Bigger boys bikes

[dgo1212]

Possibly a few of these threads but don't want to revive an old one, basically I am in the process of doing my direct access, have done theory and am booking mod 1 next week,also all the lads at work including the gaffer have either done or are doing their direct access this year, there's only 6 of us and of the 6 only me and one of the others have any experience on a bigger bike, this hasn't stopped them all buying 600's though, there is an R6, ZX6, Daytona 6something, and a GSXR 600 up to now so figured I should throw a Honda into the equation, however whilst looking at the insurance groups it seems a cbr600 is group 14, as is a cbr1000. I have an older cbr in mind as I don't have the cash to be buying a newer one, would something like an H reg cbr600 keep up with the other 600's mentioned which are all 2000 onwards or should I be brave and go for a 1000cc, will the insurance difference between the 2 be slight or immense as although they're both group 14 I find it unlikely they'd cost the same to insure?

[pinkyfloyd]

If your doing DAS then go for what ever bike you want. You'll have the experience of riding the 500 on the course to know how quick these machines can go and how to control them.

People say the 600 series of bikes are a great first bike simply because they are the mid range of bikes since they dont really do the 500's anymore.

Look at it this way. You want a thou so you buy a 500 to break yourself into the bigger bike feeling only to sell it and buy the bigger one. Whats the point? Provided you ride within your capabilities there isnt much difference between the 500 and the 1000cc and you'll get used to it fast enough.

I was given a loan of a bike for free after I passed my test to run around on until I got my first big bike. I wanted a V Twin so thanked my friend kindly and tore around on his 750 for a few months and saved my pennies to buy the bike I wanted. I now ride around on a 1000cc. Think it only took 4 months from passing my test to owning the thou.

As for insurance. I'm sure you'll pay more for a 2009 CBR600 than I did for my 99 VTR 1000. It all comes down to your age, the bikes age, the area you live in.

As for the age of the bikes making a difference. Yes it does but the GSXR750 I ran about on would still give todays bike a good enough run for their money on the roads. Might not be as fast as them but it wouldnt be left in the dust.
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Teflon-Mike:I think I agree with just about all Pinky has said.

[Alex A]

[N cee thirty]

98' r1.
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'00 Aprilia RS50 > '92 Honda CG > '99 Yamaha Fazer > '91 Yamaha RXS > '79 Suzuki X5 > 01' Honda Cg > 07' Honda Cg > 82' Kawasaki Z200 > suzuki gsxr 400 gk73a > honda vfr 400 NC30 Mod 2 Passed 09/06/2011

Jewlio Iglesias wrote: I actually did vote BNP once

[c_dug]

I went out with MinhDinh on my 1993 CBR600F, he was on his ZX6R b1h. I wasn't getting left behind, in fact off the line we were neck and neck to speeds that you do not need to be doing.
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I am a bellend, I am a man of constant sorrow, I am a gummy bear, I am a rock.

[Alex A]

He wasn't riding it properly.

Or he weighs 8 stone more than you do.

And you don't 'need' to do any speeds. You'd certainly want to, though
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Current: Ducati Panigale R / Ducati Streetfighter S / Suzuki GSX-R1000 L5

[Seb]

I've seen guys on CB500s keep up with people on modern 600/1000 sports bikes on single carriageway roads. It's down to bravado and skill rather than the bike you are on unless you are only into motorway/dual carriageway blasts.

I'm firmly of the opinion that starting out with a lighter low powered bike is better for your confidence and will make you a better rider in the long term. Kind of depends on what you want out of your bike as well as the sort of riding you enjoy, a crusty old 500 isn't going to give you the face bending acceleration that plenty of people are after, nor do they tend to look the part
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2010 Triumph 1050 Sprint ST

[Alex A]

I half agree with you Seb. Power isn't everything. But the chassis is. I'd prioritise the latter over the former any day. And a CB500, whilst gutsy enough to match most things for speed on a B road, really doesn't have a great chassis.

It's much easier to have bravado and skill when you've got the hardware that rewards and encourages it.
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Current: Ducati Panigale R / Ducati Streetfighter S / Suzuki GSX-R1000 L5

[Rogerborg]

Dude, be a man and buy whatever bike your mates tell you to buy. Only total girly faggots make their own decision about what bike is right for them. Christ, buy some fudge-packing piece of crap like a 500 that only does 120mph and 0-60 in 5 seconds and you might as well be demanding a tampon machine in the womyn's bathroom.
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Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

[Seb]

I don't think it's that simple though, case in point, I was faster on my GS500 than my SP1 across the moors and most other local B roads. As far as I can tell there were three reasons for that....

First and foremost, the budget chassis and forks had a shitload more give on the GS (I swear blind I could feel the forks actually flexing when countersteering through sharp switchback corners). Naturally on a smoother track or nice fresh open A road the SP1 simply drove on through whilst the GS was wobbling and tieing itself in knots, but over more typical bumpy narrow roads the frame and suspension soaked up more of the knocks leaving me less likely to start worrying about the state of the road surface.

Secondly the lack of power means you simply don't have to concentrate on the throttle nearly as much, the SP1 could easily overwhelm the rear tyre especially if it wasn't up to temperature, whereas the GS500 had absolutely no chance with a BT045 on the rear no matter how hamfisted I was

Lastly, theres the expense in crashing, every little slide or slip on the SP1 and the first thing that was running through my head was the fact that my fairings were pretty much unreplaceable, the GS on the other hand would likely take little more than a trip to the local breakers and a crate or two of beer. Given that my own well being didn't factor into the equation I naturally tended to push harder on the GS500

Assuming they are not overweight barges, bumpy potholed roads are the great equaliser for naff bikes imo
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2010 Triumph 1050 Sprint ST

[c_dug]

[c_dug]

Thinking about it, I've never asked him if he was going for it, but it certainly didn't seem like he was holding back at all. I'll PM him a link to this thread and we'll see.
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I am a bellend, I am a man of constant sorrow, I am a gummy bear, I am a rock.

[Alex A]

Seb: All of that's your reticence, and nothing to do with the relative capabilities of the bikes. It's perfectly understandable, but simply a mental restriction, not a technical one.

Get over that, and I find it hard to accept that an SP-1 would not best a GS500 over a twisty B road. Granted, the very firm ride of the SP-1 isn't best suited, but it's not technically a drawback unless you're talking about seriously broken up roads, where a crosser/SM, with long travel suspension, would arguably have the upper hand.

If it were a competition and nothing else mattered, I'd take the Tuono over a middleweight commuter over twisty B roads any day. I'd take the SP-1 too. In fact, I love twisty, bumpy, tight B roads. And the SP-1 didn't hold me back in thrashing around those roads as quickly as possible. Not quite as good as the 98 'blade for those roads, though.
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Current: Ducati Panigale R / Ducati Streetfighter S / Suzuki GSX-R1000 L5

[Alex A]

[c_dug]

I was certainly going for it, just not sure if he was, you seem pretty adamant that he would leave me for dust so perhaps he wasn't. I've sent him a link to this thread so we'll see what he says

Not sure what the weight difference between us is, but I am 14.5 stone so if he wishes to comment on that too then he can do



edit: And it was more or less all dual carriage ways, I don't doubt the 636 is better handling.
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I am a bellend, I am a man of constant sorrow, I am a gummy bear, I am a rock.

[Frost]

A CBR6 will keep up with any road traffic. The only time it will start to fall behind is when you're not riding it right, or the speeds have gone beyond road speeds and reached the kinds of lean angles and riding that will lead to trouble when done away from a race track. The only real reason i can see for going for the bigger bike is if you're lazy. On a litre bike you can just leave it in a high gear and crack the throttle when you want to move, but on a 600 you'll want to knock it down a gear or 2. Besides that it mostly seems to just be bragging rights

[MinhDinh]

Hey, well most of the time I wasn't going for it if I am honest. Mainly because it was my first time on that road and I happily stayed behind followed c dug.

I would say I gave it some about twice, and once was when I missed second gear, and I kinda do blame it on my cramp because I never miss gears. Basically I was use to short rides to work which was 1 mile away, and recently I started a new job and ride 10 miles and with stretching, it helps me.

The cramp on my left leg did affect my riding in terms of gear changes and moving around the bike for cornering, but I would say c dug is not a slow rider either.

Note though, I am not a fast rider by any means and weigh 92 KG right now, however I have gone faster over a tonne in a straight for sure, but only on roads I know such as the A12 near my where I live.





Could c dug beat me in a race if we gave it some? Maybe on corners but I know my bike has beaten my friend's GSXR 2010 in straights and think I could have most 600's.
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Hit the G spot.

[MinhDinh]

Oh man now I feel I need to give it some next time! LOL.

But c dug is a good rider for sure. He left me behind most of it, especially the B road, he is being modest, yes I did stay behind purposely as well, but his distance at times were further than I wanted too.

I don't want to use any excuses though, cramp or not, the bike is capable of faster acceleration which I know for sure because I have done it, but pretty much up to red lining.

Only times I really tested it compared to another bike was with my friend's Gixxer. I always have him off the lines to silly speeds, and he only found out recently it was a 636 instead of 599 and he kinda laughed and said no wonder why!

Think I have somehig to prove now! :p
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Hit the G spot.

[c_dug]

I'll be interested to see how much slower my bike is then if you go flat out

Those lanes on the way home aren't really a fair comparison, I know them like the back of my hand, I'm pretty certain I could beat almost anything down there, I've given a few fast cars a run for there money on that road when I was riding my 250.

I wouldn't say I am a quick rider anyway, not on usual twisty roads, I spend far too much of my time doing the same 10 mile journey to work and back to push my limits and improve my riding
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I am a bellend, I am a man of constant sorrow, I am a gummy bear, I am a rock.

[MinhDinh]

I'll let you have a go on it.

Dunno if you remember when I missed a gear, that was pretty much as fast as it was in first, but with my bloody cramp, quick gear changing didn't go right so I took my time. I think I had some distance then, but not much, so maybe I am a crap rider.

You rode that B road pretty nicely!
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Hit the G spot.

[c_dug]

If you're good to swap for a bit then I am too


You can have a play at making loads of noise
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I am a bellend, I am a man of constant sorrow, I am a gummy bear, I am a rock.

[MarJay]

If you buy any sort of 1000cc bike it'll be a mistake. You'll end up scared of it and won't want to ride it.

The only way to gain confidence is to start small. The absolute largest fastest bike I'd reccommend for a new rider is a 600cc sportsbike. Bear in mind that they can still do 0-60 faster than 95% of cars and do 160mph. If that isn't fast enough for you then you've either got small penis syndrome or you're Valentino Rossi in disguise.

Seriously, there are so many threads with my opinion on this subject it is unreal but in actuality I think people who do DAS Miss out on the experience of riding smaller bikes. This is probably because small cars are generally yawn-worthy and perhaps people try to make some sort of correlation between cars and bikes... I don't know. Small bikes on the other hand are mental fun. To some extent, the smaller you go the more fun you have (to a point).

I had great fun last year racing my Honda C90 in the Moped Mayhem races... perhaps a C90 isn't quite enough for the road, but my 20hp MZ is amazing fun considering how much it cost to buy and run.

Going back to the car analogy... would you have had fun in a Jaguar XJ6 after passing your test? Sure you'd probably look cooler than your mates, but you can't chuck the car around, it costs a lot to run and you can't park it. Apologies for using an analogy that I said was useless, but I think it makes the point in this case. An old CBR1000 is fast but heavy and stable - a bit dull in corners. a new CBR1000RR will kill you.

If I were you, I'd go for a Honda Hornet 600 or a Yamaha Fazer 600 or something like that. You'll still be able to keep up with your mates, but you'll have a lot more fun and find it a lot more manageable. On the basis of ease of use, you might even find you can go quicker than them because the bikes are a little easier to ride.

Don't buy the 1000, you'll regret it.
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British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.

[DrDonnyBrago]

As per Marjay:

The CBR1000F is a lardy tourer really, very fast but far too fat and heavy. The older CBR600F, at the time was the daddy of the 600cc sportsbikes, it wasn't until the R6 and new breeds of GSXR600 that the CBR was dethroned.

I bought a newer 600 CBR as my first bike; any 600cc bike with a sporty revvy engine will scare the arse off of you when you first try it (in a good way). I honestly cannot see the point in 1000cc bikes for the road for any rider, let a lone a new rider. A 600 is faster than anyone really needs on the road and if I were to do it all again, I'd get either a naked 600 so that the wind noise discourages silly straight line speeds or even a 500 that I could rag the nads off whilst standing a chance of remaining alive and out of prison.

Hornet6/Fazer6/CBR6/even a CB500 as always come top of the list for newby bikes.

[drzsta]

all i'll say is Yamaha Thundercat
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Current Bikes - BMW S1000RR ‘17 & KTM 690 SMC-R ‘12

[Jim Mc]

I wouldn't be put off by the group 14 business, I bought a newish 600rr and the insurance for the bike is high, but only around 700.