Bring back Kick Start...

[Clanger]

Seems there is a petition out, trying to bring back the series!!!

https://www.expressinsurance.co.uk/express-zone/bring-back-kick-start
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Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter won't mind - Dr. Seuss

[waffles]

I remember watching that with my dad when I was a kid Saturday afternoon telly sorted. Im not sure they should bring it back, reviving stuff from childhood memories never seems as good as it was "back in the day". For example the A Team film. It was good, but not as good as the original series.

I'll probably still sign it, not that people take much notice of online petitions.
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Theory test - 19/8/09, CBT - 11/10/09, MOD 1 - 16/8/10, MOD 2 - 27/10/10
Past rides Yamaha XT125X, Triumph TT600, Honda XR250
Current rides Suzuki GSXR 600, Honda MSX125

[blurredman]

Yeah, didn't they try and bring back 'Minder' for the 2nd time?


That fell flat on it's face didn't it!!
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CBT: 12/06/10, Theory: 22/09/10, Module 1: 09/11/10, Module 2: 19/01/11
Past: 1991 Honda CG125BR-J, 1992 (1980) Honda XL125S, 1996 Kawasaki GPZ500S, 1979 MZ TS150.
Current: 1973 MZ ES250/2 - 18k, 1979 Suzuki TS185ER - 10k, 1981 Honda CX500B - 91k, 1987 MZ ETZ250 (295cc) - 40k, 1989 MZ ETZ251 - 51k.

[Nai]

I loved Kickstart! Deffo TV with the dad stuff! Not sure if anyone would watch / appreciate it in todays world though....

[Howling TerrorOutOfOffice]

Is Purvis dead?
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[ajbsmirnoff]

Now I can't get the theme out of my head.

[woll]

I thought you meant keith had gone somewhere
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Current Bike- Suzuki DRZ400 SM K6
Previous bikes - Derbi Senda Xtreme50r, Honda CBR 125, Kawasaki ZZR 250, Yamaha DT125R, Suzuki Bandit 600, Gas gas ec 250, Honda CBR600FW
Damaged spleen, damaged kindey, 2 popped lungs, 2 broken ribs, broken face, broken wrist and 5 back fractures... remember kids walls hurt

[TimNorwich]

[pepperami]

Is there not enough of us to warrant having a bike related programme??
There are loads of things we could put in it
A trials slot, a road bike slot, a track bike slot, Things-a-bit-different such as Moto-ball or drag bikes.
What about a Bikes of the past and how to fix them!
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I am the sum total of my own existence, what went before makes me who I am now!

[woll]

Top gear.... for bikes
It would be win
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Current Bike- Suzuki DRZ400 SM K6
Previous bikes - Derbi Senda Xtreme50r, Honda CBR 125, Kawasaki ZZR 250, Yamaha DT125R, Suzuki Bandit 600, Gas gas ec 250, Honda CBR600FW
Damaged spleen, damaged kindey, 2 popped lungs, 2 broken ribs, broken face, broken wrist and 5 back fractures... remember kids walls hurt

[pepperami]

[craigs23]

He's not gone no where, he's been posting here for ages.













Top Gear for bikes won't work.

[woll]

Craigs i know that lol, just when i saw the thread title i thought woaahhhhhh hold on a minute wtf has happened to keith

And i reckon it could easily work, it would get lots of viewers, bikers and non bikers. They could have them test riding the new bikes, the rare and expensive bikes. And as said bits on motorcross, enduros and racing.
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Current Bike- Suzuki DRZ400 SM K6
Previous bikes - Derbi Senda Xtreme50r, Honda CBR 125, Kawasaki ZZR 250, Yamaha DT125R, Suzuki Bandit 600, Gas gas ec 250, Honda CBR600FW
Damaged spleen, damaged kindey, 2 popped lungs, 2 broken ribs, broken face, broken wrist and 5 back fractures... remember kids walls hurt

[Polarbear]

Isn't Kickstart Ogri's dog?
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Triumph Trophy Launch Edition

[Kickstart]

[tvchimp]

I've never heard of Kickstart before this thread (other than BCF's very own Keith)... Was it a good programme?
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Bike: Currently Bikeless... Gahh

[Nai]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pja9Y7JIJBg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4110DiwCnJk&feature=related

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okJRTvS9z9E&feature=related

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZRSNTwKF_k&feature=related

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQ251DVaeZU&feature=related

Yes. It was good.

[tvchimp]

Watched parts of some of the videos, it's pretty impressive stuff. Although I am jealous and have more of a craving for an old trial bike...
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Bike: Currently Bikeless... Gahh

[Nai]

The trial bike video's sitting at the top of the Found On The Net sub forum at the moment are awesome

[G]

[Teflon-Mike]

Trouble with Kick-Start was that it wasn't actually Trials, it was a motorbike challenge, on trial-bikes, for TV.

The sport of trials, although technically the oldest form of motorcycle competition, was actually a relatively 'new' sport, when they first screened Kick-Start. Originally Trials were long distance marathon events, testing rider endurance & machine reliability, and they could be run on public roads, as there weren't any speed limits back then, provided they weren't a test of speed.

The sport 'evolved' in the 1950's, with far more clubman competitors taking part, but by then, bikes were a lot more reliable, and roads were being metalled, making it much less of a challenge. Still essentially a regularity trial, competitors picking pretty much their own route between predetermined check-points, they had to sign in at within a certain time interval, and to increase the challenge, special 'observed sections' were incorporated, where penalties were incurred for putting a foot-down or falling off, or missing a gate.

But, popularity and shortage of venues, promoted a 'new' sport, 'Pocket Trials', with courses consisting entirely of observed sections laid out on private land. That's what’s basically become modern 'Natural Terrain, Observed Section Trials', and was evolving through the sixties, until, the sport was recognised in its own right, as a separate entity from 'Trophy Trials', the long distance cross country marathons, that were incorporated into the new 'Enduro' calendar, the two disciplines being recognised independently and getting separate world Championships in the 70's.

Meanwhile though, to promote the sport, there were quite a lot of 'Exhibition Trials' put on, to demonstrate the sport to new audiences, often at existing shows, hence organised in the display arena, an incredibly small 'pocket trial' over man made obstacles. This eventually evolved into a discipline in its own right, Arena Trials, getting its own world Championship Status, I think in the early '90's, and with a lot of different rules to 'Normal' Trials.

Now, if you take a 'normal' Trial you generally have a 'course' of between eight and a dozen observed sections, each rider attempting each section in turn, on perhaps three or five 'laps' of the full course.

To televise such an event, you would have to have a camera for each section, to film each, and depending on the section, possibly more.

Trials isn't a very dynamic spectator sport. There’s only one bike and rider on a section at any one time, and they aren't going very fast. Doesn't make for particularly dynamic TV, unless you get up close with a lot of tight shots of the rider perspiring, concentration etched into their face as they line it up for an obstacle, mixed with wide shots showing how dramatic those obstacles are.

So, with perhaps ten sections to cover, different riders on different sections concurrently, you'd need lots of cameras, and lots of editing to grab all the action, and need to spend a lot of time making sense of it all after, in the editing suite.

That makes televising an event a difficult and expensive exercise. You might save some cameras and effort by only filming selected sections, and possibly selected rider (Think Sky sports does that for some World Championship Rounds), but its still a big and expensive task, and needs a lot of post production work, to make a TV show. Where aired, most often it's shown as highlights, with a post dubbed commentary.

By comparison, Short-Circuit Road-Racing can be filmed with only two or three cameras, covering wide tracts of the circuit, drama provided by having a number of bikes in the frame, moving about and dicing with each other, a wide shot showing how fast they are moving in relation to the scenery. While commentary can be provided in ‘real-time’ with the action, as can the editing, switching between live cameras as the race leaders move between them.

Consequently Kick-start didn't even try to televise 'real' trials. The whole event was 'staged' specifically for TV, and organised so that they could shoot the whole thing with very few cameras, and put together a complete show, with little editing.

And they based the events VERY loosely on Arena Trials. A small, single section was laid out, and each rider pitted against it, in turn, the one or two cameras following the action. Then the entire course was re-arranged in front of the cameras, into a new section, the riders all hanging around waiting, before each having their turn on it. Sometimes they would have a couple of sections laid out ahead, and they'd just shift the cameras, so that one section could be re-arranged while they rode the first, but, it was still a lengthy process, with a lot of riders hanging around, doing nothing, waiting for sections to be laid, and their fellow competitors to have their turn. And to add some drama, the TV had them compete against the clock, with time penalties for technical faults, rather than to any recognised trials rules.

What you got, then, wasn't trials, but 'Its a Knock-Out' with motorbikes instead of funny costumes! And I actually remember one eminent international rider of the Kick-start era voicing that actual criticism!

The program got to air, at a time of optimism, when money was starting to come into the sport, and the possibility of attracting sponsorship, via TV coverage, seemed a good way to raise the profile of the sport, and 'Cash In'. As I recall, the suggestion given was that Saturday Afternoon Grandstand, Speedway coverage got higher ratings than Match of the Day. And with TV coverage would come sponsor advertising spend, and the lot of the sport would improve.

As it transpired, it all went rather sour. The riders resented the game-show organisation of the events. They got no appearance money for it, little exposure, and it was time out from 'real' championship events, with high risk of injury & mashed bikes, from ever more challenging artificial obstacles.

If it had brought in sponsorship money, and lead to a televised British Arena Trials Championship, it might have gone some-where, but it never did. At least not in the UK. Where, there was a peculiar resentment against Arena Trials (Ironically having invented it as Exhibition Trials to promote the sport in Europe!)

Abroad, they took a different approach, and rather than trying to create something purely for TV, 'Exhibition Trials' had taken off, as a spectator sport, and TV companies just filmed it.

Today, arena Trials has its own World Championship status, and there's little need to create an artificial TV extravaganza to show it, and with even less money around, even less incentive to fund one. Pretty sure its already on Sky-Sports, and it does get big screening figures in other European countries, where the event promoters DO pay decent appearance money, sponsors do pay to get their banners in the arena, and the riders get something much better organised for them, not the cameras, and CAN win championship points for their efforts as well as get paid.

I remember Kick-Start fondly. I remember watching it, agog, as a kid, and wanting to have ago at it. As a trials rider, I appreciate what it tried to do, and do mourn the fact that there isn't really anything there promoting the sport in the same way, but I also appreciate why it didn't last, and why a lot of riders of the day criticised it. And I also appreciate why, today, a 'modern' Kick-Start show would be very difficult to make work, and 'fit' in the TV scheduling alongside championship arena trials.

Bikes on TV? Different question. And I have to say, we probably have never had it so good! Its not on mainstream TV and its not at peak viewing hours, but interrogate the EPG and you'll find it, and there’s a lot more hours of motorcycle sport aired now than there ever was in years passed. From World Arena Trials, to Moto GP, American Arena-Cross, to Eruo Motarding, and plenty in between.

Top Gear for bikes? Great idea, but mainstream TV wouldn't buy it. Top-Gear only has the following it does because its NOT a dedicated motoring show, its light entertainment with a few cars chucked in. Look at how 5th gear fares against it. Be very difficult to make a motorcycling magazine show, that could generate even the ratings that does.

However; look at The Long Way Round and spin offs, and the popularity of travelogues and reality shows. Plenty of opportunity to get bikes on screen, in various ways, you just have to use them as the 'gimmick' in an existing mainstream low-cost TV format.... like sticking a pair of fat women in an outfit and sending them out to cook stuff... or sticking a couple of fat bearded fellows on old classics and.... sending them out to cook stuff......

Think I’ve got it….. Fast Food on Fast Bikes…… the talent show.

We need a dozen pizza delivery boys, a bunch of Honda Melody Mopeds, and a panel of judges.

Each week, they have to learn new skills in the kitchen and on the bikes, then for the main event, they have to cook a prescribed recipe, then demonstrate their riding skills, delivering it on their moped… weaving through cones and scraping the pegs through corners….. then they get marked on the presentation & flavour of the meal, they offer the judges. The two worst entrants voted off by the public at the end of the show…. Maybe confined to an army catering barracks for the duration.

Winner gets a McBurgerChiken franchise at the end…… or maybe just a job at one…. Yeah! Get Gordon Ramsey, Simon Cowel and Carl Foggerty as the judges….. Gordon can tell the losers “Your Effin Fired’ before they go!

OK, maybe not….. mind you, compared to some of the crap their screening these days, doubt it could be much worse!
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[27cows]

Don't bring Kick Start back. It bored me then and would bore me now.

If anything is to be brought back, make it strokers in GP, and the 50cc class in the same, and abolish the cylinders and gears limit so we see stuff like the Honda 250/6 again, the modern equivalent.

MotoGP is almost as big a pile of tedious wank as F1 now
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[Paxovasa]

Junior Kickstart was the better of the two

Edit: A clip with someone called Dougie Lampkin, I bet we never hear of him again

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDuLkO1vews
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Suzuki GSF600 K3 (in the fastest colour, black).

[kingsknight]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pja9Y7JIJBg

what bike are they using there?
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TS50 (sold) NS125F (sold) NSR125R-K (write off after 2 crashes) CG125 (nicked) XR125L-3 (Sold )-: ) DR125SM '11 (sold yay) XL125V '12 (In love with this bike) XT600E '04 (fun on the dirt)

[Kickstart]

Hi

Place I did my part 1 test many years ago had a story that they had someone in to do it who was ex junior kickstart champion. Apparently did the test normally and got his certificate, and once that was safely out of the way did the whole test again in full control on one wheel.

All the best

Keith
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