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Ouch!! Holed piston!!

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Strummer1977
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Joined: 23 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: 01:06 - 23 Mar 2011    Post subject: Ouch!! Holed piston!! Reply with quote
Yamaha RD200 CS5e - Holed piston!!! Crying or Very sad
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Howling TerrorOutOfOffice
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Joined: 05 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: 01:09 - 23 Mar 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
Isn't engine damage the coolest thing ever. When it's somebody else's.
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Strummer1977
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Joined: 23 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: 01:11 - 23 Mar 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
Howling Terror wrote:
Isn't engine damage the coolest thing ever. When it's somebody else's.


Well I thought it was best to share!! Laughing
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Rogerborg
nimbA



Joined: 26 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: 02:52 - 23 Mar 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
Howling Terror wrote:
Isn't engine damage the coolest thing ever. When it's somebody else's.


Thumbs Up It's like it's been penetrated by pure awesomeness!
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stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: 02:53 - 23 Mar 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
Now to find out why before you repair it.

Air leak? Ignition too far advanced?
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Strummer1977
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Joined: 23 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: 14:08 - 23 Mar 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
BLUEX5 wrote:
A CS5E and an RD200 are two different bikes. Anyway, taking my pedants hat off - you need to be certain why this happened. If the bike is pretty standard then it'll be an air leak (Intake or base gasket most likely) OR wayward ignition timing. Did you set the timing with a dial / height gauge?


You sir, are of course utterly correct. I stand corrected its a CS5e.

Bike is standard as far as I can see. Only recently purchased. Appeared to have been fully restored. It had recentley had piston and rings as far as I was told.

I believe I had sufficently run it in.

First time I used it on an extended A road run, not utterly thrashing btw but 6000 - 7000 rpm. The above happened. I hadn't detected signs that anything was wrong. Occassionally there was a slight hesitation to pickup if you had been crawling a along at very low rpms, much like a plug getting oiled up. I havent ridden a two stroke for quite some time btw so its possible I missed any tell tale signs, either that or I may just be a muppet !!

As far as I can tell the auto lube was working. It was fully topped up, appeared to be in the pipes leading to the intakes, rear of both exhausts apeared to be slightly oily.

I myself had not looked at the ignition timing, seemed to be running quite sweet. Yes I know I should have checked as a matter of course. Yes I should of had the plugs out sooner ! Hindsight in a wonderful thing!! The other pot looks to be perfect, plug is a nice tan colour. Top of the piston has just started to get a layer of coke on it.

I have got a mechanic mate to hone the bore and it seems to be ok and usable. Its already on 0.50 (50 is stamped on the pistons) oversize pistons. So I'm thinking new piston & rings on the affected side, gap the rings and I should be good to go? I have a gasket set.

Check ignition timing, check for air leaks, somebody suggested removing the auto lube and running on a more oil rich premix?

All ideas / suggestions welcome. Dont profess to be an expert but definatly a two stroke lover. Once I get this going again I can get back to getting my GT380 on the road.

Anybody know where you can get pistons for these in the uk? I see you can on ebay but they are all in the states so obviousley take a while to come.

Thanks in advance
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cb1rocket
World Chat Champion



Joined: 30 Jan 2010
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PostPosted: 14:14 - 23 Mar 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
def. looks like the ignition is too far advance. Which in turn has created a hot spot on the piston and melted it!
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MarJay
But it's British!



Joined: 15 Sep 2003
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PostPosted: 14:36 - 23 Mar 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
Strummer1977 wrote:
Check ignition timing, check for air leaks, somebody suggested removing the auto lube and running on a more oil rich premix?


Don't do this. Its far more trouble than you need. And it doesn't really give you any benefit over a well adjusted autolube system.
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stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: 15:15 - 23 Mar 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
You may need to split the engine and clean out the crankcases. It'll have peppered the small end and crank with blobs of molten alloy.

It's not a lubrication issue. That sort of damage is classic of either running super lean or having the ignition too advanced.

I caught this one just before it hoiled completely:
https://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f216/stinkwheel/piston.jpg
This was caused by the stator plate coming loose and slipping, radically messing up the ignition timing. There were still blobs of molten alloy on the top of the conrod
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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Strummer1977
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Joined: 23 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: 15:18 - 23 Mar 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
stinkwheel wrote:
You may need to split the engine and clean out the crankcases. It'll have peppered the small end and crank with blobs of molten alloy.

It's not a lubrication issue. That sort of damage is classic of either running super lean or having the ignition too advanced.

I caught this one just before it hoiled completely:
https://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f216/stinkwheel/piston.jpg
This was caused by the stator plate coming loose and slipping, radically messing up the ignition timing. There were still blobs of molten alloy on the top of the conrod


Thats very interesting.

I pretty sure your right.

I was going ask about cleaning out the crank cases.
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Owned: 250 Superdream, CD125 Benly, CD200 Benly, Z200, Jawa 350 outfit, CX500, Bandit 600, GY 200 plus other chinese fair. Yamaha CS5e, GPZ 500.
Own: Suzuki GT 380, Loncin JL 250, Yamaha R6
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Strummer1977
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Joined: 23 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: 15:45 - 23 Mar 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
Anybody know if the piston on the Cs5 are the same as used in the RD200?
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Owned: 250 Superdream, CD125 Benly, CD200 Benly, Z200, Jawa 350 outfit, CX500, Bandit 600, GY 200 plus other chinese fair. Yamaha CS5e, GPZ 500.
Own: Suzuki GT 380, Loncin JL 250, Yamaha R6
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FBSF
Nitrous Nuisance



Joined: 23 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: 13:52 - 29 Mar 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
I had a similar thing happen on my RD125LC three times many moons ago - we checked everything - carb, filters, reeds, exhaust.

Turned out there was a hairline crack in the crankcase, that was allowing air into the mixture causing it to run very lean...

Got it ally welded, and all was good. Just a shame it took us 3 pistons and a lot of roadside collecting (me & bike) to work it out...
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Frost
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Joined: 26 May 2004
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PostPosted: 14:19 - 29 Mar 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
Speed hole, makes the piston go faster.
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Strummer1977
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PostPosted: 14:35 - 29 Mar 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
FBSF wrote:
I had a similar thing happen on my RD125LC three times many moons ago - we checked everything - carb, filters, reeds, exhaust.

Turned out there was a hairline crack in the crankcase, that was allowing air into the mixture causing it to run very lean...

Got it ally welded, and all was good. Just a shame it took us 3 pistons and a lot of roadside collecting (me & bike) to work it out...


Got some pistons and rings coming. I'm hoping its an ignition timing/air leak issue but I guess we will see.
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Owned: 250 Superdream, CD125 Benly, CD200 Benly, Z200, Jawa 350 outfit, CX500, Bandit 600, GY 200 plus other chinese fair. Yamaha CS5e, GPZ 500.
Own: Suzuki GT 380, Loncin JL 250, Yamaha R6
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Avora
Renault 5 Driver



Joined: 08 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: 17:03 - 29 Mar 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
FBSF wrote:
Turned out there was a hairline crack in the crankcase, that was allowing air into the mixture causing it to run very lean...


Fear this may be the problem with my AR125 infact, had a look underneath and looks as though one of the many previous owners has had a right field day with the chemical metal. Reckon that could be my air leak problem or should chemical metal seal it well? Its not dangerous, just wont idle without choke under 3000rpm.
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