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timboellis
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PostPosted: 15:49 - 21 Dec 2010    Post subject: Jump starting Reply with quote

Can i jump start my bike with a car as i assume they are both 12v?
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Skudd
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PostPosted: 15:55 - 21 Dec 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes and you can do the car from the bike. Done it loads of times.
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timboellis
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PostPosted: 15:58 - 21 Dec 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

cool thanks for that as just tried to start the bike just now just not turning over assume it is frozen solid will wait a few more days and try again once it is not below 0
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 16:20 - 21 Dec 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skudd wrote:
Yes and you can do the car from the bike. Done it loads of times.


I presume you mean bike from car! I wouldn't be too keen to try and start my landrover from my bike Laughing
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 16:22 - 21 Dec 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes you can. BUT. Do not do it with the cars engine running.

This is in case the voltage regulator on the car alternator is set to a higher voltage than the bike one (doesn't have to be by much). As soon as you connect the car to the bike, the bikes regulator will then try to regulate the car alternator output down to the level it is set to.

A car alternator puts out a LOT more power than a bike one which can result in the bikes regulator overloading and going pop very quickly.

Conversely, a bike starter motor draws very little power compared to a car one. You should be able to crank a bike over for a long time without running the car battery down past the point where it still starts the car.
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pinkyfloyd
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PostPosted: 16:24 - 21 Dec 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yup. I've had to do it once. Then I invested in one of these:

Battery jump starter

And had to use it once and she started with no problems.
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Skudd
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PostPosted: 16:39 - 21 Dec 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:
Skudd wrote:
Yes and you can do the car from the bike. Done it loads of times.


I presume you mean bike from car! I wouldn't be too keen to try and start my landrover from my bike Laughing


No I mean car from bike. I used to start cars from my Africa twin.
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Darth
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PostPosted: 08:40 - 22 Dec 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skudd wrote:


No I mean car from bike. I used to start cars from my Africa twin.


+1 Jumped my old MR2 off my bike at the time on several occasions with no problems. Sure it aint ideal and i pulled the leads off as soon as i could but both vehicles survived! Thumbs Up
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Teflon-Mike
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PostPosted: 11:58 - 22 Dec 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:
Skudd wrote:
Yes and you can do the car from the bike. Done it loads of times.


I presume you mean bike from car! I wouldn't be too keen to try and start my landrover from my bike Laughing


Lol! You have put an image in my head! I used to have an 109"SIII, that was Expedition Prepped. Had twin tanks (2002, when Diesel was <80p/l it cost £150 to fill!) and twin 120Ah batteries..... I now have an image of some-one offering me a Jump-start and standing there with the jump-leads through the passenger door, as they wheel up a CG125!

Not too hard to imagine; Christmas, I think 2002, I was having electrical trouble. Turned out to be one of the P-Clips holding the alternator wiring in the engine bay had corroded through the alloy of the wing, and let the wire drop so it occassionally touched the exhaust manifold, which slowly melted the insulation, and caused intermittent short..... Took ages to fault find, being an intermittent, but being a deseasil, would run without electrics.... only when lights went on, drew from battery, & with twin 120's, and minimal electrics, it would run for ages, until you discovered you had no juice!

But, one winter, many years ago, My XR2's battery was 'on the way out', and regularly starting it on the leads of the VF1000!
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Paxovasa
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PostPosted: 13:59 - 22 Dec 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
Yes you can. BUT. Do not do it with the cars engine running.



Bull, that battery will only take what it needs.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 16:10 - 22 Dec 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paxovasa wrote:

Bull, that battery will only take what it needs.


Well please yourself. It's not my reg/rec.

It's not about the battery charging. If you connect a bike battery to the car charging system with the engine running, it'll charge it fine. It's about the fact that the bike battery is still connected to the reg/rec when you're jump starting.

Cars usually have a field coil alternator. They regulate voltage by the varying the amount of power sent to the field coils. If the voltage is low, it sends more power to the field coils and ups the output.

Bikes usually have a magnetic alternator. They produce a certain power for a certain rev speed and the regulator dumps any excess

So, say the car alternator is putting out 15v and the bike reg/rec is set to dump over 14v. If you connect them up with the car running, the bikes reg/rec will try to regulate the car alternator to 14v. The car alternator will up its output to compensate for the voltage drop (you'll hear it happen, the engine will rev up) and the bike will continue to dump it.

Eventually the zennor diode will break down.
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I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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Paxovasa
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PostPosted: 17:00 - 22 Dec 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Never had a problem with jumping a bike from a car when the engine is running, and I have done it a good few times.
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pinkyfloyd
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PostPosted: 17:19 - 22 Dec 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had steak for tea last night and I bet I could have jump started that from a bike Laughing
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Hockeystorm65:.well there are childish arguments...there are very childish arguments.....there are really stupid childish arguments and now there are......Pinkfloyd arguments!
Teflon-Mike:I think I agree with just about all Pinky has said.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 17:37 - 22 Dec 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paxovasa wrote:
Never had a problem with jumping a bike from a car when the engine is running, and I have done it a good few times.


I didn't say it happens every time. I said it CAN happen. All depends on the difference between the two voltage regulators.

car voltage > bike voltage = problem.
bike voltage > car voltage = fine.
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I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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Martay
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PostPosted: 19:35 - 22 Dec 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

I stopped to help a bloke on a bike on the side of duelly. It was some form of custom thing he'd built himself, and apparently it had a dicky alternator and the battery had gone flat, offered him a jump start, left my car running. Connected the leads to the battery of the bike + car, and everytime the ignition was turned on, the leads would get so hot the plastic covering would smoke! Eventually he gave up, after totally melting my jump leads. I dred to think what it done to his electrics Laughing
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GeneralXcepti...
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PostPosted: 11:50 - 23 Dec 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jump starting a 1st generation Monster from a car has been known to fry the CDI units.

They really don't like being started from cars, but that might just be a quirk of mid 90's Ducati's.
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 12:30 - 23 Dec 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

I have jump started bikes from cars loads of times, engines running or not.

Can see where Stinkwheel is coming from, but would also expect it to take quite a while to over heat anything in the regulator / rectifier, especially with the car at idle / low revs where the voltage won't be up to much.

All the best

Keith
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 20:38 - 23 Dec 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

GeneralXception wrote:
Jump starting a 1st generation Monster from a car has been known to fry the CDI units.

They really don't like being started from cars, but that might just be a quirk of mid 90's Ducati's.


I think this needs to be put into context.

Merely running the engine on a pre 96/97 model year Ducati you ran the risk of frying the electrics.

Never heard of one frying the CDI only the reg/rec and wiring loom.
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timboellis
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PostPosted: 20:56 - 23 Dec 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well the bike in question what i was enquiring about is a Triumph Trophy 1200

Also i just tried it now and it runs over and get a backfire after a few turns before the battery goes flat.

I assume I have nothing to worry about just need to get it connected up to a healthy battery and should be fine?

It is still freezing here and still snowing, would it be worth just waiting until the snow goes before i try again?
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 21:13 - 23 Dec 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

More of a worry on the older Triumphs is wrecking the starter clutch by trying to start it with a dodgy battery.

All the best

Keiht
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St0rmer66
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PostPosted: 01:00 - 24 Dec 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kickstart wrote:
Hi

More of a worry on the older Triumphs is wrecking the starter clutch by trying to start it with a dodgy battery.

All the best

Keiht

Got to watch that on my RSV too... sprag clutch. Expensive fix if it goes! Shocked .
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GeneralXcepti...
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PostPosted: 10:06 - 24 Dec 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

sickpup wrote:

Merely running the engine on a pre 96/97 model year Ducati you ran the risk of frying the electrics.

Never heard of one frying the CDI only the reg/rec and wiring loom.

I'm familiar with the meltdown of the output wires from the stator to reg (too small gauge wire + corrosion = mess), but when I bought my winter project Monster, the coils, HT's and CDI's weren't attached to the bike - they were handed over separately.

The seller had removed them and previously lent them to someone to help diagnose what was wrong with his bike. The CDI units on the other bike were at fault and the last thing he'd done was try to jump start his bike with his car.

Could have been a coincidence (maybe the CDI's were already knackered?) but the Duke forums have similar stories so I'll stick with my optimate just in case.
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timboellis
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PostPosted: 12:07 - 24 Dec 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

well just treied to take the battery out again and manged to get it out very tight fit so got it in the house on charge hopefully there was just not enough juice in it to start it.

Will give it a quick charge just to see then will put on a slow charge if it works if not i'm stuffed
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 12:49 - 24 Dec 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

GeneralXception wrote:
The CDI units on the other bike were at fault and the last thing he'd done was try to jump start his bike with his car.

Could have been a coincidence (maybe the CDI's were already knackered?) but the Duke forums have similar stories so I'll stick with my optimate just in case.


I love the way people jump to conclusions.

Chances are his CDI had failed due to corrosion on the terminals, he had killed the battery trying to start it then tried a jump start.

Unless the car was running 24v electrics which is highly unlikely the 12v battery in the car is unlikely to have damaged the 12v electrics of the bike.

I've used 210amp boosters to start Ducati's many times without a problem but that would have been 15 years ago when they were new. Now you are playing with 15 year old electrics that were crap when new and are now falling apart at a rapid rate and people search for an excuse of why they fail. How many home electrical products last 15 years of use before failure?
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 14:10 - 24 Dec 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
Yes you can. BUT. Do not do it with the cars engine running.

This is in case the voltage regulator on the car alternator is set to a higher voltage than the bike one (doesn't have to be by much). As soon as you connect the car to the bike, the bikes regulator will then try to regulate the car alternator output down to the level it is set to.


Pretty sure this cannot happen for a few reasons.

1. As far as I am aware REG/REC's still use a diode rectifier system that can only take in power from the alternator side.

2. Considering an alternator will put out between 45-60v ac a mere 15v dc will hardly effect a reg/rec.

3. As you jump start with the live cable connected to the battery the power wouldn't go through the reg/rec anyway
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Old Thread Alert!

The last post was made 14 years, 290 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful?
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