. When Yamaha brought out a new frame a few years ago they had problems with 'chatter' Which is essentially too little sideways frame flex. When leaned passed 45 degrees the suspension is useless as it's on it's side, so frame flex is needed to absorb the bumps. Box section carbon like the ducati uses for it's frame is about the most ridged thing you could ever make. I think their system of compensating for this is the cause of the problem in certain circumstances.

I expect next season will start promising for rossi, go to shit, recover a bit and we will all expect him back at his best, then go to shit again baffling us all. He's making the move at the right time though, not just because of Lorenzo but because he and burgess will have a year to get the bike sorted before the new engines come in. Ducati seem to get an early power advantage on the new engine reg's due to the low power stealing of the desmo system.
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