CBR600RR not starting - UPDATE (04/12/10)

[Faraz]

My 2004 CBR600RR hasnt started since I washed it three weeks ago.

It keeps turning over sounding like its about to start, but doesnt.
I tried bumping it but it just keeps lurching as if it was about to start but then comes to a stop.

I changed the spark plugs today but it still isn't starting.

I don't think its related to the water because I'm pretty sure I started it straight after I washed it. I washed it the same way I have over the last year.

Seriously confused with this one.


Thanks, Faraz.
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'56 Yamaha MT-01
'05 Nissan 350z Roadster GT
3 words dude.. Fvck. Yes.

[N cee thirty]

is it actually sparking ?
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'00 Aprilia RS50 > '92 Honda CG > '99 Yamaha Fazer > '91 Yamaha RXS > '79 Suzuki X5 > 01' Honda Cg > 07' Honda Cg > 82' Kawasaki Z200 > suzuki gsxr 400 gk73a > honda vfr 400 NC30 Mod 2 Passed 09/06/2011

Jewlio Iglesias wrote: I actually did vote BNP once

[Wafer_Thin_Ham]

Is the fuel pump priming when you turn the ignition on?

Checked fuses?

Since it would seem to be water related, unplug everything you can and give it a good spray with WD40 to drive out any lingering moisture.
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[dragstaar]

battery fully charged?

[el_oso]

may sound stupid but you have plenty of fuel?
injection or carbs? tried with choke on?
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Duke 390
Previous: '05 XR125L | '96 XJ600S Diversion |'05 Suzuki GSXR1000 | '05 Honda CBR125-R | '97 YZF 600R Thundercat | '11 Honda CBR250
Car: Jeep Wrangler 4.0L

[The Tot]

His bike's fuel injected so there IS NO CHOKE. It's more than likely to be an ECU/engine management feed/signal issue as with most hondas.

Are you getting ANY diagnostic lights on your FI panel? I.e. is the red light flashing on your dash in a sequence of One long flash and a series of quicker flashes i.e. morse code? These will be your fault code readings. If it is, there's a way of finding out what these mean on google for your specific bike - type in CBR600 Fault Codes.

BUT what you're describing to me is VERY similar to what I had on my blade. Absolute refusal to start when I KNOW I had fuel and I KNOW I had spark previous to that.

I rode the blade to work fine in the wet. Tried to start it on the way home and left me dead. No fault codes or anything like that. Tried to bump and didn't fire up. Checked EVERY single switch i can find and sprayed WD40 in it.. so that was clutch switch, centre stand switch. I knew I had power because the starter motor would crank. My lights would fire up and NOT flicker. My horn was one loud and constant tone. I tried starting her up until the battery died. 5 minutes of pulsing the button. 3 seconds on, 10 seconds wait etc.

Anyway, long story short. What happened in my case was that the cam position sensor went. This is CRITICAL since it tells the engine what phase of the combustion cycle it's at and dictates when to shove the fuel in or when to spark. By default, if it DOES go, it doesn't give any sort of fault codes so just immobilises your bike - 2 mechanics at Branson's honda in gloucester told me that and said it was a common thing with CBR 929 and 954's. It maybe the same in your case. £140 part and 4 hours labour.

Trust me when I say, if it's a honda, it's bound to be electrical. My blade had 4 MAJOR electrical faults. The two non starting issues were the one that i mentioned above and the second being an earth fault. Without having any sort of electrical/electronics/C&I competence, I just left it with a garage and lumped out £500 for the Cam position sensor repair since it was a VERY LONG winded diagnosis and difficult to track unless YOU have previous experience (left it with southern cross).

A reg reg WILL NOT cause you to do that. Get a multimeter and start checking continuity on switches first as well as checking voltage between positive and earth on the battery.

If it's not a simple fix... it's going to be VERY expensive. Trust me because I've been there with a honda!
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The Tot 2019 Z1000SX - 2007 R1
Never argue with autism

[Faraz]

Thanks for all the replies, especially Tot.

There is no diagnostic lights at all and the fuel pump primes as normal. Everything is as it was before this problem.

This is exactly what I need right now, it breaks while i'm giving it a pre-sale wash.

[The Tot]

Nah man, so quickfire way for testing the problem mate. That's why my labour cost was so expensive

The garage just told me it was a matter of diagnosing ALL the switches and then troubleshooting each sequence!

I suppose if you take it to the garage and say "i suspect it's the cam position sensor" then it might save a LOT of diagnosis.

The fuel pump prime IS significant. It shows that fuel is trying to get itno the system. Seeing that you washed it and did nothing else, the fuel pipes aren't kinked or anything like that. I made double sure that my routing and vacuum lines were clear.

When my bike wouldn't start. Sequence would go as

1) Key in
2) Killswitch Off
3) Fuel pump whirrs and primes
4) Sidestand up
5) Starter button
6) Starter solonoid clicks
7) Starter motor kicks in and tries to fire up
8) Engine is trying to turn over but not catching.

Is yours very similar to that?

Oh, when I was doing my fault finding, I read on fireblades.org that hondas also like letting go of bank angle sensors too!

Best bet is to ring up a GOOD honda dealer/garage and run over the problem with them. Any honda mechanic worth his salt will know most common issues with their bikes.. then take it to your local. In my case, my LOCAL IS ALSO a honda dealer and the mechanics have briefed me on WHAT could go wrong with my 929. He said that I've already experienced 75% of commonly encountered problems on my bike and rectified them. Spending all that cash, it seems ridiculous to sell.

If I were you, repair bike and get it sold quick. My track record suggests that if you get ONE fault, they will ALL happen successively i.e. within a matter of months!

Your bike's an 04 rite? Just trying to see if it's an age related issue because Stuart (my mechanic at Bransons) said that once they're 5+ years old, that's when the problems start cropping up. Honda being electrically related issues. I could try and ask him what might be wrong with 600RR's and if they have issues with the sensors.

Let's just hope it's something simple.
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The Tot 2019 Z1000SX - 2007 R1
Never argue with autism

[Faraz]

[The Tot]

Aah, is that the honda dealers near Craigmillar? You're based in Wallyford rite?

Yeah, if that's the case, then I'd ring them up and ask have there been ANY known issues with 600RR's with cam position sensors.

Define your problem and then you're at least one step closer to finding it out.

Cam position sensors like I said are 140 quid + 1 hour labour. Hopefully they can track the problem to this

Good luck mate
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The Tot 2019 Z1000SX - 2007 R1
Never argue with autism

[Faraz]

[The Tot]

Good luck with it mate. Do keep this post updated because I'd be interested to see what the actual problem was. I was very disappointed when I found that Honda DO have a lot of electrical problems and would have crippled me financially if I did't have a job or a good dealer network.

All the best mate!
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The Tot 2019 Z1000SX - 2007 R1
Never argue with autism

[Faraz]

Okay,

So I managed to source a camshaft sensor.

Fitted it today, connect the power pack, hit the button and..

LIFE!!


Let it idle for about 30 seconds, blipped the throttle and it dies.

Now it wont start again.

Havent tried bumping it yet.

I spoke to the owner of a large Edinburgh bike showroom who's a friend of my dad's, explained the whole situation and he claims its a 90% chance its the fuel. He said drain it and put in some fresh fuel.

Im not convinced.


Anybody know where to go from here?

Cheers.
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'56 Yamaha MT-01
'05 Nissan 350z Roadster GT
3 words dude.. Fvck. Yes.

[salty21]

i'd guess at a wiring fault. Most of the problems i have had with my honda's, more so on the 600rr have been down to failed/corroded wiring.

You may have disturbed part of the loom when fitting the new cam sensor which would explain why it worked breifly.

I would suggest to check all the wiring related to the sensor for continuity as a start.

From what i can see in the manual there are 2 wires, one is grey and the other is green/orange. The grey one goes directly to the ecu and is the only grey wire so should be easy to find.
The green/orange goes to a 12 pin connector (under the tank iirc) and comes out the other side in white/yellow, then joins the ignition pulse generator.

If you need, i can send you the wiring pdf via email or whatever.
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04 NSR 125(sold) ---- 03 CBR 600rr(sold) ----90 pan euro ST1100 '' ----02 CG 125
94 CB400 Super Four ---- 2000 VTR SP1 (sold) ---- 08 ninja p8f(sold, meh) ----05 CBR600rr

[Faraz]

Well, after all that shit, it turns out to be the fuel after all.

Drained the fuel tank, put in a bit of fresh fuel, turned it over for a while and it roars in to life.

Man I've missed that sound.

I guess it must have sucked something from the bottom on the tank.



Thanks for all the suggestions.
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'56 Yamaha MT-01
'05 Nissan 350z Roadster GT
3 words dude.. Fvck. Yes.