Wandsworth Council Stasi

[tatters]

Looks like the spying stasi scum at Wandsworth Council have caught me on one of there CCTV cameras down queens road near the bridge going over the thames, as l,ve got a £120 fine for "38L failing to comply with a sign indicating that vehicular traffic must pass to the specified side of the sign".


Bit of searching shows quite a few bikers have been caught by this cammera while filtering through the heavy traffic there.


If it was a copper stopping me fair enough (which l had around 6 years ago in kingston when the fine was only £30) but a bloody CCTV cammera FFS!
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Past:NRG50,AF1125(x2),NSR125RR,ZZR250,CX500,VFR400,KR1S,ZZR600(x2),CB400N,YZF1000(x2),KH125,Z200,FX400R,CBR954RR(x2)GPZ500S,GT550,VFR750F(x2),RD350N,XR650R,CBR600F,CB250,KDX250,YZF750R,CRM250,400EXC,KLR650,TTR600RE,DR350S,R100GSPD,RGV250,VMAX1200,DL650,KZ750 Present:G650XC,C12,CRF450X,1190ADV

[Itchy]

Its been going on for a while, parking tickets are now enforced by CCTV.... but hey gotta pay that 4 trillion of debt somehow
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Spain 2008France 2007Big one 2009 We all die. The goal isn't to live forever, the goal is to create something that will. In the end, your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.

[Hetzer]

[tatters]

All the years of me commuting/working from a bike in london l,ve genrally done quite well with my run-ins with councils.

Westminster have ticketed me 4 times and each one l,ve got off after appealing with the last one being a few months ago were someone fortuntly took a pair of cutters to the enforcment sgin making it unenforcable.

though looks like l,m not going to be able to fight this one unless a techically shows its self.
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Past:NRG50,AF1125(x2),NSR125RR,ZZR250,CX500,VFR400,KR1S,ZZR600(x2),CB400N,YZF1000(x2),KH125,Z200,FX400R,CBR954RR(x2)GPZ500S,GT550,VFR750F(x2),RD350N,XR650R,CBR600F,CB250,KDX250,YZF750R,CRM250,400EXC,KLR650,TTR600RE,DR350S,R100GSPD,RGV250,VMAX1200,DL650,KZ750 Present:G650XC,C12,CRF450X,1190ADV

[Rogerborg]

[Hetzer]

[DJH]

Wheres Queens road in Wandsworth?

[Livefast123]

What kind of bullshit sign is that, Do councils now have the right to design their own road signs and enforce at will?? Thank god North Somerset council don't have the intelligence to do that

Personally I would have a look at the sign and the legalities around it eg size, background colours, shape etc Also as it is maybe not as a sign under the RTA have they given you any warning of a fine or the consequences of breaking it. They would also have to have a local bylaw giving the sign the power to be enforced.

A normal fail to comply fine (Not no entry etc) would be £30 so how the hell do they get to charge £120....Thieving bastards

As said 38L is probably the waist size of the council desk pilot making these tickets up. I don't think councils are any better than clampers these days.
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Current ride - Yamaha MT-07

[Livefast123]

Also if the fine is being enforced by CCTV it might be worth questioning if the evidence is recorded onto a secure media that nobody could possibly tamper with or alter.

Would be also worth checking time/date stamp and the location is correct.
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Current ride - Yamaha MT-07

[Marmalade]

also the cctv must be aproved for evidence collection and signs in the area to say evideence is being collected by cctv
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Nobby the Bastard: How yo tell the difference between the actual japanese and her just screaming because she's had live fish stuck up her arse? [url=https://www.nicks-shop.co.uk/bcf-goodies-15-c.aspGet BCF stickers and things here[/url] Reflective helmet stickers - Legal requirement in france - Clicky

[tatters]

The sign was a white directional arrow on blue background on central island, which l belive is a enforceable traffic offence as l,ve been done for it before by the police.


Below is photos of a guy who was done by the same cammera at the same keep left arrow a few months ago.
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Past:NRG50,AF1125(x2),NSR125RR,ZZR250,CX500,VFR400,KR1S,ZZR600(x2),CB400N,YZF1000(x2),KH125,Z200,FX400R,CBR954RR(x2)GPZ500S,GT550,VFR750F(x2),RD350N,XR650R,CBR600F,CB250,KDX250,YZF750R,CRM250,400EXC,KLR650,TTR600RE,DR350S,R100GSPD,RGV250,VMAX1200,DL650,KZ750 Present:G650XC,C12,CRF450X,1190ADV

[Livefast123]

That is a bog standard keep left arrow which carries a non endorsable fine of £30.

As the offence is already catered for under the Road Traffic Act 1988 and has a tariff set for it I don't see how they can get away with fining you £120.

The offence is a RTA offence, how have the council suddenly got the power to enforce this or are they doing it under the guise of a civil prosecution 83L.
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Current ride - Yamaha MT-07

[Livefast123]

Your only way out of this is going to be on a technicality or on the fact that the council are trying to extort an extra £90 from you than if a cop stopped you.

1.Are there signs stating traffic enforcement camera's in place and how many.
2.Is the CCTV a recorded on a secure media and is there an evidential trail from camera to it being produced.
3.Why are they extorting £120 for a £30 traffic offence. I'm sure the press would love to know.
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Current ride - Yamaha MT-07

[Rogerborg]

What you'll want to read is Section 72 of the Traffic Management Act 2004.

You'll then want to ask for copies of all the regulations and notices specified in that legislation, including detailed descriptions of dates, areas, authorities (again, is "Wandsworth Council" incorporated? If not, who exactly is demanding payment from you?), and "approved devices", as well as copies of their evidence against you.

Because it's a civil matter, they have no obligation to supply you with any of the above - at this point, they're just demanding money from you.

But make it clear that you won't be paying their demand, and will happily see them in a court of law, where it will be their burden to show that all of those regulations, orders, notices and evidence exist.

[multijoy]

It's London, so dealt with by the parking tribunal- you won't get to go in front of a magistrate, even if you wanted to.

Appeal it. They'll deny it out of principle. Appeal it again, they'll deny it but provide you with the paperwork to go to the tribunal. Fill it in, they'll then drop it as they'll have to send the camera operator tho the hearing etc. etc.

[Livefast123]

What I don't get is why a parking tribunal would deal with a RTA offence and how can they fine you £120 when the tariff set down in law is £30?

Do they apply for a bylaw or a traffic regulation to legally rob you. Not being from London this is all new to me.
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Current ride - Yamaha MT-07

[multijoy]

What Rogerborg said- Traffic Management Act '04 is what allows them to do so.

Basically, this allows for civil enforcement of certain offences. That doesn't mean that the police can't do you for them, but it's one or t'other.

On the plus side, you're not ending up with a criminal record for what are fairly minor breaches.

On the downside, you get to deal with local authorities.

I can only assume that the reason Londoners have to play a slightly different game is the the proximity of 101 different local authorities and TFL, all merging into one massive jurisdictional clusterfuck, with the added complication of dealing with offences on a massive scale.

TBH, I'd rather go in front of a tribunal if I were using a technical defence rather than a lay bench or a district judge- the former wouldn't understand and the latter would be fingering the black cap before you even drew breath!

Anyway, they'll back down before it goes to the tribunal because you can guarantee that they'll be something wrong- traffic signs, notices, road markings, announcements- they'll have fucked up somewhere along the line and it'll cost more for them to wheel out a lawyer, council officer and the camera operator then they'll recoup in enforcing the notice. IIRC, the tribunal can only award very limited costs, and you'll still only be liable to pay the discounted rate.

Here's the one I got them to drop!
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'11 CBF1000A, '99 C90, '98 CB500
silky666: He rode amazingly well considering his bike is the weight of a small van and had slicks on.

[27cows]

It's fucking scandalous Don't pay it. Offer to do time in prison instead - that always shuts them the fuck up because it would cost them quite a bit to lock you up, even if for only a few days.
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The RXS100: vehicle of choice for Chuck Norris

[Beelzebob]

All this ranting, and nobody has said 'stay the right [i.e. left] side of the fucking bollard'.

Don't get me wrong, I agree it's shit if they're trying to do you for 4 times the value of the offence - and support your efforts to ensure that you are punished in a fair way (if at all) - but if you hadn't done it in the first place you wouldn't be in this position.
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'09 YBR 125 -> '92 XJ600 S Diversion -> '99 Hornet 600

"Stronger than your average female lifeguard"

[multijoy]

[Livefast123]

Correct Actions = consequences etc

Where does this stop though............every CCTV camera waiting to pounce on you for a minor offence then charge you 4 times what the state would if you committed the same offence.

If they are prosecuting you for these offences I would expect them to be able to produce evidence in the same way as the police have to.
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Current ride - Yamaha MT-07

[Paulington]

[Mister James]

[27cows]

[Paivi]