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Are these Bikes learner Legal?

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Matty944
L Plate Warrior



Joined: 13 Dec 2010
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PostPosted: 23:40 - 13 Dec 2010    Post subject: Are these Bikes learner Legal? Reply with quote
So Guys Its gotten to that point where I can finally Buy My first Bike I have saved around £2500 but don't intend to spend the lot on just the bike after searching on the Auto traders Used Bikes I picked out a couple I liked the look of. The first is a 2010 Kawasaki KLX 125 and the Second is a 2002 Yamaha DT-R 125 the problem is it doesn't give me any Info about the bikes being learner Legal or Not. you Guys

Any help from you Guys would be Much appreciated thanks. Smile
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MattJ
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PostPosted: 23:49 - 13 Dec 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
If you are wanting to move onto a bigger bike fairly soon, don't spend anywhere near that amount of money on a bike. Spend about 500 up to 800 quid if you want something better than average. Spending a couple of grand on your first bike is not a good idea. Get a cheap bike and after a while sell it for about the same as you bought it. That way you can spend your couple of grand or so on a nicer bike, by that time you might have even more money too.
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Glenben92
Nearly there...



Joined: 01 Jul 2010
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PostPosted: 00:43 - 14 Dec 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
MattJ wrote:
If you are wanting to move onto a bigger bike fairly soon, don't spend anywhere near that amount of money on a bike. Spend about 500 up to 800 quid if you want something better than average. Spending a couple of grand on your first bike is not a good idea. Get a cheap bike and after a while sell it for about the same as you bought it. That way you can spend your couple of grand or so on a nicer bike, by that time you might have even more money too.


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Teflon-Mike
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Joined: 01 Jun 2010
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PostPosted: 00:45 - 14 Dec 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Much as I applaud the centiment, I dont agree with MattJ.
when you are starting out, buy as good as you can afford.
Last thing you want os a wobbly, unreliable heap under you, doung stuff it shouldn't, when you dont know what you are doing, let alone whet the bike should!
Starting out, give or take depending on crcumstances, just like if you were looking at getting a car, FIRST thing should be to prioratise getting your driving lessons and test sorted, passing your test and getting a full licence.
Motorcycle is the most dangerouse motorised vehicle on our roads, YET its the ONLY form of motorised transport we let unqualified numpties out on, unsupervised, on thier own!
You dont say how old you are, or what you want out of your biking, BUT.
£2.5K would buy you a brand new CBF125 or YBR125, probably with a CBT course chucked in for free, and some riding kit, and leave you change for tests.
That would do the job you want very well, but reselling shortly after, you might take a big hit in depreciation.
alternatively, if your over 21, you could avoid 125's all togther.
a Grand of your budget would get you a DAS course, and tests, and let you go looking for a big-bike straight away, where prices are lower and you get a heck of a lot more bike for your money. Remaining £1500 could easily get you a tidy 500 twin, with far more performance than any of teh sporty 125's, plus tax, insurance and some riding kit.
But, learning on a 125, is a good way to go abot it, and taking CBT then road training, in weekly lessons is a very good way to learn, letting you practice on your own bike between lessons, so you absorb leasons slowly in manageable chunks, and have time to make sense by practice between lessons.
£200 would get you an 8 week CBT & Road Training course, of a one day CBT then 7 lessons on the road after, which in most cases gets people to test standard, and does a great job of prepering them for test. Not 100% garantee, but 1st time pass rate of course trained students is about five times higher than intensive trained students or DIYers.
If you go that route, you only need a 125 for two or three months, until you dump your L's.
As such its a stepping stone, a training tool, no more.
KMX or DT125's are desirable 125's and have a premium attached to thier price, becouse they are notionally Learner-Legal.
BUT, budget £400 to a traing course and tests, then get a 2nd hand YBR or CBF in good tidy condition, from a dealer, or well inspected by knowledgeable peer, privately, for between £800 and £1500, you are in pocket by over £500 or more, for insurance and riding gear. (Dont buy more than you need, before CBT, instructor will give you best advice on choosing kit)
Dealer bought 125 commuter will be more expensive than private sale or older 125, but reletively new, relatively unabused, and dealer prepared, you should have a lot of confidence that its a good bike that will be reliable, and useful, and isn't going to have buckled wheels or bent forks or anything (Risk with more exiting Learner-Legals, more so the older they are)
BUT, three to six months down the line, you should be able to sell it and get MOST of your money back.
And with a licence in your pocket, and £1000 ish back ut of your 125 commuter, plus any savings carrioed over from buying it, you can go look at MUCH better VFM 'big-bikes'.
and if dirt-bikes like the KMX or DT are what rosks your boat, well, that money will buy you a heck of a lot better 250, thats maybe a tad older, but almost certainly less abused.
But the really important thing is, you'll have the chopice of ANY bike (within appropriate licence restrictions) but more, the training to be safe on it, and get the most out of it.
CBF or YBR might not be all you want out of a bike, certainly not as adventurouse or as much 'fun' as a DT or KMX, but end of the day, its just a stepping stone.
What you sacrifice in style and exitement, is very little, and only for a short while. Benefits are a much better bike to ghelp you learn, and be able to get FAR bigger rewards stepping up to much more stylish, mush more exiting machines, very soon.
Yes, you CAN do it on a £500 Learner-Legal, BUT, learner legals lead hard lives, and command a premium price, and you stand a much better chance of getting a better bike, that will work better for you, and give you a much better start, looking a little higher up the market, especially if you have the money to do so.
And, ecconomically, just that little bit higher up the market, on buy-price can actually work out a tad more ecconomical, when you factor in re-sale value, and likely maintenence.
'Cheap' 125, that needs a bit of maintenence and costs a chain and sproket kit and some tyres in your custodian ship, or which doesn't run too good and proves to need new ignition, might actually cost you more to own, and not work as good or be as hassle free, as a slightly more expensive bike, that for the time you have it, does everything you ask, doesn't develop any gremlins, and which you can sell on, probably for near what you paid for it.
But which ever way you go..... prioratise training and test, over buying a bike, and prioratise useability and condition over style and or performance.
And if you need any encouragement, just think, it need only take a few weeks, and you can be on a propper big-bike..... thats cost you less, works better, goes faster, and that your training allows you to use to the full, laughing at your mates that have blown thier wad on over-priced, under-performing, over-abused Learner-Legals, thinking they are the clever ones, blowing up thier engines in misguided attempts to 'tune' them, for an extra couple of bhp they aren't allowed to have, and probably dont even get!
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 01:30 - 14 Dec 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
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Buy a cheap bike, if it's knackered you're still hard pressed to lose more than the depreciation on a newer one.

Or if you really have £2500 in your pocket and don't specifically want a 125, pay for training for a test and skip buying a 125 altogether.
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Azonicben
Could Be A Chat Bot



Joined: 22 Aug 2007
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PostPosted: 02:02 - 14 Dec 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Teflon-Mike wrote:
stuff


Don't fall into my trap. Buy a shitter cg. I bought new for nearly 3k, absolute waste of time. If I'd have saved up I'd be on an 08 gsxr not an 04, I still haven't shifted the 125 and it's worth less every day. Get a cg,rxs but don't buy new. If you buy a dogged cg for £400 two years later it'll still be worth £400.
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Ingah
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Joined: 10 Apr 2009
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PostPosted: 04:17 - 14 Dec 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Azonicben wrote:


Don't fall into my trap. Buy a shitter cg. I bought new for nearly 3k, absolute waste of time. If I'd have saved up I'd be on an 08 gsxr not an 04, I still haven't shifted the 125 and it's worth less every day. Get a cg,rxs but don't buy new. If you buy a dogged cg for £400 two years later it'll still be worth £400.


Equally don't fall into my trap - i've easily easily paid far far more for my "old and cheap" (i thought i was being sensible) CB500 in repair after repair (yes it's not the same bikes as you're looking at, but it's one of those bikes that people tell you to buy a cheap version of to save money), than if i'd gone and bought something really nice and shiny and better (or possibly just the right machine). I quite simply bought an old, abused one (not that it seemed so bad - 14 years old, looked good, 45K miles...). And looking back, if i'd been offered the bike for free (i can't believe i paid actual money for this machine to be this bad over the following months/years Laughing ), i probably would've just taken it home and used it purely for donor/spare parts. Yes, that bad.

So personally, suggest you go for condition, and service history/proof of care. Because i for one have paid the price (in convenience, as well as the money and frustration) of not paying so much attention to the former as i should (i will never believe a dealer again. Never), and not caring about the latter.
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fliolly
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Joined: 09 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: 10:51 - 14 Dec 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Azonicben wrote:
Teflon-Mike wrote:
stuff


Don't fall into my trap. Buy a shitter cg. I bought new for nearly 3k, absolute waste of time. If I'd have saved up I'd be on an 08 gsxr not an 04, I still haven't shifted the 125 and it's worth less every day. Get a cg,rxs but don't buy new. If you buy a dogged cg for £400 two years later it'll still be worth £400.


I bought a brand new 09 ybr125 for £1800 on 0% finance, £99 deposit and £56 a month, rode it for a year (1700 miles) learnt a bit of road craft, had fun getting the hang of things knowing it was not going to cost me a penny and didn't have to worry about MOT's, repairs and replacing anything. Sold it after 11 months for £1500 paid off the remanding finance and paid for my test with what was left.
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Teflon-Mike
tl;dr



Joined: 01 Jun 2010
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PostPosted: 17:27 - 14 Dec 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
pilch wrote:
I bought a brand new 09 ybr125 for £1800 on 0% finance, £99 deposit and £56 a month, rode it for a year (1700 miles) learnt a bit of road craft, had fun getting the hang of things knowing it was not going to cost me a penny and didn't have to worry about MOT's, repairs and replacing anything. Sold it after 11 months for £1500 paid off the remanding finance and paid for my test with what was left.
Thumbs Up
So, brand new bike. Completely hassle free. Did everything it should, and nothing it shouldn't, so anything that didn't feel right was something you were doing wrong, not something wrong with the bike. Came with a warranty, so if anything did go wrong, you took it back.
Cost of ownership £300 over a year.
That's EXACTLY my point.
A £300 CG, that barely deserves an MOT, and has had ten or more numpty owners thrashing, crashing and neglecting it for ten years, might not work out that cheap, if it needs loads of work to fix stuff that makes it keep breaking down, and you cant get more than scrap value for it at the end when it breaks down.
In the mean-time, wobbly onld bike wont be doing you any favours learning to ride, and the hassle they give, when you aren't familiar with bikes and thier needs, can make it a very unenjoyable experience.
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Teflon-Mike
tl;dr



Joined: 01 Jun 2010
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PostPosted: 17:37 - 14 Dec 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Relentless wrote:
CG ..... well lauded .. but if buying one .. you still want a reasonable serviced bike ... Thumbs Up Smile
.......................................................................................

Oh no, not another 'Cant go wrong with a CG' comment... though at least qualified by the 'want a reasonably serviced bike' comment.

Yeah. The CG125 is a pretty sound bike. BUT beware bikes that are the victim of thier own reputation!

Most were sold new to schools, and had a different numpty on them every day, and were sold on before they started getting expensive to run! Usually to more numpties that paid over the odds for them, believing they 'couldn't go wrong with a CG - indestructable they are'.....

Any-one contemplating a CG needs to search e-bay to check the relative prices. You pay a premium for the inflated reputation of a CG. Then they need to search the work-shop forum to find out just how fair that reputation is!
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waffles
World Chat Champion



Joined: 04 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: 19:10 - 14 Dec 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
pilch wrote:

I bought a brand new 09 ybr125 for £1800 on 0% finance, £99 deposit and £56 a month, rode it for a year (1700 miles) learnt a bit of road craft, had fun getting the hang of things knowing it was not going to cost me a penny and didn't have to worry about MOT's, repairs and replacing anything. Sold it after 11 months for £1500 paid off the remanding finance and paid for my test with what was left.


This is somewhat similar to what I did.

Buy sensibly, sit on some bikes and take them for a test ride if you can. The bikes listed in the opening post are learner legal and both fairly new, I take it you are after the trailie/dirtbike look? If so you need to make sure that they haven't been ragged around so look them over carefully and make sure that they sound good with no weird rattles or knocks. See if any bodywork or plastics look newer than others which may indicate that the bike went down.

If you take care of your bike you should make your money back on it when you sell.
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Teflon-Mike
tl;dr



Joined: 01 Jun 2010
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PostPosted: 19:55 - 14 Dec 2010    Post subject: Re: Are these Bikes learner Legal? Reply with quote
Matty944 wrote:
The first is a 2010 Kawasaki KLX 125 and the Second is a 2002 Yamaha DT-R 125.
It doesn't give me any Info about the bikes being learner Legal or

Oh, yeah, answering original Q: 2002 DT, is eight years old. I'd very much doubt that a 'sporty' 125 has survived that long and NOT had some 17 year old trawling the forums for info on how to de-restrict it. almost 99% garanteed that it will have been muggered about with. whether its actually found any more power or not is another question. But most people that buy DT's specifically get them becouse they believe that they can de-restrict them just by popping a washer out of an exhaust and clipping a wire in the speedo!
KLX, being less than a year old, more likely to have been un-molested. More valuable bike, possibly still under warranty, more owners are less inclined to mugger in the first year, and its not a DT, so pottentially theres a lot more chance that its not been as messed with, by a very large margin.
BUT there's no garantee. You have to ask the seller.
Look for things like after-market exhausts and evidence of non-standard wiring, or snipped wiring, etc. and research what the de-restriction 'tricks' are to discover if any-ones made such attempts.
But as said, personally, I'd avoid either, and look for something like a YBR125, for a few months to get test done, then if you want a Trailie, something like a KLX250, or a DR350, or Yamaha XT350. Pretty sure they are all 33bhp complient. Make more power than a de-restricted 125 Two-stroke, as standard, and basically are a lot more bike for your money.
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Rogerborg
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Joined: 26 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: 20:11 - 14 Dec 2010    Post subject: Re: Are these Bikes learner Legal? Reply with quote
Teflon-Mike wrote:
if you want a Trailie, something like a KLX250, or a DR350, or Yamaha XT350. Pretty sure they are all 33bhp complient.


But likely not the 0.16kW/kg power to weight limit. I think that's vanishingly unlikely to be a problem, but it's as well to be aware of it.
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Rowey
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PostPosted: 13:35 - 15 Dec 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Everyone can tell you something different based on thier opinions. So to save you the time I'll just tell you my experience. It'll be different to others experiences and opinions and may be different to yours.

I skipped the 125's completely. Why? You ask. Simply because it worked out cheaper and more practical to spend the money I had saved on getting my full license sorted.

After weeks of research I did a bit of maths taking into account, availability or 125's, inflated cost of 125's, questionable maintenance of first bikes, insurance on CBT and insurance with a full license.

It worked out roughly the same for me to do a DAS course then buy and insure a 250-500cc commuter/aging sports/sports tourer compared to doing a CBT and getting a decent 125.

I was very happy with this choice. I had a more capable bike than a 125. A full license to upgrade to a better bike later on. I had more on road instruction. And finally, pillions to scare, no spacky L plates and motorway adventures.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 15:35 - 15 Dec 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Teflon-Mike wrote:
pilch wrote:
I bought a brand new 09 ybr125 for £1800 on 0% finance, £99 deposit and £56 a month, rode it for a year

Cost of ownership £300 over a year.


£99 + (12 x £56) = £771, which is £50 more than the total I spent to put a new crated Chinese-branded 125 on the road in 2009, including delivery, first registration and road tax. I could have just left it in a ditch and still lost less than the cost of owning that YBR for a year.
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Kickstart
The Oracle



Joined: 04 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 15:51 - 15 Dec 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rogerborg wrote:
£99 + (12 x £56) = £771, which is £50 more than the total I spent to put a new crated Chinese-branded 125 on the road in 2009, including delivery, first registration and road tax. I could have just left it in a ditch and still lost less than the cost of owning that YBR for a year.


But the guy who paid that monthly then sold it for £300 less than he paid for it. With no interest in the finance the £471 extra he had paid off was his own money to do with what he wanted.

All the best

Keith
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chris-red
Have you considered a TDM?



Joined: 21 Sep 2005
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PostPosted: 16:17 - 15 Dec 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Teflon-Mike wrote:
pilch wrote:
I bought a brand new 09 ybr125 for £1800 on 0% finance, £99 deposit and £56 a month, rode it for a year (1700 miles) learnt a bit of road craft, had fun getting the hang of things knowing it was not going to cost me a penny and didn't have to worry about MOT's, repairs and replacing anything. Sold it after 11 months for £1500 paid off the remanding finance and paid for my test with what was left.
Thumbs Up
So, brand new bike. Completely hassle free. Did everything it should, and nothing it shouldn't, so anything that didn't feel right was something you were doing wrong, not something wrong with the bike. Came with a warranty, so if anything did go wrong, you took it back.
Cost of ownership £300 over a year.
That's EXACTLY my point.
A £300 CG, that barely deserves an MOT, and has had ten or more numpty owners thrashing, crashing and neglecting it for ten years, might not work out that cheap, if it needs loads of work to fix stuff that makes it keep breaking down, and you cant get more than scrap value for it at the end when it breaks down.
In the mean-time, wobbly onld bike wont be doing you any favours learning to ride, and the hassle they give, when you aren't familiar with bikes and thier needs, can make it a very unenjoyable experience.


My RXS was 18 years old when I bought it, it had 30 something thousand miles on it. Barring damage from it being pushed over twice. It needed nothing, I changed the gearbox oil and air filter and had to clean up the indicator switch other than that it was perfect. I did 8k miles on it in a year.

It cost £250.
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Rogerborg
nimbA



Joined: 26 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: 16:28 - 15 Dec 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kickstart wrote:
Rogerborg wrote:
£99 + (12 x £56) = £771, which is £50 more than the total I spent to put a new crated Chinese-branded 125 on the road in 2009, including delivery, first registration and road tax. I could have just left it in a ditch and still lost less than the cost of owning that YBR for a year.


But the guy who paid that monthly then sold it for £300 less than he paid for it. With no interest in the finance the £471 extra he had paid off was his own money to do with what he wanted.


That's the second time today you've corrected me. If you keep making me look like a tit for no better reason than because I've been one, I am going to have to punch you in the thro^W^W^W^W buy you a drink, sir! Wink
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Kickstart
The Oracle



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PostPosted: 16:35 - 15 Dec 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hi

No problem.

Although to be fair if he had crashed the YBR and left it in a ditch then he would have been substantially worse off.

All the best

Keith
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rob_scott92
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PostPosted: 18:25 - 15 Dec 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
I think it all depends on circumstances really.

I learnt a lot from my Gs125 but thats only because i had someone there to show me whats wrong and whats right. It only cost £250 so its definitely the cheaper option if you've got someone with the know-how to help you.

If i didnt have anyone to help me, buying new would've been the best option Thumbs Up Although i wouldn't like to spend over £1500, it is only a 125 Shocked
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