Police chase induced DEATHS

bubbleflap · Borekit Bruiser Joined: 09 Jun 2004 Karma :

I've been thinking a lot about the little policies of the police, especially how they chase people that try and escape them.

I believe their actions and justifications are very wrong a lot of the time. For example, the police decide to pull a motorist over for a broken brake light, and proceed to siren the motorist. The motorist speeds away (for reasons unknown) and it turns into a full blown chase. The reasons for him doing this are unknown, all the police are aware of is a broken brake light.

There are passengers in the car.

All the police cars in the area zero in on the car and the driver starts driving faster and more dangerously. After the chase carrys on for a bit the car smashes into a passenger car with a whole family of mother husband and children killing all of them,

Were the police right in their justification to chase the car to its doom?

Discuss... I'm interested to see your views on this one...

McJamweasel · BCF Junkie Joined: 22 Mar 2002 Karma :

Yes.

If the car ran then the occupants were obviously trying to hide something.
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bubbleflap · Borekit Bruiser Joined: 09 Jun 2004 Karma :

does that mean the police have the right to risk the passengers in the car AND other motorists on the road? Ask yourself, do they really have that right?

Sacarius · Scooby Slapper Joined: 02 Jun 2004 Karma :

An idea would be to have a device fitted to all vehichles, like gps tracking will proberly happen soon. A device which enables the police to control the brakes or another major function. Maybe a bit far fetched, though soon enough cars will drive themselves or not exist.
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McJamweasel · BCF Junkie Joined: 22 Mar 2002 Karma :

In that situation they have no way of telling what the passengers in the car are up to. What if its a car load of terrorist about to launch an attack? Can they risk not stopping them? As for bystanders, the police would attempt to minimise the risk of those casualties.
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bubbleflap · Borekit Bruiser Joined: 09 Jun 2004 Karma :

McJamweasel · BCF Junkie Joined: 22 Mar 2002 Karma :

No, I didn't say that they should assume it is. However, they cannot rule out the possibility.
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rsooty · Spanner Monkey Joined: 16 Jun 2004 Karma :

Yes they are doing the right thing. What if the people in the car were on their way to kill a family... Same loss both ways Very Happy

and if they weren't going to do anything bad, they wouldn't of driven off. It's a case of thinking the worst.
Plus if there were to be a death there is a high chance the chasing officer would be investigated and possibly punished.

Sooty

Ste · Not Work Safe Joined: 01 Sep 2002 Karma :

Yes they are right to try to stop someone who has their brake light out, as brake lights are a pretty much essential part of the vehicle, and without it they're likely to cause a crash as someone behind them can't tell they're braking. If the police alert them with the siren to please stop (which is basically what it means) and they choose to run, then that's their own fault, and the police could not have predicted or expected that. They obviously have something to hide and don't want to speak to the police, so it is right the police tail them as otherwise if they let anyone who ran away from them off everyone would just ignore the police.

They can't predict what will happen, and the more prepared someone is to run from the police then the more reason there is why the police need to speak to them, which is why they follow them until they stop them.

They don't assume that a car with a faulty brake light is anything at all other than a car with a faulty break light and it is only when the car decides to run and try and hide that the police have extra interest in them, as if they'd pulled over orignally they'd have just been given a recifaction notice or a warning, but failing to stop for a police vehicle is an offence on it's own and then there will be whatever they thought they needed to run from the police because of.

Police should, and do follow them. It hardly gives a good message to people if the police took the policy of "if you run away from us, and drive in a dangerous way" it doesn't give a good idea at all, as otherwise people will just run and drive in a dangerous way as they then know that the police don't then follow them.

stinkwheel · Bovine Proctologist Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Karma :

Better than the US! Just watch 'The Worlds Wildest Police Videos' on Sundays, channel 5. Gung-ho doesn't even begin to describe it! If someone in this country decided to move their high speed chase onto the wrong side of the road on a busy motorway, the police would abandon the persuit.

Although I have heard a well corroborated story of a 150mph bike chase on the M8 where a copper radioed in a request to deploy a stinger! Shocked

. Thankfully the reply was "That is negative, rpt, negative on the stinger unless you are considering deadly force."
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bubbleflap · Borekit Bruiser Joined: 09 Jun 2004 Karma :

Stinger at 180mph? Just silly. As far as I can see we need police who are wise and not gung ho.

NSR125-Kid-UK · Attention Whore Joined: 03 May 2003 Karma :

The police should keep track of the vehicle, perhaps putting out requests for the observation of the vehicle and apprehension of the occupants, but I think a full blown chase would be a bad idea. As for the occupants of the vehicle knowing they would only get a rectification notice, I don't think this would apply in all cases either. Remember when I crashed the NSR, I was expecting to be charged with dangerous driving, when all I got was a producer. Police are only human, and you can't predict their behavior, or their intentions with any great degree of certainty.
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Shade_BW · I'm better than you Joined: 13 Jul 2004 Karma :

Get a grip, get a life.

Police accidents happen, people get hurt, it's a consequence of them doing their job.

Your probably the same person that complains that the police didn't do anything when your bike gets nicked.

That's because of namby pamby do-gooder people like you, spitting on the police, hammering their rights, and their effectiveness, and their ability to do their job.

It's not easy out there for them, and you guys make it worse.

Oh, I can't stop that guy over their, cos he is black, and i've stopped my quota of black guys this week.

Oh, I can't chase that bank robber in my car, there has been a 2.7% rise in car chases this month.

Shade
Sick of it.

mazza · Nova Slayer Joined: 27 Apr 2004 Karma :

Ste · Not Work Safe Joined: 01 Sep 2002 Karma :

They're not allowed to use stingers on bikes due to what would happen if one was to be used. The 150mph doesn't make any difference, the bike could have been going at 10mph and they still are not allowed to use them.

bubbleflap · Borekit Bruiser Joined: 09 Jun 2004 Karma :

None of you seem to realise the point that I'm trying to get across. You're totally misinterpreting what I'm saying!

McJamweasel · BCF Junkie Joined: 22 Mar 2002 Karma :

So clarify it for us.
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BCF: Be yourself, just don't be an arse.

bubbleflap · Borekit Bruiser Joined: 09 Jun 2004 Karma :

You all assume the driver is a bank robber/ terrorist etc. Lets assume its more likely he's just some ordinary guy doing something stupid like driving without insurance or tax, and is already on the edge. The police sirening him pushes him over the edge and he decides to try and escape them.

The police can see by now he's endangering himself and other motorists as he's had neer crashes already (as is inevitable in a high speed chase), should the police keep chasing him until he does the next inevitable thing, kill himself and others?

Which would be worse? Letting a random person go or killng innocent people...?

Shade_BW · I'm better than you Joined: 13 Jul 2004 Karma :

bubbleflap · Borekit Bruiser Joined: 09 Jun 2004 Karma :

Haha

You're wasting your own time! Yes I asked you to discuss it but I'm also trying to see if anyone understands it from my point of view, thats all.

How would you feel if your parents brothers and sisters were all killed by someone driving like a lunatic because the police had forced him to?

I know what you're going to say, they didn't force him to he did it himself. But, if the police had stopped chasing him its likely it wouldn't have happened.

Now you say, "well thats like saying if he wasn't born it wouldn't have happened so its his parents fault" That doesn't really apply because as soon as the police started chasing him control of the situation passes over to them, they can interpret whats going on and they KNOW the consequences of high speed chases.

McJamweasel · BCF Junkie Joined: 22 Mar 2002 Karma :

Shade_BW · I'm better than you Joined: 13 Jul 2004 Karma :

Bubbleflap, I think your an idiot with a lot of growing up to do. I'd have to lower my IQ by several notches to understand it from your point of view, and I'm not prepared to do that.

But that's only my humble opinion, feel free to disagree with it.

Shade
Wasted enough time, NEXT!

Ste · Not Work Safe Joined: 01 Sep 2002 Karma :

So you're saying bubbleflap that if you refuse to stop for a minor offence (or you might not be aware of any offence like with the brake light) and run off the police should not chase you? Think about that, and how much it would work, or more to the point how much it would not work. If you knew that if you refused to stop for the police they would not chase you or do anything would you ever stop for them? No point in saying they can use the numberplate to track you down, as if they're not going to chase you if you don't stop no one would bother with numberplates or anything, and who is to say the numberplate on the car is even the right one.

Generally someone does not refuse to stop for the police unless there is something they do not want the police to find out about. So they have just given the police a clear indication that there is some other crime which the police will be interested in.

Would you prefer that they stop people for whatever, or if someone is driving in a dangerous way and refusing to stop that the police just let them go? Sure you're love it if you were knocked off your bike by someone who the police had not chased after on previous occasions due to them refusing to stop. Doesn't make any sense does it. And it would not work at all as if the police took the policy of not chasing you if you drive in a dangerous way it's just sending a clear message that to stop the police chasing you you just need to do something dangerous.

bubbleflap · Borekit Bruiser Joined: 09 Jun 2004 Karma :

Very good point, I have much respect for what you've said and agree with it! I'm coming to the conclusion there is no right thing to do really.

bubbleflap · Borekit Bruiser Joined: 09 Jun 2004 Karma :