Etiquette: Buying Bikes via auction/BIN on eBay

[Ingah]

I'd better preface this by saying i don't trust eBay, and i certainly don't trust human nature, particularly where vehicles are concerned (In my experience, many human beings 'forget' their ability to tell the truth when selling one!) And the last time i trusted a so-called professional, to tell the truth about the bike he was selling, it backfired so horribly that i'm still paying financial consequences over 2 years later. The liar. And also, that i'm now fully capable of checking over a bike for defects, and will always do so.

So with this at the forefront of my mind, along with my never having money to throw away needlessly, i've never bought anything over a few quid second hand off eBay (especially not a bike), only through face to face sales through the classifieds. What especially puts me off on the bay is the phrases sellers use such as "you're bidding to buy, not to look" etc etc.

Thing is, i'm increasingly seeing bikes on the bay, that i want, but i don't want to be ripped off, and can't always justify spending hours and £££ to see the bike before bidding an auction that i may not even win anyway (so many people seem to overbid after all). I've missed out on a few interesting bikes this way, as by the time i've realised that it was going to go for a reasonable price this time, it's too late to arrange a viewing (especially with auctions, where you don't know what the bike's going to go for until mere minutes or seconds before it ends), and i'm scared of clicking the "buy it now/bid" button, for fear that the seller could be lying and/or "not mentioning" certain major faults (not talking a forgotten scratch here - more things like the headbearings being notched, or the chain and sprockets being fooked - on a cheaper bike these faults can soon and easily make them very expensive, very quickly) and that eBay may back them up and try to make me buy the dishonest machine.

I wanted know what the etiquette for these situations is. Obviously if it's local, there's no real excuse for not looking first, but if it involves spending hours to get there and back, i don't feel its reasonable to expect me to show up to basically check the seller's honesty, before even bidding. The sort of bike i'll be buying will have enough information to make an informed choice in my opinion- if the seller is telling the full story. Problem of course, is going to come if i win an auction for a bike that essentially is described as good all round, a couple of minor faults mentioned, and then i turn up at the seller's to find that the head bearings are gone, the chain is hanging off when it wasn't in the pictures, the indicators don't work, etc etc etc (i read the listings thoroughly, so there's no chance of me "missing" it in the listing - it'll be a deliberate omission). What happens then? I'm obviously not going to willing to pay for their piece of crap at that point, because the seller has, in my opinion, been dishonest.

I guess the question is, would eBay back me up, or would they expect me to buy the liar's crap? Do you guys think this is acceptable, or am i supposed to take these quite major financial hits on the chin (i don't feel its my fault people can't be honest...). I'd feel pretty crap tbh, and try to compromise with the person if i felt they weren't taking the piss too much (e.g. deduct the estimated parts price from the total due), but i don't want to be made a mug of again.

Or am i really expected to ask about every individual component / check to have reasonable grounds to refuse to buy based on condition? (if so i can imagine i'm going to be greatly annoying some people )
It's just that "good condition" to me (as almost every advert says), means no major faults apart from those specified.... (irrespective of the machine's age that some sellers seem to be trying to use to lower expectations, "good" to me means, "good"! - it doesn't mean a list of expensive-to-rectify-faults-that-i-just-'forgot'-to-mention-and-it's-your-fault-i-lied-so-blatently-you-should've-driven-across-the-country-just-to-look-at-my-piece-of-crap-machine)
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-- Ingah

[hmmmnz]

buyer beware, that said if there is any known problems the seller has to disclose it,
but who's to say if the seller knows about any problems,
its the nature of auctions, you may or may not get a good deal
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I kick arse for the lord
Wiring Diagrams BIDNIP it bitches

[tvchimp]

https://files.myopera.com/draggysicyfire/albums/635234/boredcat.jpg
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Bike: Currently Bikeless... Gahh

[GREENI3]

If you feel the seller has misrepresented their item and have not described everything, then you can 'open a case' where you can state your claim to ebay and give reasons why you believe the seller has been dishonest.

If found in your favour, then any feedback the seller has given you, will be revoked.

After all, when looking at an auction, it does state 'seller assumes all responsibility for this listing'. If they have been dishonest with their item, then it is their responsibility to put things right.

[Kickstart]

Hi

Bid to buy. Take a look before you bid or not, that is your choice. No different to buying something through the local paper (except you hope with an auction to get it for less).

If it is hopelessly badly described then sure make a thing of it, but have a reasonable expectation of what it really is like, but a clapped out chain and tyres are hardly the end of the world, and the cost you pay for not going to look first.

All the best

Keith
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Traxpics, track day and racing photographs - Bimota Forum - Bike performance / thrust graphs for choosing gearing

[colin1]

If you win an ebay auction, you are committed to buy the item, but if you turn up to collect and find a fault that wasnt mentioned, why should you buy it ?

Who cares if you get bad feedback.

A few years ago, after I passed my test, I tried out a few bikes. One of which had a serious fault that I only spotted by having a test ride, and looking for it using advice given to me by bcf.

Check everything you can think to check, using a pre-prepared check list is probably a good idea. Taking someone else along who knows about bikes may also be a good idea.

I bought a car off ebay, and checked lots of things before I handed over the money. I never thought to check the offside passenger door, and it doesnt open. I never checked it, so in my mind I have to accept that I bought it as seen.

If I had checked it and found it wasnt working, I would have either walked away, or offered a lot less as the seller hadnt mentioned a fault that they certainly knew about.

Also try to judge the character of the seller. If something doesnt feel right, if they seem edgy, don't ignore that, look a bit harder to find the fault. A lot of people sell a vehicle if they find that something expensive needs fixing, although I think this is more with cars than bikes, as often bikes are just toys.

Where possible, go look at ti before placing a bid, although that's not practical if the item is far away, it might be worth waiting for something to appear that's local.
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colin1 is officially faster than god

[0l0dom0l0]

Unfortunately, Ebay and similar will always be full of people that are dishonest. If your serious about buying it then you will travel a few miles to see it. There has been loads of examples recently.

I would always want to meet the previous owner before buying a bike anyways.

I think from a sellers point its going to be frustrating too. I can totally understand the fact that you don't want to buy the bike after its been miss-advertised but you did have the option to view it before the listing ended? I think if someone came along and started telling me I hadn't listed stuff (I would always be VERY honest with listing, as that's how I am as a person) I would actually be quite offended.

With terms of bidding, that's what ebay is all about. Yes people overbid, but that's only if they really want something. Most of the time you get stuff on the cheap. So what if it goes over your price, you simply wait for another one the same to come along.

I can totally understand your frustration though as from a buyers point of view its really annoying.

[The Tot]

Well,

I bought my last 2 bikes as a last minute blind snipe! I always budget another £500 on top of what I'm going to spend on servicing and getting it to square 1. Get the bike fresh and give it a clean slate. Buyers aren't looking to look out ridiculous sums of money by giving it a service and T&T before they sell it though are they! I did it TWICE and I kinda of regret it because it's like having £200-£300 taken out of your pocket form nothing!

Just like colin said, ring the seller up, email them. Judge their character. If they sound decent enough and polite enough, then chances are they're being honest. Likewise, if you get a bloke who sounds pretty young and claims " Yeah, I got all dem tings from demon tweeks" and brags about how fast he goes on it, then walk away.

Everything is sold as seen. When I've listed my bikes on ebay and have viewers, unless they ask specific questions, then I don't tell them. So it's up to the buyer to get the seller to divulge the details. Again phone conversations and seeing the bike in person works wonders. If you like the persona of the buyer, then I'm more inclined to be very truthful to make sure they're aware of what's going to crop up. But if the guy's being a prick and taking liberties with offers, the of course I won't tell them that the rear shock needs doing!

In my opinion swings and roundabouts, but a lot of bargains to be had!


Look at Greg (instigator) for example - he goes through bikes like I go through spunked boxers! It takes a little bit of nouse but for the time I've known him, he's always had decent bikes because he buys cheap and sells for the same price... with need of servicing! Great if you have insurers that don't mind you chopping and changing. I think he must have had about 20 odd sports bikes during the last 6-7 years? This is all on ebay ... mostly last minute snipe bids! Who cares if he gets a dog every so often!

Bid to buy and remember that. I also can't stand weasley buyers who don't take every opportunity to ask the right questions or take the time to view... your loss. A lot of the time, I MAKE the effort to show the bike to THEM if they're local.
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The Tot 2019 Z1000SX - 2007 R1
Never argue with autism

[dodgydog]

If you win the bidding, then go to pick the bike up and it isn't as described.

Walk away.

I did it, went to pick a bike up, advertised as "first time starter", the guy took 10 minutes to get it going, then it was missing on one cylinder, the paint job was pretty bad, the chain was rusty.

Just be honest with the seller, tell him he has misrepresented the bike. If nothing else, it may make him think twice in future.

They can't force you to buy it.



Dog
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I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realise that what you heard is not exactly what I meant

[Ichy]

Some people are just better off staying away from Ebay. I've sold a fair few bikes on there and never had a problem. I try to be as honest as possible with the listing, maybe too honest at times but I've never suffered for it. If some bloke turn up and then started mouthing off about some minor fault then I would tell him to leave and refuse to sell him the bike. I don't need the hassle.

I've also brought a few bikes off there, several as last minutes snipes without a problem. I don't go in thinking I'm going to get a mint bike, I just bid at what I think is reasonable for a bike that may need some work. Knowing what you are looking for is a necessity. One of my last buys was a last minute bid on a badly listed bike. Valued at around £2400. I won it for £1400. Takes a lot to be wrong before I make a loss on it.
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[G]

I try and ask questions beforehand covering most of the stuff I would check when looking over a bike, then stick a snipe in.

When I didn't ask first and the TRX had a rattly cam chain I didn't make a fuss as it didn't specify anything good/bad in this area.

[Frost]

Surely when you bid on a bike, given it's age and mileage they specify what can reasonably be wrong with it without misrepresenting it. So if it's an 09 plate blade with 3000 miles on it and you get there to find the engine sounds like a bag of nails, then it's not what the advert implied. If it's a 10,000 mile RS125 you assume it needs a top end rebuild and the bike being smokey or down on power wouldn't be a valid reason for walking away.

Basically you can't make assumptions about things. If they say they have "Done the engine" you ask for specifics, otherwise you assume that means they've adjusted the tickover or something.

So basically if your buying a mint condition nearly new bike you can expect high standards. If you're buying a 22 year old sports 400 you can expect 22 years of wear and tear, scuffed panels major service overdue etc etc unless they state clearly otherwise.

As a general rule i only buy if i know and trust the person, even just through a friend of a friend. Or the bike is local enough to go take a look at.

[Rogerborg]

I've always viewed eBay listings as just another advertisement. Contact the seller, view the bike, make a cash offer on the spot.

If they're adamant that they'll get more by waiting, fair enough, but don't get emotionally invested or hang around. Keep looking around to see if a better bike comes up before the auction ends, and be sure to bid less than you offered up front to compensate yourself for the inconvenience.

The thought of bidding sight-unseen on a used vehicle seem like queuing up for a bareback with a prostitute in dark alley. Let someone else risk rubbing their wedding tackle on that shagged out old bike.

If you really must do it, I would have the seller complete an explicit checklist of components. And not "Are you aware of any faults", but with explicit "No fault [ ] / Fault [ ] + Details" checkboxes.

Not much use, but better than nothing and it might make them think twice about exactly how much they want to lie about the bike's condition.
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Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

[Livefast123]

I've bought a fair few bikes and cars off ebay without seeing them but the trick is all in judging the seller.

Why are there no close up pictures?
Why are there vague details of the bike?
Are there contact details?
Does the seller seem polite and passionate about the bike?
Can the seller answer specific quaestions about the bike?

Picked up my Comet for £600 on ebay, they had it listed as classified with best offer. They had refused an offer for £750 then the listing ended so I put in a cheeky email and bobs your uncle. I did phone them first to discuss the bike and they seemed decent apart from riding Harleys

There is nothing wrong with Ebay as long as you are as careful as you would be when buying a bike normally.
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Current ride - Yamaha MT-07

[outlaw]

i wont buy a bike from ebay
last time i tryed i smelt a rrat with price on a harley few weeks back

should have watching him run when i would pay to i hpi`ed it
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there can be only one

[outlaw]

[multijoy]

[Hockeystorm65]

Bought a coupe of cars and one bike all unseen via ebay without mishap. In fact the bike was an absolute bargain. Always do the licence and history check through ebay and insist on paying by paypal. That gives you maximum protection and effectively insures you against the value of the purchace if it turns out to be a ringer.

However, if you are OCD on minor scuffs, stone chips, and chromework......I would advise keeping away from anything other than a face to face sale even if ebay was the 'advert' that brought your attention to it. in the first place.

...there are no greater concentration of dishonest chancers on ebay than there are anywhere else in society IMHO.
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Good judgement comes from experience.....experience comes from bad judgement!

[truslack]

[Kris]

I've BIN'd three bikes on eBay so far without viewing first.

The first was my SV which was described accurately and had quite a few pictures on the listing, as well as detail pictures showing a dent in the tank. I turned up, met the guy who showed me the bike and let me start it up and look over it to check it was as described. I was very happy and paid the guy the moolah and off I went. Happy days.

Second bike was a Pan Euro in Manchester and we'd agreed a partial swap with my Bandit. The ad included a couple of pics but no real detail so after extensive e-mail questioning I was a little happier. Rode the 280 miles there and it was a fucking dog. The 'new' paint was a rattlecan job with overspray on the tyres. The front brakes were binding and the panel gaps were awful. The 'powdercoated swingarm' was black hammerite applied with a 6" brush... I told the guy it wasn't as described, drove home and he gave me £20 to stop me moaning to the bay.

Third bike was another Pan Euro up North with another set of long distance pics. I was expecting to have to replace a fair bit because the price was quite low so I hopped on a train (5 hours ) and the guy picked me up from the station with a folder full of paperwork. Was quite happy after thumbing through the receipts ... that was until I saw the bike. Torn seat, cracked trim and exhausts that were actually rusted through and only held in by the gasket and one bolt.. I couldn't face the train home so I told him I wouldn't pay the asking price and knocked £200 off. Rode it home in the end.

I would say only bid without viewing if you are prepared to spend £££ on it and the price is cheap OR make sure there are close-ups of the whole bike and e-mail exchanges with the seller describing the bike in detail. No-one can force you to go through with the deal if the item is not as described.
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www.prisonplanet.com

[MarJay]

I think the short answer is that you just have to take the risk. I've bought a few bikes without viewing them first and I think only one of those was a shed, and I knew it could be a shed when I set up the bid. I have never been to see a bike which hasn't broadly been as described.

So far I have bought (from ebay without viewing first):

Kawasaki KE100 - a bit of a dog, but I knew it would be.

GasGas Pampera - The guy delivered it, and I sold it two years later for the price I paid for it without ever spending anything on it except oil and petrol.

FZR400RR - Was cheap, as described but needs a service. I was very lucky with this.

VFR400 NC30 - was cheap but needed a bit of work. Wasn't listed very well, but was broadly as described.

I have bought the following from an ebay listing outside of ebay because it was badly listed or whatever:

Triumph TT600. Paid £1600 for a 2002 TT in 2005. Got a bargain, probably the best condition bike I've ever owned. The bloke listed it under 'spares and tools' and wondered why he didn't get any joy with it.

Triumph Speed Four - Paid £2k for it in 2006 for a 2004 bike. Was a lovely bike and was mint as described, although I found out later that one of the engine mounting bolts was bodged in. Still worked OK though and was an easy repair.

I think the trick is to look carefully at the pictures, and ignore any listing that does not show the bike from all angles.
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British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F; Cheap project: CBR900RR FireBlade
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.

[Paxovasa]

Go view the bike and either make an offer on the spot or set a limit that you will bid too, unless it is a pig then walk away.

I seen my bandit on ebay, met the seller and viewed the bike. He let slip what the reserve was and I made him an offer (outside of ebay). I used the line that ebay fees would cost him alot more and he would end up with less than I was offering. So I got a bargain and he was better off.
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Suzuki GSF600 K3 (in the fastest colour, black).

[chris-red]

I have no problem buying a bike off the bay, if they say great condition et and you go there and it is a dog, walk away what are they going to do call the ebay police. Ask a load of questions covering all the bases and print the listing out when you go to see the bike. Anything not right mention it.
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Well, you know what they say. If you want to save the world, you have to push a few old ladies down the stairs.
Skudd:- Perhaps she just thinks you are a window licker and is being nice just in case she becomes another Jill Dando.
WANTED:- Fujinon (Fuji) M42 (Screw on) lenses, let me know if you have anything.

[MarJay]

[Livefast123]