Armed Forces?

[Chalky.]

Should be cut back?

I'm far from anti military being from a forces family, was born in Germany on base and all that jazz.

But given the way things are, and the civilised state of the Western World, should we be looking at scaling back troops etc?

Perhaps just have one multinational anti terror unit?

Think of all the tanks, planes, ships etc, when was the last time they were actually used for anything other than training?

Obviously search and rescue, that kind of thing stays, but the rest of it?

Discuss.

[The Wobbly Orange]

In that case can i please have your crystal ball that tells you that the world will be just as safe in 20-30-40 years time.

Point is if in 1980 you said the largest naval taskgroup would be deployed since korea you would be laughed at. If in 2000 you said that an invasion of iraq and a long term deployment to afghanistan would be the main focus of the next decade you would be ridiculed.

Point is there is no way to predict the future so gutting all conventional capability on wishful thinking is both shortsighted and naive.
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[Itchy]

Depends on which theory you believe in tbh..

In game theory of resource grabbing (which is happening today) you need a massive army with lots of expensive weapons. Currenty the resource grabs are independent of each country. US grabs Iraq, China grabs central Asia and Africa. TSHTF when two large powers decide to make a grab of the same finite resource.


Although tbh there is a lot of obsolete stuff out there. Carriers for instance are verging on obsolete as much cheaper missiles can sink them. When Sunburn missiles cost £1.5 million each you can easily afford to buy 4000+ of them for the cost of a single Ford Class carrier (15bn) The NIMROD is a disgrace! It is a 50 year old aircraft frame. Tanks can be taken out with ATGMs, much of the hardware today (including the Typhoon) was designed for a war which never happened with the USSR.
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[Chalky.]

[Itchy]

[-LG-]

As someone who wants to join the Army, no they shouldn't lol.

I do believe that certain things shouldn't be cut back, schools, NHS, Police, Army. Dunno where to save money from though lol.

[SoND]

[-LG-]

[Kickstart]

Hi

Trouble with cutting back the military is knowing what will be needed in the future and the time to build that up.

For example, the Typhoon has recently gone into service (2003). The first dummy model was rolled out in 1986, 17 years before. In comparison many things change in 17 years. The USSR since then has gone from having a formidable army to pretty much disintegration and now building up its power base again.

The military is a bit like an insurance policy. You can pay a large amount for full coverage and be pretty safe but broke, or you can pay less and take the risk. Just have to hope that the risks you are not covering never occur.

The UK military is a bit under 200k strong now (regulars). Sounds a lot, but for comparison ~340k were evacuated from Dunkirk in WW2.

What is a pity is that the armed forces have been a good way of developing products which can be sold on to other countries, but which now we seem to be more inclined to buy in. Results in slightly lower costs but nothing offset by later sales. The ultimate ludicrous situation was with the Nimrod where old aircraft were completely stripped and rebuilt to such an extent that I doubt there was any real saving over just building a full set of jigs and building a brand new series of Nimrods and having the facility to build and sell more.

All the best

Keith
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[Kickstart]

[Dex]

[colin1]

[SirEdward]

UK military cuts is a UN army in the making.
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"Beyond a critical point within a finite space, freedom diminishes as numbers increase. This is as true of humans as it is of gas molecules in a sealed flask. The human question is not how many can possibly survive within the system, but what kind of existence is possible for those who so survive.

Pardot Kynes in "Appendix I: The Ecology of Dune""

[Hetzer]

They need to ring-fence foreign-aid so they can keep on giving large on the world stage and making out the UK is still a player.

Ego is a real bitch. Especially when it's your leaders' and they're padding it by fucking over our own poor so the poor of other countries can continue to fund their nasty little civil-wars.
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"There's the horizon! Ride hard, ride fast and cut down all who stand in your way!"

[MinhDinh]

Check how much has been spent on war such as Iraq and Afghanistan.
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Hit the G spot.

[Chalky.]

[Kickstart]

[LordShaftesbu...]

[Charlie]

The MoD is stupidly inefficient. If the MoD was more efficient they'd be slightly more unemployed but at the same the troops would have more money being spent on them. Interesting video on 4oD about how the MoD wastes millions: clicky (video doesn't seem to be there, could be worth checking YouTube)
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[bazza]

[SirEdward]

Hey, don't worry: in a scenario of another genocidal World War in Europe, the military would be upgraded to the task in a matter of months.

And you'll be the ones who are going to be making those MBT crankshafts.
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"Beyond a critical point within a finite space, freedom diminishes as numbers increase. This is as true of humans as it is of gas molecules in a sealed flask. The human question is not how many can possibly survive within the system, but what kind of existence is possible for those who so survive.

Pardot Kynes in "Appendix I: The Ecology of Dune""

[pa_broon74]

The other thing (apart from shitty negotiating by the last government) is new Euro-legislation. I see it occassionally in the NHS with big procurements, the hoops you have to jump through are manifold.

I have to say, I'm not overly versed, but the carrier thing is a clusterfuck of epic proportions for sure. As I understand it the only plane that can land on it is a harrier and they're being binned?

I have come round to scrapping trident though and fecking off any replacement; its a waste of money.


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[LordShaftesbu...]

[swanny]

i wouldnt worry too much, the country was in a reet state when the second world war started,

how quickly do people reckon foreign aid etc would last if we were at all our war..

(not forgetting the country has been at war since 2001 ... )
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[SirEdward]

U.K. Nuclear Submarine Runs Aground Off Scottish Isle of Skye

HMS Astute stranded off the Isle of Skye @ YouTube

Abandon ship.
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"Beyond a critical point within a finite space, freedom diminishes as numbers increase. This is as true of humans as it is of gas molecules in a sealed flask. The human question is not how many can possibly survive within the system, but what kind of existence is possible for those who so survive.

Pardot Kynes in "Appendix I: The Ecology of Dune""