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CaNsA
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| Pete. |
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Pete.
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 Posted: 16:43 - 02 Mar 2011  Post subject: |
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Some saddo'll pay miles too much for it and park it in the garden as a 'trophy' I imagine 
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a.k.a 'Geri'
132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good  |
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| CarlosCBR |
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CarlosCBR
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| Posted: 17:10 - 02 Mar 2011 Post subject: |
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| 27cows |
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27cows
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| pinkyfloyd |
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pinkyfloyd
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27cows
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| Posted: 18:55 - 02 Mar 2011 Post subject: |
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Barry Sheene was a legend who rode machines that would kill Rossi in 30 seconds flat. If he wanted to shower in Brut every morning, sleep on a bed of dodo feathers and have his every whim attended to by three Miss Worlds (simultaneously), he was more than entitled 
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| pinkyfloyd |
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pinkyfloyd
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| Posted: 19:15 - 02 Mar 2011 Post subject: |
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I agree bud. Barry was almost as good as Joey. Almost.
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illuminateTHEmind wrote: I am just more evolved than most of you guys... this allows me to pick of things quickly which would have normally taken the common man years to master
Hockeystorm65:.well there are childish arguments...there are very childish arguments.....there are really stupid childish arguments and now there are......Pinkfloyd arguments!
Teflon-Mike:I think I agree with just about all Pinky has said. |
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| kestrel |
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kestrel
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| pinkyfloyd |
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pinkyfloyd
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| Posted: 20:27 - 02 Mar 2011 Post subject: |
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Thats why I said almost as good. 
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illuminateTHEmind wrote: I am just more evolved than most of you guys... this allows me to pick of things quickly which would have normally taken the common man years to master
Hockeystorm65:.well there are childish arguments...there are very childish arguments.....there are really stupid childish arguments and now there are......Pinkfloyd arguments!
Teflon-Mike:I think I agree with just about all Pinky has said. |
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| 27cows |
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27cows
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| kestrel |
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kestrel
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pinkyfloyd
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| mistergixer |
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mistergixer
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| 27cows |
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27cows
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| Posted: 09:11 - 03 Mar 2011 Post subject: |
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| mistergixer wrote: | | 27cows wrote: | Barry Sheene would be turning in his grave to see the kind of pampered twats who are racing these days. |
Would that be the same Barry Sheene who refused to race at tracks (IOM for example) because he thought they were too dangerous, the same Barry Sheene who frequently refused to race because he didn't think he was getting paid enough, the same Barry Sheene who appeared in a rather dodgy Brut advert with 'our 'Ennerey'?
(He rubs it onto his nipples FFS!)
As a racer, Lord Baz certainly had his inspired moments (Silverstone '79, for example), but he never really won that much, and is probably more famous for crashing and then being rebuilt in a Steve Austin-stylee.
Yer Maun Joey is the quintessential road racer IMHO, a list of victories as long as your arm but quiet, humble and unassuming in 'normal' life. IIRC he rated Doohan as the greatest GP short circuit racer. |
Valentino Rossi (and his ilk) aren't fit to walk on the same ground as Barry Sheene. I can't see how Sheene not wanting to die horribly (like Dunlop did) at lethal circuits in any way detracts from his legendary status.
His Brut ads added to his status, they didn't detract from it. People still fondly remember the 'Enery/Sheene/Keegan ads 30-odds years on - how many other adverts can you say that about?
And why on earth wouldn't Sheene want to earn more money, in the days when racers earned relative peanuts and it was the likes of Bernie fucking Ecclestone who used to profit considerably from their talent while the teams worked out of old Transit vans?
Next you'll be saying Bobby Moore was a bit shit because he didn't win any league championship medals  The legendary status of same people transcends mere stats and titles.
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mistergixer
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G
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| Pete. |
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Pete.
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| Posted: 16:29 - 03 Mar 2011 Post subject: |
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I think the best demonstration of Rossi's talent is demonstrated in the way he delivered the goods on the 'unwinnable' M1 Yamaha that no-one else could ride successfully.
Whether it be purely because of his riding talent or his skill to diagnose and give the team vital feedback or whatever, the fact is that his arrival marked a turning-around of the fortunes of the Yamaha race team with four world championships in seven seasons after they had been twelve years without a champion and I'm betting it was no co-incidence.
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132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good |
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G
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| Posted: 16:44 - 03 Mar 2011 Post subject: |
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To be fair, I do believe Yamaha chose that year to make a large investment in their racing . |
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Pete.
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27cows
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| Pete. |
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Pete.
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Posted: 17:47 - 03 Mar 2011  Post subject: |
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You can't stop the progress of technology.
Sheene was a hero of his time, Rossi a hero of his. If you're going to compare two riders of different generations riding bikes of totally different technologies you're going to have to use a better argument than he had 'a certain something'. Sure the bike that Sheene rode was fearsome but if they could have made it as much faster as Rossi's bike of later years was and as much safer too then Sheene would have welcomed that with open arms.
Unless you can come up with lap-times that showed him riding it to a level comparable with more modern, more technologically advanced bikes there's little point making any comparison - you should just accept that he was the best 'of his time' and leave it at that.
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132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good |
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G
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| Posted: 19:39 - 03 Mar 2011 Post subject: |
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| Pete. wrote: | You're right, it couldn't have been cheap taking on a recent two-times world champ.
The M1 was brand new in 2002, that must qualify as a large investment. |
Not just in their rider, but I believe they also decided to really throw a hell of a lot of money at the bike and general team, to make absolutely sure they would be winning.
BMW and David Knight is an example where a team bought an immensely talented winning rider, then entirely failed to back up their investment by giving them the world class support needed.
| Quote: | He had the look, the birds, the lifestyle, and rode an absolutely fearsome bike in the 70s (which I can virtually guarantee V. Rossi would last two minutes on were he ever to race it).
Sheene was and remains a legend and an icon, a hero to whole generation of bikers. I can't believe he's getting slated Shocked |
A) I believe these days it's not considered 'politically correct' to criticise Rossi because he prefers men to ladies.
Otherwise, he's got the character and generally manages to do it without being TOO much of an arse..
Alongside your bet, I'll bet that BS wouldn't hack it in a modern moto-gp race, with everything turned up to 11, relatively. |
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| 27cows |
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27cows
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| Posted: 19:40 - 03 Mar 2011 Post subject: |
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Valentino Rossi is like Schumacher - a machine. He has the charisma of mould. He could win 50 world championships and he still wouldn't be fit to inflate Sheene's tyres.
Granted, these days youngsters do seem to aspire to blandness. They want to ride bland plastic bikes that behave impeccably, handle like they're on rails and are so predictable you could probably fall asleep while riding them.
It's like trying to compare Georgie Best to Cristiano Ronaldo. The latter is supremely fit, a proper athlete, trains hard, has a personal physio, dietitian and probably his own spiritual healer. But clearly Best is best in every possible way, despite his drinking and the like. A legend is a legend. John McEnroe is a legend, Pete Sampras isn't. John Daly is a legend, Tiger Woods isn't. Titles and the ability to monotonously rack up victories don't equate to legendary status.
Comparing Mick Doohan to Barry Sheene would be like comparing Gary Glitter to Jimi Hendrix...IMHO Though I am a bit of a Sheene fan (can you tell ).
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| Pete. |
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Pete.
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| Posted: 19:47 - 03 Mar 2011 Post subject: |
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All your 'legends' are equally renowned for their personal life antics and hell-raising as their sporting talent. They were greater 'heroes' because they made for excellent media so more people aspired to be them for non-sporting reasons.
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132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good |
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| mistergixer |
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mistergixer
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| Posted: 19:51 - 03 Mar 2011 Post subject: |
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| Pete. wrote: |
Unless you can come up with lap-times that showed him riding it to a level comparable with more modern, more technologically advanced bikes there's little point making any comparison - you should just accept that he was the best 'of his time' and leave it at that. |
I recall a test done a while back in Superbike magazine where they put Sheene's GP bike up against a bog-stock Fireblade on road tyres - down the straights there wasn't that much between them, but the 'Blade blitzed the GP bike when it came to braking and cornering. Now, contrast the performance of a bog-stock '90s road bike with the (last of the) 500GP bikes - incomparable.
Personally, i think most of Sheene's appeal was down to his nationality, i sincerely doubt he's revered as a legend outside of the British Isles. A lot of Brits know his name, but i doubt they know much about his record - as a kid all i recall about him was seeing his post-crash X-Rays, and marvelling about the amount of metalwork which held him together.
I would say Rossi definitely has more 'international appeal', and whilst bike racing is still quite a marginal sport in this country*, its appeal is definitely growing and i put a lot of that down to the 'certain something' that Rossi has.
*Rossi reputedly moved from Italy to London because he was less recognised here, and was getting fed up of being mobbed whenever he went out and his GF of the time wasn't too happy about the amount of attractive young Italian women who were chucking themselves at him.
Rossi's appeal to me (and i have to say this has waned in recent years) was his 'comic quality' (the silly outfits and post-race celebrations) and the fact that he clearly didn't take himself too seriously, despite being undeniably shit-hot at what he did - a bit like an Ali of racing. To claim Rossi has the charisma of mould is an entirely unfounded and unjust accusation IMHO.
Ultimately, it's all a bit of an apples vs oranges argument - would Rossi have beaten Sheene, would Sheene have beaten Ago, Hailwood, Reid, Duke, Surtees, Gardner, Lawson etc are all entirely unquantifiable arguments. To draw another parallel with boxing, would Tyson have beaten Ali, would Ali have beaten Joe Louis etc. All entirely unquantifiable, but they make for great pub arguments.
Personally, i'd say Ali would've whupped them all, but then i'm a massive Ali fan.
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 15 years, 31 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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