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Hetzer
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PostPosted: 15:49 - 09 Dec 2010    Post subject: Japan vs NHS Reply with quote

My daughter bumped her head a couple of days ago and has been moaning about feeling sick, headaches etc to skive in the nurse's office at school. Finally Noriko took her to hospital where they gave her a CT scan and an x-ray. For a bumped head. All clear.

Meanwhile, back in the UK..."CT scan sir? That'll be a six month wait."

Laughing
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Hetzer
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PostPosted: 15:54 - 09 Dec 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Should mention that it cost Y9000 (about £68) but 66% of that is covered by their medical insurance.
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t121anf
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PostPosted: 16:05 - 09 Dec 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

must admit i've not had much experience with the NHS personally, but my wife has due to having had cancer.

they were nothing but excellent, CT scans when required and on date/time as arranged. operated as soon as the problem was diagnosed, private room, friendly staff.

only problem was in the diagnosis as it was a very rare type of cancer and it was "mis-diagnosed" a few times.
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Hetzer
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PostPosted: 16:11 - 09 Dec 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

My point was that you'd have more chance of a flight on the space-shuttle than a CT-scan for a bumped head in the UK. Unless you were one of the scum at the top, then you'd get one if a ping-pong ball hit you in the head.
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t121anf
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PostPosted: 16:36 - 09 Dec 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

true, but was a CT scan really necessary? suppose for the cost and reassurance it's worth it
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schooleydoo
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PostPosted: 16:38 - 09 Dec 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shouldn't this be Japan VS Bupa/BMI etc?

Unless I too have missed the point, you are comparing apples and oranges...The option is available to all of us in the UK to take the route you have described.

I have to admit, I am rather keen on the NHS' 12 year wait times. It keeps my borderline hypochondria at bay Laughing
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Hetzer
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PostPosted: 16:44 - 09 Dec 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

t121anf wrote:
true, but was a CT scan really necessary? suppose for the cost and reassurance it's worth it


No, it wasn't, and I did have a pop about her crying wolf.

Don't think you'd get a CT-scan for a bumped head under BUPA/BMI either. Do you really think they'd give you something for your installments unless you were brought in in an ambulance, pissing blood from the ears?

"Hello BUPA receptionist, my daughter bumped her head a couple of days ago and I have a health package with you, so can you give her a CT-scan please? Like now?"

"Fuck off, you mug. Er...hang on, you're not a member of the royal family are you? Or a cabinet-minister's kin?"

"No."

"Sorted...fuck off."
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Marcg868
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PostPosted: 16:50 - 09 Dec 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

The NHS is a good idea in theory! However its badly managed. I have private Healthcare as i have a few existing health problems. But obviously for Emergency stuff i use the NHS.

One thing that does get me, i had went to my GP for him to refer me to a consultant for a Hernia, this was december 2009, i had one operation cancelled without being told, i had to ring up and ask and my second date March 2011!!!

I took out private health insurance paid £100 excess charge and had the operation when it was convenient for me.
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Hetzer
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PostPosted: 16:55 - 09 Dec 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

bwfc4eva86 wrote:
The NHS is a good idea in theory! However its badly managed. I have private Healthcare as i have a few existing health problems. But obviously for Emergency stuff i use the NHS.

One thing that does get me, i had went to my GP for him to refer me to a consultant for a Hernia, this was december 2009, i had one operation cancelled without being told, i had to ring up and ask and my second date March 2011!!!

I took out private health insurance paid £100 excess charge and had the operation when it was convenient for me.


I think the NHS is best viewed as an A&E system. Yes, you can get treatment for non-accident issues, but it's always a question of if you can get treatment for the issue before dying of it. Or going insane with pain. Etc.

That sounds like a result with the hernia op though. How much is the monthly vig?
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Marcg868
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PostPosted: 17:02 - 09 Dec 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hetzer wrote:
bwfc4eva86 wrote:
The NHS is a good idea in theory! However its badly managed. I have private Healthcare as i have a few existing health problems. But obviously for Emergency stuff i use the NHS.

One thing that does get me, i had went to my GP for him to refer me to a consultant for a Hernia, this was december 2009, i had one operation cancelled without being told, i had to ring up and ask and my second date March 2011!!!

I took out private health insurance paid £100 excess charge and had the operation when it was convenient for me.


I think the NHS is best viewed as an A&E system. Yes, you can get treatment for non-accident issues, but it's always a question of if you can get treatment for the issue before dying of it. Or going insane with pain. Etc.

That sounds like a result with the hernia op though. How much is the monthly vig?


Its £30 a month, its alot of money, but i keep getting recurrent Hernia's due to my job (Student Nurse & HCA in the NHS)

But i got wonderful care, my own room and i don't know what they did different, but I felt a hell of alot better after the Op than when i did after having it under the NHS.


I cant knock the NHS Cancer services tho, Christies in Manchester looked after my Gran and Step Dad and really showed the good side of the NHS.
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 17:17 - 09 Dec 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah but Hetzer you've just pointed out the EXACT problem with the US (and Japanese it seems) healthcare system.

Any doctor worth his salt would have been able to tell from a simple (and surprisingly cheap) X-Ray that there was nothing wrong with your daughter. To be honest, for a decent quack an X ray might even be going too far.

However, she's covered by insurance, so the docs in Japan do a CT scan so they can take their slice. Its a much more money grubbing capitalist system than the NHS is. Sure, sometimes the NHS is slow but it does have equality at heart. Surely this is egalitarian and more in line with the Hetzer principles than a money grubbing insurance system?

If I were to make a Hetzer 'cool wall' then the US and Japanese system would be under 'Scvm' and the NHS would be under 'Acceptable'.

(If anyone is interested the four headings on my Hetzer 'cool wall are thus:

Salvia
Acceptable
Scvm
Total Scvm of governmental incompetence and corruptness

Not bad considering I've just made that up there and then! Wink
)
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dodsi
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PostPosted: 17:19 - 09 Dec 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Japan Vs NHS


Well, I like Japan... But I am also quite a fan of the NHS... but which one is better?
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The Artist
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PostPosted: 17:32 - 09 Dec 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

dodsi wrote:
Quote:
Japan Vs NHS


Well, I like Japan... But I am also quite a fan of the NHS... but which one is better?


Only one way to find out.

FIIIGHHTTTT
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Hetzer
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PostPosted: 17:39 - 09 Dec 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

MarJay wrote:
Ah but Hetzer you've just pointed out the EXACT problem with the US (and Japanese it seems) healthcare system.

Any doctor worth his salt would have been able to tell from a simple (and surprisingly cheap) X-Ray that there was nothing wrong with your daughter. To be honest, for a decent quack an X ray might even be going too far.

However, she's covered by insurance, so the docs in Japan do a CT scan so they can take their slice. Its a much more money grubbing capitalist system than the NHS is. Sure, sometimes the NHS is slow but it does have equality at heart. Surely this is egalitarian and more in line with the Hetzer principles than a money grubbing insurance system?

If I were to make a Hetzer 'cool wall' then the US and Japanese system would be under 'Scvm' and the NHS would be under 'Acceptable'.

(If anyone is interested the four headings on my Hetzer 'cool wall are thus:

Salvia
Acceptable
Scvm
Total Scvm of governmental incompetence and corruptness

Not bad considering I've just made that up there and then! Wink
)


There was a chance that she had a bleed in her skull. The Jipnaps would have picked that up immediately, the NHS probably wouldn't have.

What it comes down to is how much is a population prepared to man up and accept that people can and do die from minor incidents. It's a cost/resource to achievement ratio ting going on. I'm fine with manning up, so long as that goes equally for evereyone. What I won't stomach is better healthcare for those who can afford it.
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Mr.Everready
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PostPosted: 17:42 - 09 Dec 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
What I won't stomach is better healthcare for those who can afford it.


So what health care system do they have in Japan then ? You've said yourself that your wife pays medical insurance, what happens to those who can't afford it ?

Will some peasant farmer get the same treatment as your children who can afford to pay ?
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herulach
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PostPosted: 17:48 - 09 Dec 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

I fainted on the footpath whilst locking my (push) bike up, hit my head (with a helmet on) and they did a CT (presuming it was a CT, stuck my head in a big tube) despite the fact that I still had my helmet on and was outwardly fine. Think I waited about 2 hours.

Private healthcare schemes are well known for massively increasing the amount of time a patient spends in hospital, as well as the number of 'treatments' they undergo, because the incentives are wrong.

True, the NHS can be slow for some non-essential services (psychotherapy, physio etc) but I'd rather that than the bullshit they have in most countries. THat being said, I'd actually prefer a nordic style Big Tax & awesome services type regime. Unfortunately people don't seem to understand that you can't have everything be amazing without paying for it.
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DanceLikeAMon...
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PostPosted: 17:53 - 09 Dec 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Christ, this sounds like those Australians that I constantly meet who tell me how fantastic life in Oz is compared to the UK. Odd thing is that I've never been to Australia....
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Hetzer
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PostPosted: 17:54 - 09 Dec 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr.Everready wrote:
Quote:
What I won't stomach is better healthcare for those who can afford it.


So what health care system do they have in Japan then ? You've said yourself that your wife pays medical insurance, what happens to those who can't afford it ?

Will some peasant farmer get the same treatment as your children who can afford to pay ?


Her parents have it and added her and the kids. I don't agree with it in principle but I'm in no position to have any influence.

I'm not sure how it works for those without insurance. You'd get A&E treatment without it but I doubt you'd get a cat-scan for a bumped head. I was sent a bill after A&E treatment once (crash insurance picked it up but the hospital didn't know I had it prior to treatment).
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silky666
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PostPosted: 18:31 - 09 Dec 2010    Post subject: Re: Japan vs NHS Reply with quote

Hetzer wrote:

Meanwhile, back in the UK..."CT scan sir? That'll be a six month wait."
Laughing

Not true.
In the UK, if they have a child with nausea and headaches after hitting head ... they will work on them rapidly.
That bit is fact.

The following is open to interpretation or argument.
Now, whether or not she needed a CT scan is a different story.
Of course with your internet doctoring knowledge, she did need this and it made you feel so much better.
It may have just been a total waste of time and money ... but hey, they got paid/claimed on the insurance.

Another post bashing the UK. Rolling Eyes
The NHS, when you really need it, is fantastic.
My explanation behind "when you really need it" is:
1) Front line staff dealing with the flotsam and jetsam of a Saturday night may be poor.
2) If you, having browsed the internet and concluded that you need a brain operation, pop into a hospital with a sore head ... then yes you may get an inadequate service.
3) But when you are in real need for something life saving ... the NHS works well.

My experience of the NHS:
1) My daughter has needed emergency treatment twice in her 10 yrs.
We walk into the hospital .... within 20 seconds a path is cleared for us .... and the drunks with busted noses (no doubt as a consequence of meeting Mr.Hetzer on a grumpy night) are told to shut up and sit down.
We are seen to immediately.

2) The one time I needed something (not an actual emergency) ... I had unexplained headaches (ie: like your daughter).
I was having a CT scan and seeing 2 specialists (sinus and nerve stuff) within a week.
I suspect if I had just bumped my head it would have been that day, depending on symptoms of course.
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Itchy
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PostPosted: 18:35 - 09 Dec 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Life is cheap though, it is marginally less cheap in Japan due to the ultra low birth rate.

The Zaibatsus and government have to look after their comodities their slaves best they can. While in the UK has a similarly low birth rate it isn't as bad as japan what with loads of chavistas using it to get out of their predicament.
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 19:25 - 09 Dec 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

While I agree the NHS works well for emergencies and for lots of headline routine treatment, I am not so sure it always works that well. Get out of an area that is measured or into one which the figures can be fiddled and you might have a problem.

My better half spent 7 years on crutches following a car accident, much of that due to a lousy job being done when her leg was first pinned. It was eventually sorted by the NHS once she managed to get referred to Oswestry, but until they started dealing with it the general thread of check ups was "How many months since you broke your leg" "Three years" "Oh, see you in another 6 months". Getting an appointment was measured. Doing anything useful when things were not going right wasn't measured so irrelevant.

I do prefer the NHS to any system of insurance, but the trouble is keeping things working without hideous inefficiency (either from nothing being done, or much of the effort going on instead proving things have been done or fiddling the figures so it looks like it was done).

All the best

Keith
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colin1
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PostPosted: 19:50 - 09 Dec 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with marjay, that a system which generously provides high level stuff above and beyond what's needed, may seem good for the individual, but may be bad for the country.

I suspect the problems described by kickstart, are due to the NHS being very hard to run efficiently.
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The Shaggy D.A.
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PostPosted: 19:52 - 09 Dec 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Artist wrote:
dodsi wrote:
Well, I like Japan... But I am also quite a fan of the NHS... but which one is better?


Only one way to find out.

FIIIGHHTTTT


Clear winner Smile
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Ariel Badger
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PostPosted: 20:11 - 09 Dec 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hetzer wrote:
Should mention that it cost Y9000 (about £68) but 66% of that is covered by their medical insurance.


So in Japan sick children need to pay 34% of medical bills even with insurance. You are very lucky she did not need much treatment and incur a hefty bill In the UK I know a girl of 18 from a working class family that has received over £500000 worth of treatment in the last few months. It has cost her family nothing.
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silky666
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PostPosted: 20:16 - 09 Dec 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Shaggy D.A. wrote:

Not True.
The Japanese version of the NHS is Kokumin-Kenkō-Hoken (national health insurance ... as opposed to employee health insurance)

This Is The Clear Winner Smile
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