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rac3r
World Chat Champion



Joined: 04 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: 15:09 - 12 Dec 2010    Post subject: This looks cool... Reply with quote
https://cgi.ebay.co.uk/YAMAHA-tzr250-reverse-cylinder-/120656496587?pt=UK_Motorcycles

It was in one of the ads at the bottom. Tell me more!

(ms51ves? Laughing )
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cloric_tzr
Brolly Dolly



Joined: 14 Mar 2010
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PostPosted: 16:15 - 12 Dec 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Very Happy lush quite a goodbike from what i gather. ive got a tzr 125 can be very demonic at times (in a good way). so im guessing the 250 will be just as ace. ive alwaysed prefered the rgv 250. not sure if they are as reliable as the yamaha. i think the yama tho is rarer. if i had the ash id buy that. theres a vid on you-tube of a tzr 250 being followed round the track by a gsxr 1000r!. i was plesantly suprised by the 250's performance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ekyfy4XxLvs&feature=related

while looking for that vid i came across this!!! haha

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKjUi1J2jhI

thts how ii ride my 125 everywere!!! ahahaa

2stroke mania
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The Artist
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Joined: 06 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: 17:11 - 12 Dec 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
CHR15 wrote:

im sure someone on here had a yellow one a while back.


rd400 I think. Was sexy.

EDIT: Found it

https://www.bikechatforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=2037241
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c_dug
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Joined: 04 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: 17:53 - 12 Dec 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
As above the reverse cylinder is where the put the carbs at the front and the exhausts at the back.

The video of the TZ250 vs the GSXR is a TZ and not a TZR, the TZ made about 90bhp and weighed not much over 100KG, it is not a road bike.

TZ250
https://www.tz250racing.com/2003TZ250/PRESS/images/tz250.jpg

TZR250
https://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc313/askiaust/2ma-4.jpg


TZR250 3MA (reverse cylinder) as you can see the exhausts exit under the seat.
https://kr250.org/tzr/TZR_25_big.jpg
https://www.siegertyamaha.com/MotorradVerk/9070.jpg
https://p1.bikepics.com/pics/2008/06/24/bikepics-1331314-800.jpg
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TQ
Trackday Trickster



Joined: 17 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: 11:40 - 13 Dec 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
The Artist wrote:
CHR15 wrote:

im sure someone on here had a yellow one a while back.


rd400 I think. Was sexy.

EDIT: Found it

https://www.bikechatforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=2037241


I work with the guy who built that and he just so happened to walk into my office when I was reading this thread.

He's very modest about it saying it's not all that even though he built the frame from scratch.

I love it and couldn't believe it when he sold it so cheap.
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MarJay
But it's British!



Joined: 15 Sep 2003
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PostPosted: 11:47 - 13 Dec 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
It IS cool, but I can see two pretty major problems with it.

1.) Its on a Q plate meaning you'll find insurance will be astronomical. Not to mention that it is an import.

2.) Its a TZR reverse cylinder. Parts are phenomenally difficult to source as they were never imported officially into the UK.

It will, however, be a great bike to ride when sorted. If you can find a way to get parts it could be ace. However, I don't think you will and I think it'll end up being a very expensive moneypit. Still, if I had the cash and the room I'd consider it... but even though I tend to go for these underdog type bikes, I think that logic would still rear its ugly head in the decision making process and I'd laugh it off as a bad deal.
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chris-red
Have you considered a TDM?



Joined: 21 Sep 2005
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PostPosted: 12:52 - 13 Dec 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
What is the beneift of revers cyclinders, better exhaust gas flow?
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MarJay
But it's British!



Joined: 15 Sep 2003
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PostPosted: 13:31 - 13 Dec 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
chris-red wrote:
What is the beneift of revers cyclinders, better exhaust gas flow?


Yeah, and inlet pressure and so on. Its supposed to provide a straight line for the gas to flow through the engine. Some reverse cylinder bikes also have reverse cranks too, but I'm not sure on the TZR. Its also supposed to provide a better weight distribution as the engine can be carried lower in the frame and stuff like that.
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DrDonnyBrago
World Chat Champion



Joined: 03 Jan 2010
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PostPosted: 13:49 - 13 Dec 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
I've wondered why bikes aren't reverse cylinder anyway, seems silly to reroute air to the back and exhaust gases out of the front?

Can't seriously just be an issue of space?
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DrDonnyBrago
World Chat Champion



Joined: 03 Jan 2010
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PostPosted: 14:18 - 13 Dec 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
CHR15 wrote:
Quote:
I've wondered why bikes aren't reverse cylinder anyway, seems silly to reroute air to the back and exhaust gases out of the front?


bacuase if you ran air filters right near the front wheel and wanted to use the bike in the rain, all the water would be spraying into the carbs.


also, you would have hot exhausts running under the seat / right next to the petrol tank

and would have to run a strange shock linkage, like that one posted.

and no room for the battery on most bikes cos it sitting in the path of the exhausts


I can see why they may be issues with our current range of bike designs, but if they were factored into the intial design none of them are exactly unsolvable. There must be a better reason.
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Kickstart
The Oracle



Joined: 04 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 14:27 - 13 Dec 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hi

Think the reverse cylinder TZR250s had a bit of a problem with reliability and only being sold for a very short time there are not a great deal of spares around (unlike UK TZR250s which are fairly common)

DonnyBrago wrote:
I've wondered why bikes aren't reverse cylinder anyway, seems silly to reroute air to the back and exhaust gases out of the front?

Can't seriously just be an issue of space?


Think it is largely. Not really any space to put an airbox with decent length intakes in front of the engine (and the airbox and intake lengths are critical to getting decent power), and moving the engine back to provide that space would take a load of weight off the front and probably make it difficult to get it to handle acceptably.

All the best

Keith
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Kickstart
The Oracle



Joined: 04 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 14:39 - 13 Dec 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
CHR15 wrote:
thing is, why do cars have clutch, brake, accelerator in that order?


At one time not all cars did. No doubt confuses the hell out of people in an emergency (and I have heard a story of my step father driving a rather old car into a 5 bar gate many years ago as they pedals were in t a different order).

CHR15 wrote:
or 1 is almost always top left on a h pattern box?


Good reasons not to do that though. 2nd to 3rd is commonly used, so better to have those in line, with the less commonly used 1st off on its own (bottom left often). Quite a few sporty cars have gearboxes with 1st a the bottom left (and maybe reverse at the top left to confuse people).

All the best

Keith
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G
The Voice of Reason



Joined: 02 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 14:48 - 13 Dec 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
The current YZF450 motocross bike is reverse cylinder.
https://www.motocrossactionmag.com/Main/News/THE-LONG-HISTORY-OF-REVERSECYLINDER-ENGINE-DESIGNS-7056.aspx

Note in the picture how the exhaust has to curl around in a cork screw to give it extra length.

On the gearbox thing - think I've had a car with reverse in every position. Current car is far left and up, van is far left and down and in the past had far right up and down.
My 5 speed truck has first in a different place if I remember.

A more interesting item for recent history might be switchgear - older Japenese cars had the indicator/light stalk on the right, which seemed to make sense for a right hand drive car as you could flick the indicator on/off while changing gear. Newer ones seem to have moved to the left - presumably to conform to the Left Hand Drive norm.
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Kickstart
The Oracle



Joined: 04 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 14:52 - 13 Dec 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
G wrote:
A more interesting item for recent history might be switchgear - older Japenese cars had the indicator/light stalk on the right, which seemed to make sense for a right hand drive car as you could flick the indicator on/off while changing gear. Newer ones seem to have moved to the left - presumably to conform to the Left Hand Drive norm.


Think there was an international standard brought in about 30 years ago concerning where things were on the stalks, putting indicators on the left and wipers on the right. Most ignored it for ages though.

All the best

Keith
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DrDonnyBrago
World Chat Champion



Joined: 03 Jan 2010
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PostPosted: 15:19 - 13 Dec 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
G wrote:
A more interesting item for recent history might be switchgear - older Japenese cars had the indicator/light stalk on the right, which seemed to make sense for a right hand drive car as you could flick the indicator on/off while changing gear. Newer ones seem to have moved to the left - presumably to conform to the Left Hand Drive norm.


Indeed, my car has indicators on the right (97 corolla). It's very handy tbh, can't see why you'd want them on the left on a right hand drive car.
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MarkJ
World Chat Champion



Joined: 11 Apr 2006
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PostPosted: 15:36 - 13 Dec 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
I had an 07 Mitsubishi Shogun last year and that had indicators on the right too.
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