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G
The Voice of Reason



Joined: 02 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 16:24 - 19 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
nixon wrote:

Your white line analogy, it may very well be safe to cross the white line, but the bottom line is the white line is there and the law states that you must not cross it, if you decide that you want to abide by it, then by all means cross it, but don't cry about getting caught and fined for it, because it is against the law.

So would you be fine being fined for every single thing you did that broke a law?
The reality is that most-everyone breaks the law quite a lot in a variety of different ways.
The system works because the law is not absolute, big brother in fact does not catch everything - that to some degree the 'spirit of the law' rather than the exact word of the law is what is enforced.
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Kris
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PostPosted: 16:29 - 19 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
G wrote:
If they caught people that were doing dangerous things, rather than things just 'against the law', then I could quite understand it.

For instance in some cases crossing double white lines may be dangerous, but in others it's perfectly safe.
By trying to blindly enforce the law, rather than consider the 'spirit of the law'; you diminish the reasons for having the law and people's respect in those laws.


I have to agree with G on this one; it's the underhand policing of multiple annoying traffic measures which undermine any 'good' these camera cars could supposedly do.

Anyway, if these guys want to lend a hand to the Council and stop other motorists from contravening these SOOPA CRITICAL (lol) regulations then where's the problem?

Of course the private firm NSL working for the council would only complain if they were hiding behind large vehicles to generate revenue - and they wouldn't do that would they...

Rolling Eyes
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Ste
Not Work Safe



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PostPosted: 16:57 - 19 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Esinem, when people go out camera car hunting, do they wear the NTBPT high vis vests?
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swampy
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PostPosted: 17:02 - 19 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hetzer wrote:
These scum knowingly set out, not to prevent accidents but to illegally raise revenue by setting traps with the express intention of catching people accidentally speeding. And you're defending them?! And attacking somebody who seeks to expose them?! What the fuck are you on?


I should also imagine that they also catch a fair few people who are also deliberately speeding and think they get away with it..

Dont get me wrong, I've got no love for scameras, but it would disingenuous to claim that everyone they caught was accidentally speeding.
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Paxovasa
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PostPosted: 17:05 - 19 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ste wrote:
Esinem, when people go out camera car hunting, do they wear the NTBPT high vis vests?


This should answer your question

https://forum.notobikeparkingtax.com/ntbpt-events/schunt-saturday-16th-october/?action=dlattach;attach=4334;image
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G
The Voice of Reason



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PostPosted: 17:11 - 19 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
swampy wrote:

I should also imagine that they also catch a fair few people who are also deliberately speeding and think they get away with it..

I didn't think they did anything with speeding.
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swampy
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PostPosted: 17:20 - 19 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
G wrote:
swampy wrote:

I should also imagine that they also catch a fair few people who are also deliberately speeding and think they get away with it..

I didn't think they did anything with speeding.


Dunno if they do or don't as I'm not in Lahndon and couldn't really care less.. My post was a response to Hetz suggesting that they set out to catch people accidentally speeding, which tends to discount the fact they also catch motorists who are deliberatley speeding (much more likely IMHO).
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instigator
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PostPosted: 17:22 - 19 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Useful site. If that was around 18 months ago, I wouldn't have been snapped by the NW6 West End Lane car. The easy bit around it is of course to turn left at that junction and then do an immediate u-turn. Laughing
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bazza
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PostPosted: 17:27 - 19 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
swampy wrote:
My post was a response to Hetz suggesting that they set out to catch people accidentally speeding,


FFS, nobody "accidentally" speeds.
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Esinem This post is not being displayed because it has a low rating (Spam). Unhide this post / all posts.

Esinem
Borekit Bruiser



Joined: 07 Jun 2010
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PostPosted: 18:13 - 19 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
G wrote:
swampy wrote:

I should also imagine that they also catch a fair few people who are also deliberately speeding and think they get away with it..

I didn't think they did anything with speeding.


CEO's have no authority to enforce speed limits. They are restricted to parking and minor traffic infringements, e.g. ignoring banned turns etc. However, you can be sure that they will seek to use such technology to raise money any way they can dream up.
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Hetzer
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PostPosted: 18:16 - 19 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
bazza wrote:
swampy wrote:
My post was a response to Hetz suggesting that they set out to catch people accidentally speeding,


FFS, nobody "accidentally" speeds.


Well, that's your credibility straight down the shitter then.
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bazza
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PostPosted: 18:52 - 19 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hetzer wrote:
bazza wrote:
FFS, nobody "accidentally" speeds.


Well, that's your credibility straight down the shitter then.


Oh woe. I has been judged by the internets. My life is over.
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JAMSXR
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PostPosted: 18:53 - 19 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
bazza wrote:
swampy wrote:
My post was a response to Hetz suggesting that they set out to catch people accidentally speeding,


FFS, nobody "accidentally" speeds.


Laughing

Of course people accidentally speed. Not sure how you worked that out?
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bazza
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PostPosted: 19:06 - 19 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
JAMSXR wrote:
Of course people accidentally speed.


Really? Excluding mechanical/electronic component failure, how do you accidentally speed? I go over the limit all the time, but never by accident, so I'm keen to hear an explanation for this apparently common phenomenon.

Inattention, lack of concentration and poor situational awareness aren't valid excuses, by the way.
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Paxovasa
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PostPosted: 19:09 - 19 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'll supply the popcorn Pass the popcorn Razz
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G
The Voice of Reason



Joined: 02 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 19:10 - 19 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
bazza wrote:

Inattention, lack of concentration and poor situational awareness aren't valid excuses, by the way.

Are 'accidents' though.
But, yes - if you're paying attention, it's quite easy to avoid 'accidents' in most cases.
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Hetzer
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PostPosted: 19:13 - 19 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
bazza wrote:
JAMSXR wrote:
Of course people accidentally speed.


Really? Excluding mechanical/electronic component failure, how do you accidentally speed? I go over the limit all the time, but never by accident, so I'm keen to hear an explanation for this apparently common phenomenon.

Inattention, lack of concentration and poor situational awareness aren't valid excuses, by the way.


Oh. Anything else you'd like to pre-exclude in your belated definition of what constitutes an accident? Rolling Eyes

One of the biggest criticisms of 'safety' cameras is how they force you to always be looking to the speedo instead on concentrating on the road. Well, consider why? And when you've worked that out consider also that during moments when all concentration is absolutely needed on the road ones speed will often exceed the limit. Accidentally.
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Bloke
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Joined: 06 Aug 2010
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PostPosted: 19:21 - 19 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hetzer wrote:


Oh. Anything else you'd like to pre-exclude in your belated definition of what constitutes an accident? Rolling Eyes

One of the biggest criticisms of 'safety' cameras is how they force you to always be looking to the speedo instead on concentrating on the road. Well, consider why? And when you've worked that out consider also that during moments when all concentration is absolutely needed on the road ones speed will often exceed the limit. Accidentally.


Lol are you really that shit at driving/riding?

I can happily sit at a set speed without being to stare at my speedo like a retard. Rolling Eyes

occassional glances yes, constantly watching it no.
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bazza
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PostPosted: 19:28 - 19 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hetzer wrote:
consider also that during moments when all concentration is absolutely needed on the road ones speed will often exceed the limit. Accidentally.


If you're going too fast to assess your situation in order to react to changes, you're going too fast. Nothing accidental there, just poor riding/judgement.

Next?
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Nixon
Brolly Dolly



Joined: 23 Jun 2007
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PostPosted: 19:33 - 19 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
G wrote:
nixon wrote:

Your white line analogy, it may very well be safe to cross the white line, but the bottom line is the white line is there and the law states that you must not cross it, if you decide that you want to abide by it, then by all means cross it, but don't cry about getting caught and fined for it, because it is against the law.

So would you be fine being fined for every single thing you did that broke a law?
The reality is that most-everyone breaks the law quite a lot in a variety of different ways.
The system works because the law is not absolute, big brother in fact does not catch everything - that to some degree the 'spirit of the law' rather than the exact word of the law is what is enforced.


No its nothing to do with spirit of the law its the fact that you have got away with it for so long now someone wants to enforce the law that you should be abiding by your crying about it!

Wrong place at the wrong time just doesnt cut it, if you want to break the laws then don't throw a hissy fit when someone punishes you.

I regularly break some laws, but that doesn't mean that if and when i get caught im going to claim superiority and claim the laws dont apply to me or that because last week it wasn't enforced i can break the law this week without it being enforced.

If you want to break the law then you have to be prepared to get caught and to pay for it! and if you get caught doing something stupid like crossing a solid white line to save yourself a whole 3 seconds then more fool you!
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JAMSXR
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PostPosted: 19:34 - 19 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
bazza wrote:
Hetzer wrote:
consider also that during moments when all concentration is absolutely needed on the road ones speed will often exceed the limit. Accidentally.


If you're going too fast to assess your situation in order to react to changes, you're going too fast. Nothing accidental there, just poor riding/judgement.

Next?


That's got nothing to do with speeding though, speeding is going over the maximum speed limit that the local council/goverment has decided. Is quite easy to accidentally go over the speed limit by a few mph.

Youre just looking for an argument...
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Last edited by JAMSXR on 19:51 - 19 Oct 2010; edited 1 time in total
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calyx
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PostPosted: 19:44 - 19 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
I don't remember I completed a journey without breaking the laws.
Do I owe government 15years riding x 340 days x £60 = £306.000?
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G
The Voice of Reason



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PostPosted: 19:55 - 19 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
No its nothing to do with spirit of the law its the fact that you have got away with it for so long now someone wants to enforce the law that you should be abiding by your crying about it!

Yes, it absolutely is to do with that.
For instance the policeman that stopped me while doing a wheelie, but accepted that it was a safe place and didn't decide to prosecute.
The laws against doing such things are to protect you endangering yourself and others. It was fairly obvious I was doing neither of those, so I was let off with a friendly word.
If laws were absolute, the system would crumble.

Quote:
Wrong place at the wrong time just doesnt cut it, if you want to break the laws then don't throw a hissy fit when someone punishes you.

So, again I ask:
So would you be fine being fined for every single thing you did that broke a law?
I really suspect not. I suspect you'd be seriously annoyed as probably your life was pretty ruined.
Reality is that the system works because every law is not enforced strictly. The system could not work if it was.

Mass-fining systems such as these do not take account of what people are doing and equally punish those that are being safe as those that are not.
Those that are breaking the law more (fake details on v5 for instance) get away with scot-free.

calyx: that's presuming you only break the law once per trip and that it's the minimum.
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bazza
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PostPosted: 20:01 - 19 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
JAMSXR wrote:
Thats got nothing to do with speeding though, speeding is going over the maximum speed limit that the local council/goverment has decided.

Youre just looking for an argument...


Not at all. I'm genuinely interested in this "accidental" speeding claim. Every time I go over the limit, I know I'm doing it and can justify my own reasons for doing it - to myself, at least.

I maintain that pretty much everyone else does the same thing and this "accidental" speeding excuse is complete and utter bollocks. Nothing I've seen yet has changed my mind.

So, without getting sidetracked into questions of whether speed limits are arbitrary or purely revenue-driven - most of them are - who on BCF "accidentally" speeds?
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