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Closest i have come to a very nasty accident

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Darth
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PostPosted: 18:03 - 31 Oct 2010    Post subject: Closest i have come to a very nasty accident Reply with quote

Was out seeing my parents today, I often go out there early on a Saturday or Sunday while the roads are dead so know the road very well. Coming home about midday, was sat behind 3 cars - one going about 45 with one behind seemingly in no hurry either and a sportier vectra waiting for an overtake opportunity. We get to a straight and I wait until the vectra has made his move as predicted then pass all 3 cars in a oner, probably hitting well into triple figures by the time I have completed my move. After that I let off the throttle as I know there is a crossroads ahead (i am on the A road, B road crossing).
Didn't pay a lot of attention to my actual speed but guess I was about 70-80 as I first started looking at the crossroads. Noticed a red fiesta on the left side of the junction waiting to pull out so I continue slowing gently whilst checking for other hazards. As I get almost to the junction this fiesta just starts pulling out! All happened very fast but I knew i was close enough now that I had no chance of stopping in time, still hoping that the driver would have to notice me soon, now, now, now? Jesus he isn't going to see me, all the while i was edging over the white line to avoid him on that side. Remember briefly thinking about trying to dive to the left and cut behind him but that would likely turn out very badly if he did stop suddenly. Anyway a last minute dive right onto the oncoming lane saw me avoid the collision by what felt like a fraction of an inch, actually felt my trouser leg scuff their bumper! All the time this car was still pulling out on me!
Have had a few close moments over my 3 years riding but this took the biscuit and really shook me up how bad it could have been and how close I had just come to some serious injury.
On reflection later on I also thought about how if it had gone badly then any claim assuming my survival could have been placed on my shoulders as 3 cars behind me would probably only remember how a very loud bike had passed them quickly only moments beforehand. Think my only save would have been vectra dude who I think must have been close enough to see this twat pull out on me.
Anyway, the whole thing really scared the bejesus outta me. That's all really! Watch out for red fiesta and never assume that car isn't going to pull out on you, even if you are on a bright red bike with lights on whilst riding on a beautiful clear day!
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Harold_Shand wrote: I suppose it's like anything, you get your fingers burned when you start out, you learn from it and eventually become a complete arsehole about the whole thing.
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Marmalade
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PostPosted: 18:25 - 31 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do hope you explained the error of their ways to the driver
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Sam_Y_93
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PostPosted: 18:26 - 31 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Bloke
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PostPosted: 19:04 - 31 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm wondering how you were going "slowly gently" yet couldnt stop in time.

You were riding too fast for the conditions relying on "i have priority" which does you no good when you're 6 feet under.

Car driver is a twat but you're taking the wrong lesson away from the near miss.
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colin1
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PostPosted: 19:48 - 31 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bloke wrote:
I'm wondering how you were going "slowly gently" yet couldnt stop in time.

You were riding too fast for the conditions relying on "i have priority" which does you no good when you're 6 feet under.

Car driver is a twat but you're taking the wrong lesson away from the near miss.


I'm sorry but you cant slow down for each junction to a speed where if someone pulled out you could stop in time.

You can however, use the horn to alert someone to your presence if you think they haven't seen you. Or if you think they havent seen you, you can slam the anchors on and hope someone doesnt go into the back of you.
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Darth
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PostPosted: 19:51 - 31 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bloke wrote:
I'm wondering how you were going "slowly gently" yet couldnt stop in time.

You were riding too fast for the conditions relying on "i have priority" which does you no good when you're 6 feet under.

Car driver is a twat but you're taking the wrong lesson away from the near miss.



I get what you are saying and agree with it to a point, i should have perhaps ensured i slowed quicker as soon as saw the car but are you really telling me you have never passed a junction at a speed you couldnt have stopped at if a car pulled out in front on you at the last minute? That would mean slowing to around 30 past every junction!
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G
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PostPosted: 19:56 - 31 Oct 2010    Post subject: Re: Closest i have come to a very nasty accident Reply with quote

You had your dipped beam on in daytime (I'm presuming it's not full beam)?

Do you realise that this can make it harder for other people to judge speed?
Further, if it's a bumpy road, or you're changing from accelerating to breaking it can very easily look like you're 'flashing' your headlight.
While in the highway code this means "I'm here"; in reality of course it means "you can go".

As ever, my usual suggestion; have a look at 'advanced riding' stuff.
Motorcycle road craft is a good start. Try your local IAM group or consider a 'bike safe' day - though bike safe is just a start which doesn't continue, but worth doing for many.
Oh and Bloke, maybe you should have a look too Smile.
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Darth
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PostPosted: 20:10 - 31 Oct 2010    Post subject: Re: Closest i have come to a very nasty accident Reply with quote

G wrote:
You had your dipped beam on in daytime (I'm presuming it's not full beam)?

Do you realise that this can make it harder for other people to judge speed?
Further, if it's a bumpy road, or you're changing from accelerating to breaking it can very easily look like you're 'flashing' your headlight.
While in the highway code this means "I'm here"; in reality of course it means "you can go".

As ever, my usual suggestion; have a look at 'advanced riding' stuff.
Motorcycle road craft is a good start. Try your local IAM group or consider a 'bike safe' day - though bike safe is just a start which doesn't continue, but worth doing for many.
Oh and Bloke, maybe you should have a look too Smile.


Yes, lights were on dipped. Always are. I know there arguments for and against this practice but as a rule I think I am happier with them on rather than off.
I was only engine braking on a flat stretch of road so doubt if they thought I flashing them out especially as they were still pulling out as i was passing in front of their bonnet
I do intend to do some advanced training in the future though. Maybe sooner rather than later after today! Mr. Green
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G
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PostPosted: 20:33 - 31 Oct 2010    Post subject: Re: Closest i have come to a very nasty accident Reply with quote

From a car where you're a bit lower down (bike lights are pretty high compared to most 4 wheelers), it's quite easy for a bike going over a bumpy bit to look like it's 'flashing' it's headlights - as it just needs the 'cut off' point to flick past eye level.
Bikes often move more inches of suspension travel for the same road conditions I'd, with a short wheel base this makes the problem worse too.

Quite possible/likely they didn't see you. Especially if cars behind had headlights on too, quite easy for a bike to disappear.

What's often suggested is to move side to side a bit to get attention, but of course first you have to realise it's a situation you need to.
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L4Isoside
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PostPosted: 20:39 - 31 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think using your horn would have been your best bet, and as soon as you saw him moving our brake firmly as well.

Thankfully you didn't hit him Shocked
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calyx
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PostPosted: 20:57 - 31 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

colin1 wrote:

I'm sorry but you cant slow down for each junction to a speed where if someone pulled out you could stop in time.


Yes you can. At least I do.
It only takes a couple of seconds to accelerate back to 60-70. And it is fun too Laughing
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ms51ves3
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PostPosted: 21:01 - 31 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

calyx wrote:
colin1 wrote:

I'm sorry but you cant slow down for each junction to a speed where if someone pulled out you could stop in time.


Yes you can. At least I do.
It only takes a couple of seconds to accelerate back to 60-70. And it is fun too Laughing


But you'd have to slow down to a speed in which you could stop instantly. Somebody could pull out on your when you're three feet away from a junction, you'd have to be going very, very slowly to stop before you hit them.
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Clanger
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PostPosted: 21:03 - 31 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use the horn if people don't appear to see me...give them a right old blast. Sometimes they appear jump out of their skin...so I reckon if in doubt, use it...it's free and it's right under your thumb!!! Exclamation
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Gone
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PostPosted: 21:11 - 31 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Two options: Give up and walk, slowly, or just ride the bike and know they aren't going to get you. If you worry too much, you can't ride.
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colin1
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PostPosted: 22:32 - 31 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

calyx wrote:


Yes you can. At least I do.
It only takes a couple of seconds to accelerate back to 60-70. And it is fun too Laughing


I dont believe for a second that you slow down to 10mph for every junction on a NSL road, and if you do, you are in danger of someone going into the back of you.
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 23:05 - 31 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

calyx wrote:
colin1 wrote:

I'm sorry but you cant slow down for each junction to a speed where if someone pulled out you could stop in time.


Yes you can. At least I do.
It only takes a couple of seconds to accelerate back to 60-70. And it is fun too Laughing


Yep. +1
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 23:07 - 31 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

colin1 wrote:


I dont believe for a second that you slow down to 10mph for every junction on a NSL road, and if you do, you are in danger of someone going into the back of you.


Rolling Eyes

You don't need to slow down to 10mph, you need to slow down to a speed where you can stop if said moron pulls out. That isn't 10mph, it depends on the conditions, exit routes, the number of lanes on the road, if the car is turning left or right out of the junction. If in doubt, let them out.
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G
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PostPosted: 23:31 - 31 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

MarJay wrote:
That isn't 10mph, it depends on the conditions, exit routes, the number of lanes on the road, if the car is turning left or right out of the junction. If in doubt, let them out.

What's the top speed you can stop in when you're ten metres away from a T-junction on a single carriage way road with traffic coming the other way?

As you say, there's plenty of other variables; but based on pure braking distance you'd end up going pretty slowly, presuming a car that can pull out fairly quickly.
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Bloke
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PostPosted: 23:59 - 31 Oct 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

G wrote:
MarJay wrote:
That isn't 10mph, it depends on the conditions, exit routes, the number of lanes on the road, if the car is turning left or right out of the junction. If in doubt, let them out.

What's the top speed you can stop in when you're ten metres away from a T-junction on a single carriage way road with traffic coming the other way?

As you say, there's plenty of other variables; but based on pure braking distance you'd end up going pretty slowly, presuming a car that can pull out fairly quickly.


no one is saying that you have to slow to ten mph other than you crazy fools. All i'm saying is that at a junction you need to assess it.

"can I see into the junction?" continue : slow down
"is a car waiting?" Slow down : continue
"has the driver seen me?" Continue : be prepared to take avoiding action.

If it's a clear open junction I can see into and had nothing there i'd blast past at the nsl, as there is minimal risk.

If it's an NSL road and passing a junction with a car who's driver had not seen me i'd not be doing the NSL going past it. The car behind... Has brakes, has seen me and because it's a gradual slow down the likelihood of being rear ended is lessened.

Which is worse? Hitting a car at 60mph and the car behind plowing into you (yay for target fixation), or you slowing down and getting to blast it back up to speed when you're out of danger.

G, I quite fancy doing a bike safe course, planning to do one next year.
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G
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PostPosted: 00:16 - 01 Nov 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

See here:
Bloke wrote:
I'm wondering how you were going "slowly gently" yet couldnt stop in time.

You didn't mention avoiding. You mentioned stopping in time.
When you are 10 metres away from a junction with a car waiting, are you going a speed you could stop within 10 metres?
(We'll ignore the visibility into the junction - a car may be approaching at speed, for instance.)

How else does your above quote relating to stopping in time work, apart from riding at 10mph in the first place?

If you click on my profile there's a link to my 'review' of doing bikesafe a few years ago.
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-LG-
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PostPosted: 00:17 - 01 Nov 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keep the speed limit and more chance of people seeing you, and less chance of something thinking 'I can make it'.
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G
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PostPosted: 00:21 - 01 Nov 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

LosingGrip wrote:
Keep the speed limit and more chance of people seeing you, and less chance of something thinking 'I can make it'.

'Keep to the speed limit' as your guide and you've got a hell of a lot more change of being squished because you're letting a small disc of metal with some paint on be your safety measure, rather than assessing the situation and basing the speed you can go on your current safety.
Further, if you believe keeping to the speed limit will make a noticeable difference to people seeing you, I suspect you'll find yourself in even more trouble Confused.
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Bloke
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PostPosted: 00:31 - 01 Nov 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

G wrote:
See here:
Bloke wrote:
I'm wondering how you were going "slowly gently" yet couldnt stop in time.

You didn't mention avoiding. You mentioned stopping in time.
When you are 10 metres away from a junction with a car waiting, are you going a speed you could stop within 10 metres?
(We'll ignore the visibility into the junction - a car may be approaching at speed, for instance.)

How else does your above quote relating to stopping in time work, apart from riding at 10mph in the first place?

If you click on my profile there's a link to my 'review' of doing bikesafe a few years ago.


My quote was questioning the accuracy of his words "slowly gently" = bloody slow imo. I can stop from "slowly gently" speeds easily enough, though if I was in doubt i'd just let him out.

If you slow down, see the car driver see you and stop pulling out, speed back up, simple as.

You have to take the "has he/hasn't he" out of the question. if he thinks he can make it you've already slowed down enough so that it doesn't matter, you've already dropped through the gears so when it's clear, throttle on and overtake.

Letting someone out isn't the end of the world, plowing into someone could end you though.

That said, sometimes you're screwed anyway. In that case at least you anticipated the risk and are now crashing at 20 not 45, k.e. = 0.5 * (m * (v * v)), so that lessens the forces involved by a massive amount.

G, seen your review already, cheers for the heads up though.
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G
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PostPosted: 00:48 - 01 Nov 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Erm you did notice he said he was slowing gently - that his speed was decreasing, but only decreasing a little?
I don't see how this could specify 'bloody slow'. It might be bloody slow and getting even slower at a gentle pace, or it might be 180mph and getting slower at a gentle pace Smile.
He does specify an actual speed too.

The 'advanced riding' stuff is all about knowing what the situation is and where to put yourself to be in the least danger, so it falls from 'unlucky' to 'bolt falls out of aeroplane and smashes your bike' unlucky levels.
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Bloke
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PostPosted: 00:55 - 01 Nov 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

G wrote:
Erm you did notice he said he was slowing gently - that his speed was decreasing, but only decreasing a little?
I don't see how this could specify 'bloody slow'. It might be bloody slow and getting even slower at a gentle pace, or it might be 180mph and getting slower at a gentle pace Smile.
He does specify an actual speed too.

The 'advanced riding' stuff is all about knowing what the situation is and where to put yourself to be in the least danger, so it falls from 'unlucky' to 'bolt falls out of aeroplane and smashes your bike' unlucky levels.


Ah fair enough, I mis-read the OP. Thumbs Up

totally with you on the advanced riding thing.
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