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No Insurance - you're guilty??

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Bezzer
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PostPosted: 12:14 - 15 Mar 2011    Post subject: No Insurance - you're guilty?? Reply with quote

Hadn't heard of this newish law before, I know you shouldn't be on the road if you've got no insurance but now you're considered guilty of other offences as well because "if you weren't there as you're not road legal it wouldn't have happened".

https://www.thisisstaffordshire.co.uk/news/MOTORIST-FACES-JAIL-NEW-LAW/article-3330175-detail/article.html

All the motorcyclists fault unfortunately but the driver is getting all the shit as he was not insured, this should make the uninsured think again I hope.
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james1988
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PostPosted: 12:20 - 15 Mar 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't agree at all with people being on the road without insurance but fuck me this is a slippery slope to be going down! Shocked
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MaybeGuy
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PostPosted: 12:28 - 15 Mar 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

looks like the guy did a favour to the community. 1 less scrotty tracksuit kid on an RS to worry about.

And from the comments, the family are thick as shit.
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The Artist
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PostPosted: 12:31 - 15 Mar 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

Repost

But yeh, as I said in the other thread. Anyone that thinks that is justice needs their head looking at.

He didn't cause death which is what he is being charged with. He committed an offence, driving with no insurance but the death of the boy was not his fault at all.
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Bezzer
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PostPosted: 12:41 - 15 Mar 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, didn't realise someone had stuck it in the Biking News section Embarassed
https://www.bikechatforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=2798376&highlight=#2798376
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Livefast123
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PostPosted: 12:48 - 15 Mar 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

The rider of the bike obviously went too fast, ran wide and hit a car. He ultimately caused his own death by a riding mistake. However the uninsured, untaxed driver shouldn't have been driving his vehicle on the road because it was illegal.

Two events that came together at the same time to make one devastating consequence. Fate is a strange beast whether you believe in it or not.

I hate uninsured, untaxed drivers / riders as much as the next guy and his being on the road illegally played a part in the guy's death but he did not cause the accident.

He should certainly be charged with the offence of no insurance / tax and the death taken as an aggravating factor to be considered.

Should he be lumbered with the death of a kid..........i really don't know.
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The Artist
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PostPosted: 12:51 - 15 Mar 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

Livefast123 wrote:


He should certainly be charged with the offence of no insurance / tax and the death taken as an aggravating factor to be considered.


I 100% agree

Livefast123 wrote:

Should he be lumbered with the death of a kid..........i really don't know.


No. He is getting blame for a 17 year old riding an RS in a dangerous manner causing his own death. Having that blame on you when it was not your fault must be one of the most horrible things imaginable.


https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/s_to_u/sentencing_manual/causing_death_by_driving_unlicensed_disqualified_or_uninsured_drivers/

Details of the new law.
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Redoko
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PostPosted: 13:24 - 15 Mar 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

This country is going down the pan.
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iooi
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PostPosted: 14:13 - 15 Mar 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Artist wrote:
He didn't cause death which is what he is being charged with. He committed an offence, driving with no insurance but the death of the boy was not his fault at all.


But he did cause the death.

Yes the biker was in the wrong for being on the wrong side of the road.
But had the car driver not being using the car as he should not have been doing. The lad would still be alive.

Ergo, he is responsible for the bikers death.
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chris-red
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PostPosted: 14:15 - 15 Mar 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm in 2 minds about this I must admit, I do like the fact he is getting done for it one less insured driver off the roads, it may be a warning to others not to doing it. But it doesn't seem right blaming him when the kid lost control.
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The Artist
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PostPosted: 14:19 - 15 Mar 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

iooi wrote:
The Artist wrote:
He didn't cause death which is what he is being charged with. He committed an offence, driving with no insurance but the death of the boy was not his fault at all.


But he did cause the death.

Yes the biker was in the wrong for being on the wrong side of the road.
But had the car driver not being using the car as he should not have been doing. The lad would still be alive.

Ergo, he is responsible for the bikers death.


He is getting charged with Death by no insurance. The fact that he had no insurance is NOTHING to do with the boys death. He could have called up his insurance company just before he left and bought some, it would have made no difference. You cannot say he was at fault simply because he was there.
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dogbot
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PostPosted: 14:21 - 15 Mar 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clearly, the CPS believes otherwise.

I don't think he's responsible directly, but it's hard to feel any sympathy for an uninsured driver, either.
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The Artist
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PostPosted: 14:25 - 15 Mar 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

dogbot wrote:
Clearly, the CPS believes otherwise.

I don't think he's responsible directly, but it's hard to feel any sympathy for an uninsured driver, either.


I am shocked this law even got passed. Maybe to make a point.

It is like speeding and then getting somewhere sooner than you would have if you kept to the speed limit and then someone running out in front of your car and them dying then you getting done for it because you sped earlier, you happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.
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dogbot
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PostPosted: 14:30 - 15 Mar 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it's about taking responsibility for the things you do.

The biker has taken the ultimate responsibility for his. The car driver now has to pay the penalty for his actions.

There's nothing to say he'll actually be found guilty of everything he's been charged with, after all. They'd have to prove beyond any reasonable doubt that he was responsible for the death, which will be interesting.

But proving he shouldn't have been driving and punishing him accordingly will be no problem. And he deserves it.
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The Artist
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PostPosted: 14:32 - 15 Mar 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

I fully agree he should get the usual punishment for no insurance e.g. points, fine and ban if he has a history of motoring offences.

I do not agree one bit with a custodial sentence.

I will be following any more reports about this case.
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dogbot
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PostPosted: 14:35 - 15 Mar 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

What's the point of banning him? He'll just drive anyway...
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The Artist
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PostPosted: 14:37 - 15 Mar 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

dogbot wrote:
What's the point of banning him? He'll just drive anyway...


You can't go banging up anyone that commits a crime. What would you do? A big fine should put him off I imagine.
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Bezzer
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PostPosted: 14:43 - 15 Mar 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

dogbot wrote:
There's nothing to say he'll actually be found guilty of everything he's been charged with, after all. They'd have to prove beyond any reasonable doubt that he was responsible for the death, which will be interesting.




He hasn't got to be found guilty, he pleaded guilty so the case itself is over, just awaiting sentence now.
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blurredman
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PostPosted: 15:03 - 15 Mar 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

Time and time again,

If you cannot afford the car you're in, get a Marbella and your insurance will only be 100 quid a year. Less
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dogbot
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PostPosted: 15:07 - 15 Mar 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Artist wrote:
dogbot wrote:
What's the point of banning him? He'll just drive anyway...


You can't go banging up anyone that commits a crime.


Sorry, that wasn't intended to be a "bang him up!" type post - just that I'm not sure a ban will help in anyway.

Bezzer wrote:
dogbot wrote:
There's nothing to say he'll actually be found guilty of everything he's been charged with, after all. They'd have to prove beyond any reasonable doubt that he was responsible for the death, which will be interesting.




He hasn't got to be found guilty, he pleaded guilty so the case itself is over, just awaiting sentence now.


So he has. Well, if he's not contested the charge, what should they do? Surely if they felt there was a case to fight, his solicitor would have advised him to plead guilty to the no insurance charge, and not guilty to the CDBDD charge?

As I've said, personally I don't believe his offense alone is worthy of a custodial sentence... but I still don't see any reason have a great deal (ie, none) of sympathy for him, either.
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chris-red
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PostPosted: 15:45 - 15 Mar 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Artist wrote:
dogbot wrote:
What's the point of banning him? He'll just drive anyway...


You can't go banging up anyone that commits a crime. What would you do? A big fine should put him off I imagine.


The fines are pointless, the are usually far lower than the cost of insurance.


IMO anyone caught driving with no insurance should have their details put into Go Compare, then whatever the cheapest quote is the fine should be double that. Thumbs Up
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iooi
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PostPosted: 15:50 - 15 Mar 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Artist wrote:
He is getting charged with Death by no insurance. The fact that he had no insurance is NOTHING to do with the boys death. He could have called up his insurance company just before he left and bought some, it would have made no difference. You cannot say he was at fault simply because he was there.


Had he have bought ins before he set off on that trip then he would not have been charged with anything, well so long as it was taxed as well, and seen as simply as a victim of a biker exceding his limits.
As he did not have ins. He should not have been driving his car. Thus by his non legal actions he has caused the bikers death. As had he been acting legaly, he would not have been on the bit of road the bikers was using.

Hard I know. But if you do the crime, be prepared to do the time.
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MinhDinh
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PostPosted: 15:53 - 15 Mar 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

Put it this way.

If you do not have insurance, then you should not be on the road.
If you are not on the road, then there may not have been a crash.

Don't get me wrong, when it said Aprillia, I assumed RS125 scumbag too. The kid was at fault but insurance is that important.
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MinhDinh
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PostPosted: 15:54 - 15 Mar 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

iooi wrote:
The Artist wrote:
He didn't cause death which is what he is being charged with. He committed an offence, driving with no insurance but the death of the boy was not his fault at all.


But he did cause the death.

Yes the biker was in the wrong for being on the wrong side of the road.
But had the car driver not being using the car as he should not have been doing. The lad would still be alive.

Ergo, he is responsible for the bikers death.


I would say that another car may have been in his spot.
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chris-red
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PostPosted: 16:05 - 15 Mar 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where will they draw the line.

What about if your MOT is up or your tax has run out.
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