US 'special' forces reputation takes another blow

map · Mr Calendar Joined: 14 Jun 2004 Karma :

Appears in the recent attempt to release the aid worker hostage in Afghanistan she may have been killed by grenade thrown by the US forces.

There's going to be a US/UK investigation.
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pepperami · Super Spammer Joined: 17 Jan 2010 Karma :

Watched the news last night and they reported that the "special forces" did`nt get to her on time, and this gave her captors time to detonate a device that was strapped to her.

I don`t know what to believe?
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Phoenix · Twisted Firestarter Joined: 01 Aug 2002 Karma :

I read the news report on saturday and it said that she was killed by her captors not the rescue effort, not true? Oh how i'm shocked.

map · Mr Calendar Joined: 14 Jun 2004 Karma :

pepperami · Super Spammer Joined: 17 Jan 2010 Karma :

Hmmm? it`s beginning to look like the Gung-ho! ham fisted brigade were sent in Sad

Easy for me to say, sitting here, a million miles away?
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L4Isoside · World Chat Champion Joined: 08 Mar 2010 Karma :

Usually I can understand why special forces may mess something small up here and there, you know, running in to a room full of terrorists and you have split seconds to kill or be killed but to blow up the hostage...well that's the type of thing I do by accident on COD Laughing

Kickstart · The Oracle Joined: 04 Feb 2002 Karma :

Hi

While it would be nice if such operations were done with surgical precision, that hostages land up killed by the rescuers sometimes doesn't surprise me in the slightest. Hardly like the hostage is going to want to draw attention to themselves in the assault when some of those likely to hear them are going to want to kill them.

All the best

Keith
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The Artist · Super Spammer Joined: 06 Jan 2008 Karma :

Look at it this way, she was going to die, they tried to stop this happening and it failed.

Shit happens. If it was someone I knew that died, sure I would be pissed off and think irrationally but I think they went in there with the intention of saving her, they didn't, that is war.

chrisw · World Chat Champion Joined: 24 Apr 2006 Karma :

MarJay · But it's British! Joined: 15 Sep 2003 Karma :

There aren't many 'special forces' around the world that are that 'special', especially when they stray away from slightly more specialised 'green army' operations.

The SAS are good, but they specifically train for hostage rescue and counterterrorism in this way, whereas in the US the FBI handle that kind of work. The Green Berets (as far as I can tell) are more like the SAS of David Stirling in world war 2. They roam behind enemy lines causing disruption via sabotage and reconnaisance. They don't do much of the hostage type stuff that the SAS do.

I bet they like to think they are good at that stuff, but the simple fact is, unless you train for it you can't be very good at it.
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GhostRider · World Chat Champion Joined: 31 Jan 2008 Karma :

Speaking of hostages, whatever happened to that old couple who were kidnapped by Somali Pirates and had a £1 million ransom put on their heads? Have they been cured of their nasty oxygen habit yet?

scorps · World Chat Champion Joined: 29 Jan 2007 Karma :

To be honest, if i were a hostage and I was told I had a choice between being rescued by the Americans or digging my way out with a spoon........................................................... Thinking

desert or teaspoon, happy with either

Shocked

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map · Mr Calendar Joined: 14 Jun 2004 Karma :

pa_broon74 · World Chat Champion Joined: 28 Mar 2006 Karma :

Being as I am a consumate amateur when it comes to hostage rescue, I would ask why they used grenades at all. They knew she was somewhere in the vicinity, chucking grenades around is going to be high risk is it not?

I assume they used flash/bang type things, but why proper grenades?

Usually in Afghanistan if no one coughs up, they hostage gets their head chopped off, they're rarely let go.

Thumbs Up

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MarJay · But it's British! Joined: 15 Sep 2003 Karma :

colin1 · Captain Safety Joined: 17 Feb 2005 Karma :

For me, the issue is that tribal leaders were doing negotiation with the hostage takers, and had specifically asked NATO forces not to go in, as they thought they had a chance.

In the past negotiations sometimes do work. I suspect that Americans prefer brute force to diplomacy every time.

I dont know if negotians would have worked, but brute force certainly didnt.

However ultimately, she knew the risks of being there, even if she did enjoy doing good works. Her choice. So cant blame the Americans too much. You could argue she was responsible for the deaths of the hostage takers aswell as herself. They wouldnt have been able to resist taking a westerner hostage, if they had a chance. Lets not forget, they are trying to resist an invading force.
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Frost · World Chat Champion Joined: 26 May 2004 Karma :

If you've taken a hostage and are threatening to kill her, then you're prepared to do it. If the special forces are attempting a rescue it won't be like the movies where they grab the girl and flee with you in chase. The special forces will kill your guys silently until the alarm is raised when they will start killing them faster and louder. Any left alive will be captured. So once the special forces arrive you either surrender and hope for the best, or you kill the infidel prisoner and await either your 40 virgins or capture. If captured you claim it wasn't you, that you weren't in charge the dead guy was and that you aren't a hardcore extremist that's why you surrendered.

All in all a pretty shitty situation for the hostage and the rescuers. Rescues are always more likely to go wrong than right.

bootsbiker · Traffic Copper Joined: 07 Jan 2009 Karma :

colin1 · Captain Safety Joined: 17 Feb 2005 Karma :

It's been officially announced that the hostage 'may have been' killed by the american troops. So bit naughty to say otherwise initially.

Surprising that they have now admitted they may have been directly responsible for her death. I'm surprised they admitted it, not that it happened.

Clumsy idiots, bit puzzled as to why they admitted fucking up. Not the normal way things are done.

To be honest I doubt that the SAS would have fucked it up. Using fragmentation grenades if you are wanting to bring back hostages alive, just seems stupid rather than an innocent mistake. Maybe they were more keen on punishing the hostage takers with zero american casualties, than taking the hostage alive.
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Paxovasa · World Chat Champion Joined: 25 Apr 2010 Karma :

Americans always shoot first and ask questions later. Or it is better known as "friendly fire".
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Itchy · Super Spammer Joined: 07 Apr 2005 Karma :

colin1 · Captain Safety Joined: 17 Feb 2005 Karma :

Negotians can result in release with no concessions given.

American troops have lots of experience of using maximum firepower and aggression to minimise American casualties, so I dont think they would be able to realise that if you want to get someone alive, you might have to adjust the strategy.

Mostly though, yeah I think the hostage was not the main priority. Quite surprised they didnt just blow up the site with missiles from a passing drone.
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Kickstart · The Oracle Joined: 04 Feb 2002 Karma :

Hi

As Itchy says, pay a ransom and you just encourage more such situations.

It is a shame if a hostage does die but given the situation "mistakes" are not unexpected. More distasteful is the wrong info that seems to have been originally given out.

In some ways worse if any other innocent person in the area is killed. All that would do is create more support for the insurgents.

All the best

Keith
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The Original Muzza · World Chat Champion Joined: 09 Jan 2009 Karma :

If I was a hostage I would rather be blown up than be given the Ken Bigley treatment.

And were I a terrorist, I'd rather be blown up than be given the American ~~torture~~ interrogation treatment.
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MarJay · But it's British! Joined: 15 Sep 2003 Karma :

Robin Horsfall on the BBC news said that using a frag grenade in a building where there are hostages is monumentally stupid.

I think he's one of the guys on the balcony in the Princes Gate footage that is rolled out every time the SAS is mentioned.
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