Mobile phone tracking (stolen bikes)

[loply]

Hi,
I didnt want to hijack Chills' thread about his stolen CBR, im sure having his thread hijacked is the last thing he needs right now.

Anyway, about the idea of using mobile phone tracking services to help get a stolen bike back.

Incase anyone isnt aware, I think a recent change in law was responsible for several "mobile phone tracking" companies appearing, who can show you the location of a mobile phone down to a claimed 50ft on a map on their website - see https://www.traceamobile.com/ https://www.locatemobiles.com/ https://www.mapamobile.com/

My idea is to put a mobile inside some kind of sealed bag and hide it in the airbox, fuel tank, frame or somewhere else on the bike. I would permanently plug the mobile into a charger cable, and run that to the edge of the bike somewhere with a connector so it could be plugged in to the mains and charged once a week or so.

People have expressed concerns for which Id like to reply:

1) The bike will be stripped and the phone removed
Youll usually realise the bike is nicked within a few hours, possibly within 5 minutes. Not to mention how many bikes are nicked by joy riders, not efficient criminal gangs?

2) The battery will run out
My phone lasts about 7-8 days if its not being used for calls. Some kind of charging system would be easy to wire up.

3) Dangerous to have inside fuel tank
Im pretty sure itd be fine if the phone was airtight inside some kind of permanent container.

Anyhow I accept that it /might/ not work but IMHO there is a reasonable chance it will - Good enough for it to be worth a £19.99 pay as you go mobile phone.

Once I pass my test and pick up a bike Ill give it a go and let you know how well it works.

[Sparks!]

[Frost]

you can buy tracking devices which you place on your car/bike. when reported nicked the police can use the tracking device to locate it.

[loply]

any idea how much they are?

Im pretty sure not using phones in petrol stations is an exageration of the danger. Is the radiation /really/ going to interfere with the electronics and make the pumps spray petrol everywhere?

[Frost]

I seem to rememebr them being around £200, however they were mainly for cars, which suggests power consumption is a little much for a bike

[McJamweasel]

[Big Pete]

The ignition risk from mobiles is not from emitted radiation, its from the piezo crystal actuators used in the ringers and the vibrator motors. They can generate enough energy for ignition of petrol vapour. The crystals are the same sort as used in fag lighters.
____________________
Trust me, I`m an engineer
GarageOfPower.co.uk

[Phoenix]

You could probably rig one upto the battery (tho a phone charger constantly charging is gonna draing your battery quite seriously). Even if you hide it well, if a thief is determined enough to nick your bike while its chained/garaged etc then they're clearly pros and will have the bike stripped and mobile phone will be destroyed before you even wake up in the morning.

[loply]

[Kickstart]

Hi

The mobile phone idea might work, but the chances of it surviving in the petrol tank are minimal (it would be difficult finding a petrol proof bag that would not melt and would allow the lead for the charger in). Inside the airbox might work but you still have the problem of petrol fumes.

Remember that petrol stations are against mobile phones but many of them have a mobile phone aerial in their signs!

All the best

Keith
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Traxpics, track day and racing photographs - Bimota Forum - Bike performance / thrust graphs for choosing gearing

[Gazanimal]

BigPete's right,it's not the fuel itself that's the problem it's the vapours.

My missus is a petrol station manager for *Safeways/Morrisons/Sainsbury's (*delete where appropriate) & she has a hard time trying to make people understand why they shouldn't use a mobile phone on a forecourt.

The best way to deal with them is she doesn't authorise their pump until they shut off their phones.

Ignorance is bliss in some peoples eyes.

[primalcarl]

There must be easier alternatives
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Bikes: Honda S-Wing > Honda Varadero XL125V > Yamaha XJ6N > Honda Silverwing> CBR600rr > VFR 800 FI > R1200gs

[d9720267]

If it's the ringer or the vibration mechanism that's likely to spark, then you can simply switch these off on the phone.

What I'm not sure about is how exactly do the police track the mobile? Can they tell its exact position, or just the 'cell' it's in (i.e. the nearest mobile phone mast). Obviously the phone needs to be on, but I assume no-one needs to answer it for it to be tracked (unless you want to politely ask the thieves for your bike back ).

[mazza]

Good post Ioply.

Your idea is a good one but just a bit undeveloped. The whole idea of a means by which mobile phone technology could be used to either alert approriate receivers or disable the vehicle if stolen is worthy of much greater attention.

Would it be too much for every (yes, every) bike manufacturer (and vehicle manufacturer come to that) to implement some kind of cut out mechanism or silent/discreet beaconing system to make the theft unsuccessful based on simple gsm technology? As Ioply, you've said, just a simple call to your number could disable the electrics or beacon to any police car that it's stolen. Simple, so simple in fact I'm wondering what's being missed here.

Whether it goes into a fuel tank or not is by the way.... by the way

How about some more practical ideas on this thread. Maybe someone important might notice it's potential. You never know.
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Laugh!? I nearly bought a drink!

[loply]

mazza,

A local kill switch - basically a hidden on/off switch somewhere on the bike - is easy to wire up. Clever ones can even be made involving hidden magnetic switches and whatnot. But it doesnt stop them taking the bike, and doesnt help you get it back.

Sure, theyll have a cabbaged bike, but youve still lost it and arent going to get it back (unless they dump it because its useless).

You dont need the police to track a mobile phone, there are companies who do it for cheap. Few quid a month. Supposedly accurate - One company claims 100m radius, another says even less. Dunno how true though.

[Sadie]

This could be interesting.

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/040728/80/ez09s.html
____________________
With experience comes age.

[map]

I don't know exactly what it is but I came across this link on eBay

https://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=294&item=5711031212&rd=1

Anyone brave enought to pay money and find out?

[Big Pete]

technically its not a difficult thing to implement a phone based system. However, for a GPS system (which is passive) the antenna needs to see at least 3 satelites, which can be tricky, especially in urban environments. For radio triangulation (an active system)the system needs to emit a strong enough signal long enough for the tracking station to lock on and triangulate. Any sensible crook will be able to locate, detect and probably jam/swamp the signal.

The biggest drawback is cost tho, the alarm unit electronics would cost £300-400 (phones are sold at a loss because the operators make money on the calls), plus a subscription fee to who ever runs the base units.

A comparable unit for cars (Tracker ) runs about £800 for the system plus a monthly sub (I believe)
____________________
Trust me, I`m an engineer
GarageOfPower.co.uk

[hustler]

Its a good idea, but a tracker is so much easier. The Tracker Retrieve (cheapest) is around £300 installed with life time subscription.

Plus you get a police response and of course a nice saving on your bike insurance.

Regarding mobile phones in petrol stations - if you watched that tv program BRAINIAC: SCIENCE ABUSE you will know they conducted an experiment on the subject.

They saturated the inside of a caravan with petrol and petrol containers. They then placed approximately 10 mobile phones inside the caravan to test the theory ... from a safe distance they called all 10 mobiles simultaneously and strangely enough nothing happened, no sparks no explosions.

They subsequently used static electricity from some lemon dressed in man made fibres to blow it up via a long wire!
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As I said to that guy with the crutches and full camouflage gear, you can hide but you can't run.

[map]

I apologise for reviving an old thread. It was bugging me where I'd seen something on this and eventually found it on the MCN site - link if you click here. Appears it's about £500.

[Minky_monkey]

We've just had RAC trakstar fitted to our new recovery truck. It works on basically a GPS system that is operated by O2.

The kit was £300 plus fitting. Plus £120 yearly subscription fee.

Obviously as time progresses these devices will become smaller and cheaper.

[Wave2k]

its an good idea just too expensive
if they made it cheaper maybe car crime would drop
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Ducati 1299 Panigale
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[Minky_monkey]

We've looked at it this way.

The government`s thinking of bringing in road charges.
The insurance companies have suddenly started to ask for all new commercial vehicles to be fitted with a tracking device.

Coincidence?? I think not.........

BUT, if you don't have it fitted you're not insured against theft. And when you're looking at 50grand a truck (and that isn't expensive) you've got no choice.

[map]