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iooi
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Joined: 14 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: 20:07 - 19 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
G wrote:
So, again I ask:
So would you be fine being fined for every single thing you did that broke a law?
I really suspect not.


Ah Zero tolerance.

As area's that have implemented this have found. Start at the bottom with the small law breaker and as the seriousness rises. The level of crime reduces, all on its own.

Once people realise that even tapping the ash of your cig through the window, instead of in the ash tray. Will result in a fine. They soon realise that doing something more serious is going to hit them even harder.

As to the argument that checking your speed at a camera is dangerous.....
You should be checking your speed all the time.

I would rather have fixed camera's. As you know where they are. Start back to the old days and Pc plod at the side of the road and you will have to check your speed all the time.... Just incase he's round that next corner Laughing
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yuri2085
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PostPosted: 20:10 - 19 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Bazza, make a side thread with a poll, it seems to be the thing to do these days.
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JAMSXR
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PostPosted: 20:11 - 19 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Bazza I'm the first to admit then when on my bike I spend 90% of the time speeding. However when driving my car I tend to stick with the speed limits allot more, every now and then, usually when driving somewhere unfamiliar I will not be 100% sure what the speed limit (usually due to poor road signs).
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G
The Voice of Reason



Joined: 02 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 20:13 - 19 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
iooi wrote:

As area's that have implemented this have found. Start at the bottom with the small law breaker and as the seriousness rises. The level of crime reduces, all on its own.

Once people realise that even tapping the ash of your cig through the window, instead of in the ash tray. Will result in a fine. They soon realise that doing something more serious is going to hit them even harder.

My experience is that the police and legal system are targeting the 'easy targets'; allowing those breaking the law more seriously to get away scot free.
For instance, they'll people going to get their lunch from their place of work for no tax, but won't do the your scally on a motocross bike ragging it along pavements, or if they happen to catch them, worst they'll get is a slap on the wrists.
Go further up the chain and pikeys that likely are guilty of many more serious crimes and the police won't even go near even when something specific is reported.

The legal system seems to be designed to subdue and profit from those that break or bend the law a little; yet leave those doing much work along because it's not easy or profitable.
I think it should be working top-down, not bottom up personally.
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JAMSXR
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PostPosted: 20:18 - 19 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
You should be checking your speed all the time


IMO keeping your eyes on the road ahead is far more important then looking down at your speed.
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bazza
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PostPosted: 20:42 - 19 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
yuri2085 wrote:
Bazza, make a side thread with a poll, it seems to be the thing to do these days.


It's not really a poll-type question. Plus, it was raised as a prima facie justification for CCTV cars grinding the faces of the poor downtrodden masses into the dirt. Erroneously, as it turns out. Laughing
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SamJL
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PostPosted: 20:49 - 19 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Do these people have NO life??

Why the hell would you stand next to a car with a stupid jacket on!? How long do they stand there for? What a bloody massive waste of time.

I thought those cars were to catch people on the phone, not wearing seat-belts, and not concentrating when there driving? I saw something on them about them catching women doing there makeup behind the wheel. They can't even do you for speeding! And its not like you can accidentally be on your phone or accidentally doing your makeup! To be honest, they actually seem like a good idea to me, the more people they make concentrate on there actual driving, the better!
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Hetzer
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PostPosted: 21:56 - 19 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Bloke wrote:
Hetzer wrote:


Oh. Anything else you'd like to pre-exclude in your belated definition of what constitutes an accident? Rolling Eyes

One of the biggest criticisms of 'safety' cameras is how they force you to always be looking to the speedo instead on concentrating on the road. Well, consider why? And when you've worked that out consider also that during moments when all concentration is absolutely needed on the road ones speed will often exceed the limit. Accidentally.


Lol are you really that shit at driving/riding?

I can happily sit at a set speed without being to stare at my speedo like a retard. Rolling Eyes

occassional glances yes, constantly watching it no.


No, I just drive according to the conditions, rather than at a set speed like a bent-over tool. Rolling Eyes
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Bloke
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Joined: 06 Aug 2010
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PostPosted: 22:40 - 19 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hetzer wrote:
Bloke wrote:


Lol are you really that shit at driving/riding?

I can happily sit at a set speed without being to stare at my speedo like a retard. Rolling Eyes

occassional glances yes, constantly watching it no.


No, I just drive according to the conditions, rather than at a set speed like a bent-over tool. Rolling Eyes


Yet you stare at a speedo instead of watching the road?

Make your mind up, you are either "forced to always look at your speedo", or you're capable of riding at the conditions of the road you're on.

Laughing
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Esinem
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PostPosted: 00:11 - 20 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Accidental or not, it is pretty easy to drift over urban speed limits by a couple mph, especially in a 20mph limit on a sports bike.

Anyway, CCTV cars don't enforce speed limits, nor, AFAIK, can council operated ones issue PCN's for mobile phone usage; that's just the cops' ones, isn't it?

Call me pessimistic but I can see a time coming when every vehicle has a black box fitted that links to GPS and a database of contraventions, e.g. parking, bus lane, speeding. That way each offence could be recorded and prosecuted automatically, any time, any place, every time. 33mph at lat xxx long yyy. Kerching! How much fun with a big bike be then? The technology exists and would be cheap. All you have to do to avoid the penalties is never to break the law. Simples! It has already been suggested that a similar device would provide fairer, and for many far cheaper insurance, based on usage and driving habits...
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Bloke
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PostPosted: 01:26 - 20 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Esinem wrote:
Accidental or not, it is pretty easy to drift over urban speed limits by a couple mph, especially in a 20mph limit on a sports bike.

Anyway, CCTV cars don't enforce speed limits, nor, AFAIK, can council operated ones issue PCN's for mobile phone usage; that's just the cops' ones, isn't it?

Call me pessimistic but I can see a time coming when every vehicle has a black box fitted that links to GPS and a database of contraventions, e.g. parking, bus lane, speeding. That way each offence could be recorded and prosecuted automatically, any time, any place, every time. 33mph at lat xxx long yyy. Kerching! How much fun with a big bike be then? The technology exists and would be cheap. All you have to do to avoid the penalties is never to break the law. Simples! It has already been suggested that a similar device would provide fairer, and for many far cheaper insurance, based on usage and driving habits...


Sounds quite reasonable tbh. My bike provides me with enough fun doing roundabouts and sweeping/tight country lanes at road legal speeds at the moment, so anything that lowers the nigh on £1000 premium I almost ended up paying for my 600cc xj6 diversion is a good thing.

I do speed (not accidentally) and that tends to be because motorways are boring as arse I don't do it to get my thrills. So if a little black box means I pay less, woo! i'll take one.

btw esinem i'm not disputing that slips of 1-5 mph occur (hills, dips, undulations in the road etc...) i'm disputing hetzers rant that speed cameras force him to constantly stare at his speedo, a periodic check that you'd do anyway should be enough to confirm your speed is not going to land you with a nasty nip.
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Esinem
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PostPosted: 01:42 - 20 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Agreed, you'd be a bit of a numpty to be 'accidentally' doing a good whack over 'cos you hadn't got your nose glued to the speedo. If you haven't got that much awareness, it time to get back to basics if you want to keep your licence/live.
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JAMSXR
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PostPosted: 10:29 - 20 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Bloke wrote:
Esinem wrote:
Accidental or not, it is pretty easy to drift over urban speed limits by a couple mph, especially in a 20mph limit on a sports bike.

Anyway, CCTV cars don't enforce speed limits, nor, AFAIK, can council operated ones issue PCN's for mobile phone usage; that's just the cops' ones, isn't it?

Call me pessimistic but I can see a time coming when every vehicle has a black box fitted that links to GPS and a database of contraventions, e.g. parking, bus lane, speeding. That way each offence could be recorded and prosecuted automatically, any time, any place, every time. 33mph at lat xxx long yyy. Kerching! How much fun with a big bike be then? The technology exists and would be cheap. All you have to do to avoid the penalties is never to break the law. Simples! It has already been suggested that a similar device would provide fairer, and for many far cheaper insurance, based on usage and driving habits...


Sounds quite reasonable tbh. My bike provides me with enough fun doing roundabouts and sweeping/tight country lanes at road legal speeds at the moment, so anything that lowers the nigh on £1000 premium I almost ended up paying for my 600cc xj6 diversion is a good thing.


Safety Nazis at their best..... I hope the above would not happen in my lifetime, for the moment we live in a democracy and I'm certain the majority of the public would strongly disagree with what has been said above. Also the suggestion of a 'black box' to record offenses is flawed on so many levels!

Please both of you sell your bikes now before you end up getting hurt....
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Nixon
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Joined: 23 Jun 2007
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PostPosted: 11:55 - 20 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
G wrote:

So, again I ask:
So would you be fine being fined for every single thing you did that broke a law?


Yes i would because i know the law and i know that if i break it i am liable for prosecution, and the more often i get away with it the more likely i am to do it again!

I guarantee I wont get fined for speeding in a 30 again, and I guarantee that I wont get fined for parking on a pavement again, because I have had to bite the bullet and had to pay the price! but that doesn't mean i wont speed on open roads, but if i do get caught Im going to man up and accept that what i was doing was illegal.

So for your example is it ok to run a red light if you think its safe to do so?
What makes you so amazingly super man where you can twist the rules and choose which laws are appropriate and which ones you should or should not be prosecuted for?

A law is a law and is set in stone, if you choose to ignore a no entry sign because your "THE MIGHTY G! GET OUT OF MY WAY PEASANTS THIS ONE WAY SYSTEM DOES NOT APPLY TO ME!! IM FROM THE INTERNETS YOU KNOW!!" sooner or later your going to get caught!
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Nixon
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PostPosted: 12:03 - 20 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
G wrote:

For instance the policeman that stopped me while doing a wheelie, but accepted that it was a safe place and didn't decide to prosecute.
The laws against doing such things are to protect you endangering yourself and others. It was fairly obvious I was doing neither of those, so I was let off with a friendly word.



G wrote:
.... but won't do the your scally on a motocross bike ragging it along pavements, or if they happen to catch them, worst they'll get is a slap on the wrists.



One rule for you one rule for them eh?
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G
The Voice of Reason



Joined: 02 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 12:30 - 20 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
nixon wrote:

So for your example is it ok to run a red light if you think its safe to do so?

Certainly is for the police van I saw doing it on a Saturday night (Sunday morning). And no, I don't think they were on an emergency; a car pulled up to the next bit of roundabout and they waited for that red light; suspect they just wanted to get home quicker.
Similarly for the 3 police vans doing dead on 70 (GPS) up the back side of each other (speed limit is 60 for vans on dual carriageway A roads for vans.) They were followed by two police cars that didn't seem to be attempting to arrest these law-breakers.

I have run a red light when I thought it was safe to do so.
It was a one-way section of road. The light timings had been changed because of a football game. After 15 minutes it had not changed from red and showed no sign of doing so.
What do you suggest I should have done?

Quote:
What makes you so amazingly super man where you can twist the rules and choose which laws are appropriate and which ones you should or should not be prosecuted for?

Same as everyone else. If we got prosecuted for every law that was broken, as I said, the system would not work. The only reason "lowest common denominator" laws work is the majority do not get prosecuted for them the majority of the time.

Quote:
One rule for you one rule for them eh?

Actually, I would be quite glad to be able to ride my off-road bikes in public places providing I was not endangering anyone (which from the pit bike that crashed in the alley way behind my house, it seems they weren't.) That would make my life a hell of a lot easier if I could test my track bike on the road, rather than spending a load of money on a trackday to find it isn't working properly.
Actually, personally people doing such doesn't worry me much; I was pointing out the disparity that at the moment it definitely is 'one law for them, one law for us'.

So you never even hit 31mph in a 30mph zone, never?
Also you'd be happy to be banned and have to spend thousands more from one single trip because you exceeded the speed limit very slightly four separate times? You'd committed the crime, so you'll do the time.
If so, 'wow'. That is certainly not the view of most people. And perhaps is why you are so confused by my point of view and see it as a

I haven't been done for a 'no entry sign', but I know someone that has. They turned in to the road, then something that was obscuring the sign or something moved away, they realised and they turned around, only having been in the road about a metre and went to leave.
A police car had seen this from a hidden position and they got three points and a fine.
Do you think this is the way the system should work? Do you think this is useful in making the roads safer?

I have been done for double white lines by an undercover bike.
The policeman that then did me for it admitted the situation I overtook in was safe. But they were doing, unbeknownst to me, a crackdown on bikes crossing white lines that weekend because it was the bank holiday weekend on the coast (I wasn't attending for biking reasons.)
I found myself riding considerably less safely afterwards.
Do you think this is useful in making the roads safer? Do you think this is how the law should work?
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yuri2085
World Chat Champion



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PostPosted: 12:43 - 20 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
The quote 'I know the rules so I accept my punishment' doesn't really wash unless you are saying. 'I think the world would be a better place if the rules were such as they are now, and everyone got caught for every minor infringement'.
The 'spirit of the law' is actually considered (well, maybe past tense) in the designing on laws and the idea is there is a risk of being caught which is a deterrent, there is also an ability to apply judgement to a situation which some policemen still use. These policemen are acting correctly in my opinion and they are also acting lawfully.
I find it very odd you think with the amount of things which are technically 'illegal' you would want people to be caught for EVERYTHING.
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PizzImperfect
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PostPosted: 12:59 - 20 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Don't be angry all - Think about boobs.
Try not to do it while riding though to avoid a crash.

Thats all i've got to say on the matter really Confused
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Hetzer
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PostPosted: 13:04 - 20 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Bloke wrote:

Yet you stare at a speedo instead of watching the road?

Make your mind up, you are either "forced to always look at your speedo", or you're capable of riding at the conditions of the road you're on.

Laughing


You're a bit thick, aren't you. Where did I say that I constantly look at my speedo?

Dumbass. Laughing
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