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Paulington
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Joined: 11 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: 04:23 - 12 Dec 2010    Post subject: HID Systems Reply with quote
Are HID Systems worth the money you pay for them?

I've noticed the lights on the Mondeo, whilst they are okay and decent for night usage, they are quite yellow and that looks quite nasty whilst being "decent" doesn't really cut it, I like to be able to see as if it's almost daylight.

I won't mind paying the £70 for a HID conversion kit if they do make a vast difference to both light used to illuminate the road and get rid of the nasty yellow tinge in the headlights?

Also, when it comes to it, is it better to buy a full HID conversion kit (Specifically for my model Mondeo, not some generic crap) or just buy some 5000K Xenon bulbs and put them in instead? They are cheaper but not sure if they will work as well.

Anyone give me any info? Cheers. Wub.
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herulach
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PostPosted: 05:42 - 12 Dec 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
don't get 5000k bulbs, they're just normal ones with a blue tint, and actually put out less light than a good standard bulb (vision plus, nightbreaker etc).

Do you have projectors or reflector lights? If it's projectors I'd say go for it, if not leave them with real bulbs. HIDs are too bright for reflectors, you should have MOT issues and you'll just dazzle everyone.
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MattHirst
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PostPosted: 05:47 - 12 Dec 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Also, i believe it is now illegal to retrofit HID lights. Your lights must be auto levelling and have washer jets that squirt onto them.

This may only be applicable to vehicles made before/after a certain date but it's to late to be searching around Very Happy
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herulach
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PostPosted: 07:11 - 12 Dec 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
MattHirst wrote:
Also, i believe it is now illegal to retrofit HID lights. Your lights must be auto levelling and have washer jets that squirt onto them.

This may only be applicable to vehicles made before/after a certain date but it's to late to be searching around Very Happy


IIRC thats always been the case, judging by the amount of cars I see with poorly fitted HID conversions though MOT men can't be very up on it.
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Paulington
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PostPosted: 07:44 - 12 Dec 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
I will read up on that law, will be interesting to see.

If it does get fitted it will be done by a professional mechanic we know locally, guy is brilliant at his job. That way it won't look stupid and shoddy hah!
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Current Vehicles: '89 Kawasaki KDX200, '99 Yamaha XV535, '00 Honda ST1100 Pan-European, '08 Suzuki GSX-R1000, '08 Mitsubishi Lancer GS4 2.0 TDCi, '15 BMW 1 Series 116d Sport Turbo.
CBT: 27/08/08. Theory: 04/09/09. Module 1: 16/09/09. Module 2: 01/10/09.
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Ol
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PostPosted: 07:44 - 12 Dec 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
MattHirst wrote:
your lights must have washer jets that squirt onto them.


Cant imagine that's right - i've only ever seen volvo's with headlight jets on.

I'm currently looking round for a new car... It's down to either the Audi A5, Volvo C70, Mercedes C-Class Coupe (out in march) laguna coupe GT or 6 month old CLK - the're all £30+k cars, and only the volvo has headlight jets...
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Paulington
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PostPosted: 08:52 - 12 Dec 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ol wrote:
MattHirst wrote:
your lights must have washer jets that squirt onto them.


Cant imagine that's right - i've only ever seen volvo's with headlight jets on.

I'm currently looking round for a new car... It's down to either the Audi A5, Volvo C70, Mercedes C-Class Coupe (out in march) laguna coupe GT or 6 month old CLK - the're all £30+k cars, and only the volvo has headlight jets...

I was thinking that too, cars with headlight washers are so rare from what I've seen it surely can't be law that if you have HIDs you need washer jets on the headlights.

Also, we have a near 30k car sat on the drive and for comfort, ease of drive and what we'd pick, me and my Dad prefer my £5000 worth of Ford Mondeo than the £26k Mitsubishi Lancer GS4 (Bought two years ago, was a far bit more expensive then!)

Unless you have your heart set, why not look at some older cars unless you are going on finance, just a thought. Smile.
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Current Vehicles: '89 Kawasaki KDX200, '99 Yamaha XV535, '00 Honda ST1100 Pan-European, '08 Suzuki GSX-R1000, '08 Mitsubishi Lancer GS4 2.0 TDCi, '15 BMW 1 Series 116d Sport Turbo.
CBT: 27/08/08. Theory: 04/09/09. Module 1: 16/09/09. Module 2: 01/10/09.
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SpicyBlimp
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PostPosted: 12:05 - 12 Dec 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
All new cars with HID's are auto levelling and have washers fitted, iirc all cars ever to have 'proper' Xenon HID's have to have them.

Retrofitting is apparently a bit of a grey area, but if you have reflector based lights don't bother, you'll just get an awful spread and dazzle everyone Thumbs Up

Quote:
Cant imagine that's right - i've only ever seen volvo's with headlight jets on.

I'm currently looking round for a new car... It's down to either the Audi A5, Volvo C70, Mercedes C-Class Coupe (out in march) laguna coupe GT or 6 month old CLK - the're all £30+k cars, and only the volvo has headlight jets...


If they have Xenon headlights, they will have washers, probably pop-up ones from the bumper.
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SpicyBlimp
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PostPosted: 12:24 - 12 Dec 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Found the info about the legalities Thumbs Up

Quote:
Fact sheet: Department of Transport: Aftermarket HID headlamps
December 2006

In the Department's view it is not legal to sell or use after market HID lighting kits, for converting conventional Halogen headlamps to HID Xenon. If a customer wants to convert his vehicle to Xenon HID he must purchase completely new Xenon HID headlamps. The reason for this is that the existing lens and reflector are designed around a Halogen filament bulb, working to very precise tolerances. If one places a HID "burner" (bulb) in the headlamp, the beam pattern will not be correct, there will be glare in some places and not enough light in other places within the beam pattern.

The following is the legal rationale:

The Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations 1989 regulate the situation in the UK.
Under these Regulations, HID/Gas Discharge/Xenon headlamps are not mentioned and therefore they are not permitted according to the strict letter of the law.

However new vehicles have HID headlamps. This is because they comply to European type approval Regulations. The UK cannot refuse to register a vehicle with a European type approval. These are to ECE Regulation 98 (for the HID headlamps which are tested on a rig in a laboratory) and ECE Regulation 48 (Lighting Installation on the vehicle).

For the after market, a used vehicle cannot obtain type approval because it is only applicable for new vehicles. However we feel that saying "HID is banned in the after market" would not be reasonable. Instead we should make analogies with new vehicles. It would be reasonable to require HID in the after market to meet the same safety standards as on new vehicles. The same level of safety should apply.

Therefore a HID headlamp unit sold in the after market should:

1. be type approved to ECE Regulation 98 as a component.

2. when fitted to the vehicle should enable ECE Regulation 48 to be complied with (although no government inspection will take place).

3. Comply with RVLR as far as "use" is concerned.

In practice this means:

1. The headlamp unit (outer lens, reflector, bulb) shall be type approved to ECE 98 and be "e-marked" to demonstrate this. That can only be done by the headlamp supplier - Hella, Valeo etc. who must test the headlamp in an independent laboratory.

2. Once fitted to the vehicle it must have headlamp cleaning and self-levelling (which can be for the headlamp or can be in the vehicle suspension - some expensive estate cars have "self-levelling suspension" and that is adequate). Also the dipped beam must stay on with the main beam.

3. The headlamp must be maintained in good working order, kept clean, and aligned/adjusted correctly like any other headlamp.

Under the Road Traffic Act 1988 it is an offence to supply, fit or use vehicle parts which are not legal.

In summary it is not permitted to convert an existing halogen headlamp unit for use with HID bulbs. The entire headlamp unit must be replaced with one designed and approved for use with HID bulbs and it must be installed in accordance with the rules stated above.

If you require any further information regarding the regulations covered by this fact sheet, please contact the DfT at the address below:

Transport Technology and Standards 6
Department for Transport
Zone 2/04
Great Minster House
76 Marsham Street
London
SW1P 4DR

Telephone: 020 7944 2078
Fax: 020 7944 2196
Email: [email protected]
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ian789
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Joined: 09 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: 12:25 - 12 Dec 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
MattHirst wrote:
Also, i believe it is now illegal to retrofit HID lights. Your lights must be auto levelling and have washer jets that squirt onto them.

This may only be applicable to vehicles made before/after a certain date but it's to late to be searching around Very Happy


You hit the nail on the head,

https://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roadsafety/drs/hidheadlamps
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0l0dom0l0
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PostPosted: 12:35 - 12 Dec 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
I bought some xenon bulbs for my bike. They were identical to normal bulbs, just the colour was different.

I went for 6000k with a blue filter, and they were really white and did do a better job than the heap of shit that was on there before. Its always easier to see things with white light than yellow light.

Don't go for anything more than 6000k though, it starts getting stupidly blue and just looks crap.

If your lights are good, and you only want to change the colour, buy some xenon bulbs off ebay. I used a company called xenonuk. For the £10 its defiantly worth it. Try that first before you go spending millions on HID kits.
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Finglonga
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PostPosted: 12:48 - 12 Dec 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ol wrote:
MattHirst wrote:
your lights must have washer jets that squirt onto them.


Cant imagine that's right - i've only ever seen volvo's with headlight jets on.




My BMW has them as does every other with HID lights but the washers are behind body coloured panels that pop out every 10 screen washes you do.
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dragstaar
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PostPosted: 12:51 - 12 Dec 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
HIDs are brilliant. They put out a much brighter light and make night driving so much easier. i have a kit on my bike.

These are some seriously Bright lights, so you need to ensure that the lights are angled correctly so as to not dazzle other road users.

Retro-fitting HIDs are illegal, and thus, HID conversion kits are illegal for road use. However, i think you can get away with it if they aren't pointed straight up at someone's face, because they will be seriously blinding.

The brightest HIDs you can get are 4300K. Uncommon to popular belief, HIDs do not get brighter the higher you go. Up to 4300k the light output is brighter, the lower end gives a yellow tint. 4300k and higher, the output begins to get duller, but has a blue tint. People go for the 6000k bulbs if they like the looks of that slight blue tint.

HIDs need a transformer or ballast in order to work properly. They require a single output of 12,000 Volts in order to ignite the xenon gas in the bulb, then they settle at a running of a much lower voltage. True HID bulbs do not have a filament, and creat light by producing an arc of light.

If you want to be fully legal, then you will have to fit a whole new headlight unit with auto-levelling so as to not dazzle other road users. However, you can purchas HID conversion kits for a fraction of the price on Ebay.

Be careful which one you order, make sure they are the right fitment for you car/bike, ie. H7, H4, 9006 etc

But i'd defo recommend them
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Phoenix
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PostPosted: 17:41 - 12 Dec 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
dragstaar wrote:
HIDs need a transformer or ballast in order to work properly.


To work at all...

Don't buy chinese HID's, they blind everyone and nobody aims them properly and even if they do it doesn't work properly and every tiny bump you hit sends this dazzling beam straight into peoples line of sight while driving. If you cannot see on normal bulbs then get yourself some glasses or stop driving at night.

Rob yarr, you say your beam now goes all the way up the road, have you ever wondered what this looks like from the perspective of another driver coming towards you, bearing in mind people drive at different heights, motorbike, car, 4x4, truck, bus. Surely when you're lighting up the entire road you should think that maybe your pissing everyone off and being selfish?

It's a personal hate of mine and I wish coppers would start doing people for it (along with incorrect foglight use).
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Flip
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PostPosted: 18:16 - 12 Dec 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'm sick of being blinded by bright white headlights. Sad Thumbs Down
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Phoenix
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PostPosted: 18:18 - 12 Dec 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
rob yarrr wrote:
every cunt has main beam on now anyway so not a fuck is given.


Yep, everyone else does it so i'll join them, bravo Thumbs Up
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herulach
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PostPosted: 23:56 - 12 Dec 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
0l0dom0l0 wrote:
I bought some xenon bulbs for my bike. They were identical to normal bulbs, just the colour was different.

I went for 6000k with a blue filter, and they were really white and did do a better job than the heap of shit that was on there before. Its always easier to see things with white light than yellow light.

Don't go for anything more than 6000k though, it starts getting stupidly blue and just looks crap.

If your lights are good, and you only want to change the colour, buy some xenon bulbs off ebay. I used a company called xenonuk. For the £10 its defiantly worth it. Try that first before you go spending millions on HID kits.


Your 6000K lights output less light than a non tinted bulb, this is an indisputable fact, the blue filter blocks a significant amount of energy leaving the bulb. Blue light appears brighter due to the way your eye works, however, it is actually harder to see things under.

I share your frustations with the fazer's craptacular headlights, although the headlight mod together with Philips Visionplus/Osram Nightbreaker bulbs vastly improves things. I've also rewired my loom with heavier gauge wiring to get about an extra volt across them (Output of halogen lamps is proportional to V^3).

Apologies for the OT rant, but I've just got in from a couple of hours on the motorway, and I honestly think theres a special circle of hell should be reserved for people with poorly adjusted headlights, and an even more tortuous one for twats that drive with their fogs on.
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dragstaar
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PostPosted: 01:12 - 13 Dec 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
HIDs are excellent, but I'm strongly of the school of thought that if you do decide to go fir the cheaper conversion option, you MUST MUST dip them, and angle them properly, They ought not to light up then entire road, but they are good when it comes to lighting up a few metres in front of you nice and bright so you can see all the shyte and potholes on the roads.
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colin1
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PostPosted: 01:56 - 13 Dec 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Fitting HID is just an expensive way of dazzling people. If you want to be selfish, just drive/ride everywhere with main beam on. However don't blame me, if people cant judge the distance away you are due to being dazzled.
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MarkJ
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PostPosted: 10:36 - 13 Dec 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
I have HIDs on my bike, but bought a proper projector headlight so I have a proper beam cut off with no dazzle. I had them before in my reflector headlights and changed them out again as the beam pattern was crap.

Headlight washers:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f3/Headlightwasher0003.gif/220px-Headlightwasher0003.gif
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0l0dom0l0
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PostPosted: 18:31 - 13 Dec 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
herulach wrote:
0l0dom0l0 wrote:
I bought some xenon bulbs for my bike. They were identical to normal bulbs, just the colour was different.

I went for 6000k with a blue filter, and they were really white and did do a better job than the heap of shit that was on there before. Its always easier to see things with white light than yellow light.

Don't go for anything more than 6000k though, it starts getting stupidly blue and just looks crap.

If your lights are good, and you only want to change the colour, buy some xenon bulbs off ebay. I used a company called xenonuk. For the £10 its defiantly worth it. Try that first before you go spending millions on HID kits.


Your 6000K lights output less light than a non tinted bulb, this is an indisputable fact, the blue filter blocks a significant amount of energy leaving the bulb. Blue light appears brighter due to the way your eye works, however, it is actually harder to see things under.

I share your frustations with the fazer's craptacular headlights, although the headlight mod together with Philips Visionplus/Osram Nightbreaker bulbs vastly improves things. I've also rewired my loom with heavier gauge wiring to get about an extra volt across them (Output of halogen lamps is proportional to V^3).

Apologies for the OT rant, but I've just got in from a couple of hours on the motorway, and I honestly think theres a special circle of hell should be reserved for people with poorly adjusted headlights, and an even more tortuous one for twats that drive with their fogs on.


Yeah if you have a bulb that outputs the same amount of light and stick a blue filter on it then obviously your going to loose some output, but if the bulb itself is brighter then actually it is possible that it outputs more light. Also it was going to cost me £40 for the bulbs you recomend. It cost me £10 for both the h4 and h1 + a spare for each and the sidelight + a spare. I was happy with it. Next time I would go for the 4500k with no blue filter and then they would be pretty bloody good.

The problem with the fazer is not just the bulbs but the reflectors are crap. Its almost impossible to Aim anything.
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