Shifting methods...

[PizzImperfect]

Hi,

As i've learnt so much already from these forums i want to throw another question out there..

Whats the best method to shift gears to get the fastest response from the bike? I may have worded that ridiculously..

I shift the standard way however i want to beat a mate from point 'A' to point 'B' (but we're not racing of course, that's dangerous........... *cough*) and was wondering if you have any tips?
We're both on 125's so its not exactly blisteringly fast but i must get the upper hand!

Thanks all

[ian789]

Nick his keys at the lights?

[pinkyfloyd]

Change up just before the engine explodes
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illuminateTHEmind wrote: I am just more evolved than most of you guys... this allows me to pick of things quickly which would have normally taken the common man years to master
Hockeystorm65:.well there are childish arguments...there are very childish arguments.....there are really stupid childish arguments and now there are......Pinkfloyd arguments!
Teflon-Mike:I think I agree with just about all Pinky has said.

[PizzImperfect]

Haha.. I hit his kill switch a couple of times. I thought it was hilarious as i rode off... Then he got at my keys the b*stard...

[Acemastr]

clutchless upshift, and don't miss a gear
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2017 KTM 350 XC-F - 2014 Yamaha R6 - 2005 Yamaha YZ125
2016 Toyota Tacoma Limited

[PizzImperfect]

I'll google the clutchless shift now.. though i'm guessin it's self explanatory?
When getting from point A to B quickly (but not racing...) i usually let the revs hit top (as you said until its dying for a change) before changing...

I'm a bit scared of not using my clutch incase for some reason i stop dead... and i'm guessing after doing that a few times i'd need a new clutch?

[DrDonnyBrago]

[PizzImperfect]

So the key is to let off the throttle when upshifting... Completely? Or just enough?

I'll give it a go tonight and let you know wether i still have a bike tomorrow haha.

And i'm guessing this would apply to 3rd..4th...5th..?

[The Artist]

When you a nearing the redline ready to change gear, apply pressure on the gear lever upwards, don't jolt it, just ease pressure on it. As you do this decrease throttle position and when the speeds of the gears match up, it should just slot into the next gear.

No need for the clutch. It is adviseable you use the clutch going down gears but some people don't.

The whole clutchless upshift procedure should take less than a second.

[PizzImperfect]

Right... haha... Thats gonna be fun.
Touch wood i won't hear anything grinding

[DrDonnyBrago]

[supZ]

the artist has basically described it but yeh.. be a little faster than 'ease the throttle off'

basically, as he said, apply pressure to the pedal then as you hit the red line just flick the throttle, 1/2 and back to full again as quick as you can. the instant you do the pedal will move and engage the next gear. move your foot back down away from the ledal so it properly engages and apply pressure again for the next shift.

even if you're pootling around, done right this is a very smooth way of changing gear.

going down gear, use the clutch but the moment you pull the clutch in blip the throttle then change gear and let the clutch back out again (dont just dump it but let it out quickly and smoothly)

blipping the throttle helps match your revs to engine speed to avoid jolts of deceleration as the wheel speed attempts ot match engine speed. this also helps stop your wheel locking up when banging down the gears.

the trick is to master braking and blipping at the same time, this is why lever position is so important. i normally 1 or 2 finger brake and use the rest of my hand to control the throttle
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CBR954RR - Daily toy
CBR600RR - Trackbike

[PizzImperfect]

Yet again fantastic advice, thanks guys.

[Kal]

Clutchless up shifting will save you hundreths of a second on Supersports bikes...

On a 14.6bhp 125cc machine the jockeys weight and aerodynamics are going to make a bigger difference.

Take a dump before racing him.
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Kal...
I Like To Hoon It Hoon It I Like To Hoon It Hoon It I Like To Hoon It Hoon It Ya Like To (HOON IT!).
1984 GB250 Clubman,1983 CB250N Superdream, 1999 GPZ500S

[PizzImperfect]

Haha.. Sound advice. I usually get my chin down on the tank.. lookin to save as much time as possible!

Can i clarify... When i put the bit of pressure on the gear lever.. and flick the throttle off and on.. will it pop into gear itself? Or will i have to give the gear lever a little extra push into gear?

[ollieholt]

should just click in but you can add a little more pressure just as your doing it. you can even try for a giggle the kill switch gear change. same thing but flick your killswitch off and on again very quickly whilkst putting pressure on the lever. its teh same as throttling down but means you can keep said throttle wide open, works best on bikes with a handy kill switch and only really works on carbed bikes. really doesnt work on a gixxer we had in stock a bit back thought i would have a play on it, the system took too long to start again after the switch was turned back on. it works on teh same principal as a quick shifter but is only of use if the kill switch is an easy thumb reach away and operated quickly.
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< This? Well this is just a day brightner.

[PizzImperfect]

Sound
I look forward to trying this out on the way home tonight.

[The Tot]

Aah the good killswitch backfire! Never seemed to master them on my IL4's! Was dead fun on the XR! Best done in tunnels or under bridges.

My preference is to use the clutch on 1st -2nd to avoid going into neutral. On some bike's transmissions you'd need a HEFTY BOOT to get it into 2nd. Again see Donny's point. Otherwise you'd be left with a LOAD of revs and no drive... Very embarrassing in town. If you're relatively new to this malarky, you probably won't have a feel as to how much pressure to exert using the top of your foot. So MY rule is 1st->2nd use clutch. Open season on any gears.

Downshifts I always use the clutch. I've tried clutchless downshifts following that Twist of the Wrist 2 DVD by Keith Code and I wasn't particularly happy with the smoothness of it. Supz's method is ideal.

It also depends on what mood I'm in as to whether I use the clutch or not. The ideal point to shift is just when you hit peak torque if you want fast acceleration (and NOT as most people think when it's touching the redline).

But clutchless shifts ARE necessary if you're popping wheelies and want to get it into 2nd... 3rd etc. The moment you use the clutch, your disengaging the drive to the chain and rear wheel.
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The Tot 2019 Z1000SX - 2007 R1
Never argue with autism

[lihp]

Clutchless shifting does save time, but pre-loading the lever, can over time bend the shift forks.

I'm not saying, doing this occasionally, will trash the engine in 2 shifts. But over a prolonged period of time, if you keep doing it on every shift, you will end up bending the forks, which will result in gears jumping out sometimes, not going in to gear etc.

First time you try it, do it at lower revs and from 2nd to 3rd. 1st to 2nd is a bit more difficult as there's a bigger difference in the gear ratios and longer movement to get it in.

[M1ghtyDUck]

If I were to give a class on how to clutchless shift it would go something like this:

"You know when you change gear? Do that, but don't use the clutch. Right then! See you next week when we'll be teaching you how to wipe your own ass."

[The Wobbly Orange]

And being on a 125 is good to get the practice in. if you over-rev when blipping down chances are you aint gonna get too much of a jolt. Don't have the first go when hairing along but mid revs are a good place to start.

When upshifting on my GSXR without clutch it's a lot more compliant to do so above 6k rpm. Below 6k I find clutchless upshifts to be less smooth.Of course all bikes are different so the only way to find out is by getting out there on a nice day and trying it.

For me when blipping the throttle when braking I tend to use the outside three fingers to apply brake pressure while twisting the grip with index finger and thumb. Again practice practice practice. Eventually it will become muscle memory and you will no longer think...In clutch...Rotate throttle til revs approx match speed...click down...release clutch...rotate throttle to stop.

you will simply think ...downchange....wowee that was fast, how did that happen?

Even if revs do not exactly match (they rarely do) getting it much closer improves downchanges significantly. And a peaky 125 (assuming 2 stroke) makes this oh so rewarding. Some of best experiences in whole riding lifetime were on my first little 125 nailing it sweet and carrying maximum momentum.

Assuming 125 four stroke the gains are somewhat less however it is still good practice for moving onto more powerful and advanced machinery.

Ride safe.
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People tell me I am lovely. How wrong they are!

[supZ]

[PizzImperfect]

Can't beat these voices of experience.

Guys i had a right fun ride home today. I did it pretty much perfect first time with the advice i'd had.

Couple of times it wasn't as smooth as i would have liked but not one grind, and the feeling of fluent and constant acceleration was awesome.. Just need to get a bigger ride now.

I'm on a four stroke 125, but i still felt a good kick when i nailed it perfectly.
Really just made me love biking more, always stuff to learn and f*cking fun once you've learnt it.

[carl_easykart]

from a motocross background the faster was to always powershirt keep the trottle pined and just quick flick of the clutch and up a gear. may be diffrent on road bikes

[lihp]